Free Shipping on All Orders 1-866-764-1801

Vist our Online Store
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 41

Thread: SDA clone?

  1. #1

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    771

    Default SDA clone?

    Just sitting here wondering if anyone successfully clone any of the SDA speakers? considering how rare they're, why not make your own?
    Looking at my 1C now, I can see that it's possible to make it thinner by shaving an in or two on each side, then move the PR to the side or back. Use thicker MDF because my 1Cs feel very hallow when tap on them, unlike Lsi9s.
    also make it all wood all around to make it more wife friendly.

  2. #2

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    The Conch Republic, Key West
    Posts
    1,162

    Default

    There are too many reasons why a speaker is designed just so. Too many variables involved. I had the same question in my mind and found many threads with this same question. MDF is by far the best property at least for the main cabinets, and then use a veneer on the outside. That is for sound qualities. The SRS2 that I have now is MDF, but it does have caps on the top and bottom of real wood so I assume that providing you left the cabinet as it is and simply added caps you would have in view a wood speaker while keeping the MDF design and acoustic properties.
    I think if you simply had crossovers and drivers but no cabinet, it might be ok to try something similar but new, but I wouldn't change preexisting speaker. Right now I am in possession of 1c crossovers, inductors, and some spare drivers. I thought about the same thing in building a similar cabinet and making a 1c pair. Now that I have the srs2 I will probably just find a happy home for my leftover stuff.

    My advice would be to reveneer in nice wood, and do other upgrades besides the cabinets. For instance add some acoustic foam, upgrade crossovers, tweeters, sda cable, etc.

    Check out VR3's sticky thread on upgrading SDA's:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...d-in-one-place!

    Polk Audio SDA CRS+ (4.1TL by Trey, Larry's Rings)-
    SDA SRS2-Parasound HCA1500ax2/1000
    Yamaha xa1000-Celestion SL6S presence,- sl9 surround back
    NHTsuper1's surround
    Nad2700-sub, AdcomGFA-555 -Magnepan SMG
    Parasound 1500pre- Sofia "Baby" tube amp - Monitor Audio Silver RX2
    Marantz 2230/B&Kst140- outdoor B&W/Bose/Parasound/KefC75/c40/Polksub
    Technics 1200mk2
    Gamertag: IslandBerserker
    I am but a infinitesimally small point meeting the line of infinity in the SDA universe

  3. #3

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    758

    Default

    Sounds like a cool idea but I believe others have talked about this and have found that it's harder to do than you would think, something to do with the angle of the front baffle. I know very little about speaker box design so I'm sure others will chime in. I like the idea of an all wood speaker rather than the cloth however. Maybe a nice veneer? Could get expensive I'm sure.

  4. #4

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    771

    Default

    I don't think money is an issue here because I've seen many members here keep making updates to their SDAs. At some points, it's probably cheaper to build from scratch than keep making updates

  5. #5

    Member Sales Rating: (13)

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    The Mars Hotel
    Posts
    31,271

    Default

    There was a member that built his own version of the 1C's. They sounded like absolute crappola.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  6. #6

    Member Sales Rating: (45)

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    NC Foothills
    Posts
    4,637

    Default

    It can be done. Costly, but it can be done.

  7. #7

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Upstate S.C.
    Posts
    646

    Default

    Careful! Before this thread is over I predict you will be condemned for blasphemy!

    My personal opinion however, is that it would be easily possible to recreate the SDA effect in a personal design or custom build. However just getting the SDA effect is only a small part of the equation. Moving passives, changing box dimensions, using newer more up to date drivers, etc, could all be possible and probably effective but when you consider all of those pieces together to match the entire system and design a crossover from scratch to not only match those components but to also integrate the dimensional effect and get a good flat response along with very detailed sound, it could be very difficult and more expensive than finding a good pair of SDA's to begin with. Now if you use all of the original designs and simply build replica cabinets and use OEM drivers and crossover designs, you may could come out to the good.

    I believe your concept is good and modern drivers could even be an improvement (just like the RDO tweets). The cabinets could even be built focusing much more on using anti diffraction methods. Now notice i said "could". Just because you have better drivers and focus on some part of a design that was weaker before does not meant that the "whole system" will be as good as the previous "whole system". I personally would love to try this but unfortunately i do not have the necessary test equipment and or time for the proper R&D.

  8. #8

    Member Sales Rating: (31)

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Long Island
    Posts
    14,790

    Default

    Keep the cabinet dimensions and driver locations/spacing the same, and the crossover won't change. Otherwise you may end up with something that sounds like crud.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

  9. #9

    Member Sales Rating: (1)

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    3,920

    Default

    Even shaving an inch or two off the sides would still make these quite large by today's standards. It would still be about the width of two monitor 70's and Moving the PR would only weaken the low end response. It's in front for a reason. I am not saying it can't be done but you would seriously have to play around to get it right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Smith View Post
    WOW!

    That's like working your way through Katie Perry in order to get to Rosie O'Donnell.

  10. #10

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    795

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nhhiep View Post
    Just sitting here wondering if anyone successfully clone any of the SDA speakers? considering how rare they're, why not make your own?
    Looking at my 1C now, I can see that it's possible to make it thinner by shaving an in or two on each side, then move the PR to the side or back. Use thicker MDF because my 1Cs feel very hallow when tap on them, unlike Lsi9s.
    also make it all wood all around to make it more wife friendly.
    As you can see by my signature line, I like to experiment. Be forewarned that you are going to catch hell and will be told that it won't work. I'm surprised that h9 has not already chimed in to condemn the thought of even doing such a thing. Don't let any of that discourage you. It's normal for that to happen here when you start to think outside the box a little.

    When I presented the idea of using CRS+ internal parts in 10b cabinets here on the forum I was quickly given a tongue lashing filled with unsubstantiated technical reasons why I would never get the SDA sound from that combination, along with a few other comments intended to make me feel stupid for wanting to do such a thing. However, I didn't let that dissuade me from wanting to come up with a hybrid of the CRS+ and 10b that would have the best qualities of both speakers. I think I accomplished that. I have the SDA sound of the CRS+ and the better bass (to me) of the monitor 10b. I've listened to them daily for months now and I'm very happy with them.

    I didn't stumble upon the idea of a hybrid speaker by accident and I didn't just throw a bunch of parts together. I studied schematics for a lot of speakers before deciding it should work. CRS+, SDA2b and monitor 10b speakers have a lot in common and share a lot of the same components.

    I say go for it and build what your vision is of a modern pair of SDAs. I recommend that you stick with the same driver spacing to maintain the SDA sound unless you are able to calculate and build a set of crossovers to match something different. If you like the sound of the bass coming from the side and/or rear of the cabinet go for that too but I personally prefer the PR to be forward facing. It is probably a psychological thing but for me the bass coming from the front seems to have better impact and clarity.

    By all means do it and have fun experimenting. Keep us posted on how it goes.
    SDA 2BTL Sonicaps Mills resistors RDO-198s New gaskets H-nuts Erse inductors Crossover upgrades by westmassguy
    Adcom GTP-450 preamp
    Adcom GFA-555 amp Upgrades & speaker protection added by OldmanSRS
    Pioneer DV-610AV DVD/CD player
    SDA CRS+ Hidden away in the closet

  11. #11

    Member Sales Rating: (49)

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Wyred 4 Sound
    Posts
    11,229

    Default

    TennMan,

    What you did is not even close to what the OP wants to do.. I thought about this sometime ago as well but I didn't want to alter the design I just wanted a better more modern looking cabinet. what the OP is talking about doing is a complete waste of time IMHO!!

  12. #12

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    The Conch Republic, Key West
    Posts
    1,162

    Default

    the worst that you can do is be unhappy with the result. As Tool66 says it may be a waste of time. But, I like experiments and they fail more often than not, but sometimes you come out ahead and are happy. It's a hobby. The naysay advice is because of knowledge, experience, etc and they don't want you to just waste your time but if you know that, then you can also use their advice and knowledge and move forward with more of a chance of success.

    Polk Audio SDA CRS+ (4.1TL by Trey, Larry's Rings)-
    SDA SRS2-Parasound HCA1500ax2/1000
    Yamaha xa1000-Celestion SL6S presence,- sl9 surround back
    NHTsuper1's surround
    Nad2700-sub, AdcomGFA-555 -Magnepan SMG
    Parasound 1500pre- Sofia "Baby" tube amp - Monitor Audio Silver RX2
    Marantz 2230/B&Kst140- outdoor B&W/Bose/Parasound/KefC75/c40/Polksub
    Technics 1200mk2
    Gamertag: IslandBerserker
    I am but a infinitesimally small point meeting the line of infinity in the SDA universe

  13. #13

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Easton, MD
    Posts
    934

    Default

    you can get the SDA effect without a passive radiator cant you?

    or is the passive radiator required because you're feeding the crosstalk cancelling channel to a second pair of mid-bass drivers?

    seems to me you could make a two way crosstalk cancelling speaker with a tweeter and a couple of mid/bass drivers and send the bass signal to a subwoofer.

    just a thought - obviously not based on any foreknowledge of polk design secrets or techniques....
    Yamaha RX-V2700, EMI 711As (front), RCA K-16 (rear), Magnavox Console (Center & TV Stand), Sony SMP-N200 media streamer, Dual 1249 TT =--- Sharp Aquas 60" LCD tellie

  14. #14

    Member Sales Rating: (31)

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Long Island
    Posts
    14,790

    Default

    The passive radiator replaces a port, that's all. But be warned, sometimes a PR is required due to a design calling for a very long port. As for making the cabinet shorter and sealed, that may work depending on the MW's T&S parameters, but it's likely there wouldn't be much bass output below 100hz.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

  15. #15

    Member Sales Rating: (12)

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    http://audiomilitia.proboards.com
    Posts
    12,758

    Default

    Someday I will try this with planar drivers and a ribbon tweet...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Monoblocks, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds, Dodd Audio MLP, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Peachtree I-DAC, Oppo BDP-93, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable, with Sumiko BPS EVOIII, Pioneer PDD 9MkII SACD Player, SimAudio moon 110lp phono preamplifier

    "The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Brad Shurett

  16. #16

    Member Sales Rating: (31)

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Long Island
    Posts
    14,790

    Default

    John,

    Here are your mids: http://meniscusaudio.com/bg-neo10-p-1169.html

    As for a tweeter: http://meniscusaudio.com/bg-neo-3-pdr-p-449.html

    You will need a real woofer from 20-300hz though. Go active with DSP and have a ball.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

  17. #17

    Member Sales Rating: (6)

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    GA
    Posts
    2,205

    Default

    I know a guy who actually built his own version of some SRS 1.2s. They actually didn't sound that bad regarding bass, mids, sda effect, soundstage,imaging, and detail. I did find them to be very bright however, but I think that was mostly due to his choice of amps and pre, which I have always found to be bright. It can be done, it will just take a lot of time and effort. In the long-run it would probably be a lot easier and cheaper to find a good used pair and modify them. I understand the pride that comes from having built something yourself however. As an avid fly fisherman/guide I build a lot of my own rods and tie most of my own flies. There is a certain fealing of pride that comes from using something you built with your own two hands.

  18. #18

    Member Sales Rating: (3)

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    SDA SweetSpot
    Posts
    5,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nhhiep View Post
    Just sitting here wondering if anyone successfully clone any of the SDA speakers?
    Forum member beb62670 took a stab at it. You might want to get his insights.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhhiep View Post
    considering how rare they're, why not make your own?
    It is not as easy as you might think.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhhiep View Post
    Looking at my 1C now, I can see that it's possible to make it thinner by shaving an in or two on each side, then move the PR to the side or back.
    The width of SDA's was something that concerned polk for aesthetic reasons. If they could have made them thinner, they would have. The stereo and dimensional drivers have to be 6.5" apart to meet the design requirements. Each driver is 6" in diameter, so you are looking at a minimum width from one outside driver edge to the other of 18.5".

    Quote Originally Posted by nhhiep View Post
    Use thicker MDF because my 1Cs feel very hallow when tap on them, unlike Lsi9s.
    Polk put some thought into the redesign of the cabinets of 4th generation and above SDA's wherein they used a monococque structure with a minimum of interior bracing. The 4th and 5th generation cabinets may sound more "hollow", because they actually are more hollow. However, the 4th and 5th generation SDA cabinets are actually less affected by resonance caused by internally generated vibrations. The SDA 1C is a 4th generation model.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhhiep View Post
    ...also make it all wood all around to make it more wife friendly.
    Attractive real wood finishes are nice. I redid the wood finishes of 4 of my 5 SDA pairs.
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    __________________
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK

  19. #19

    Member Sales Rating: (12)

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    http://audiomilitia.proboards.com
    Posts
    12,758

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Face View Post
    John,

    Here are your mids: http://meniscusaudio.com/bg-neo10-p-1169.html

    As for a tweeter: http://meniscusaudio.com/bg-neo-3-pdr-p-449.html

    You will need a real woofer from 20-300hz though. Go active with DSP and have a ball.
    Thanks man... I don't know when I will get around to it. My big Maggies with the new tube amps are amazingly SDA-like already.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Monoblocks, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds, Dodd Audio MLP, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Peachtree I-DAC, Oppo BDP-93, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable, with Sumiko BPS EVOIII, Pioneer PDD 9MkII SACD Player, SimAudio moon 110lp phono preamplifier

    "The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Brad Shurett

  20. #20

    Member Sales Rating: (1)

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    3,920

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DarqueKnight View Post
    The width of SDA's was something that concerned polk for aesthetic reasons. If they could have made them thinner, they would have. The stereo and dimensional drivers have to be 6.5" apart to meet the design requirements. Each driver is 6" in diameter, so you are looking at a minimum width from one outside driver edge to the other of 18.5".
    That is not true in SDA1's or SDA2's, that is the case for the SRS and CRS lines.
    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Smith View Post
    WOW!

    That's like working your way through Katie Perry in order to get to Rosie O'Donnell.

  21. #21

    Member Sales Rating: (14)

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    4,311

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TennMan View Post
    When I presented the idea of using CRS+ internal parts in 10b cabinets here on the forum I was quickly given a tongue lashing filled with unsubstantiated technical reasons why I would never get the SDA sound from that combination, along with a few other comments intended to make me feel stupid for wanting to do such a thing. However, I didn't let that dissuade me from wanting to come up with a hybrid of the CRS+ and 10b that would have the best qualities of both speakers. I think I accomplished that. I have the SDA sound of the CRS+ and the better bass (to me) of the monitor 10b. I've listened to them daily for months now and I'm very happy with them.
    I think you are misrepresenting what happened here, I recall that thread. I believe that you were complaining that your CRS+'s didn't have much bass, and you wanted them in the 10B cabinets to improve that. If I remember correctly, you were told (and very accurately) that if you were not getting much bass from your CRS+'s that you were probably doing something else wrong, and that poor bass response can be improved by other means besides building something completely out of spec.

    I'm in the middle of a CRS+ refurb right now, and let me tell you, they are not bass shy. Not in the least. If you weren't getting good bass out of these speakers, then the cause was likely correctable without putting everything in a different cabinet. That's not giving you hell, that's someone who's owned SDA's for 23 years giving you solid advice that you're free to follow or not.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.

  22. #22

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    301

    Default

    If you'd really like to be properly crucified just mention that you're considering stacking some sda's.

  23. #23

    Member Sales Rating: (31)

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Long Island
    Posts
    14,790

    Default

    Stacking speakers=Cacophony of sound
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

  24. #24

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Face View Post
    Stacking speakers=Cacophony of sound
    Couldn't agree more. It's funny that it only took Joe Armideo's simple straight forward explanation on stacking for me to understand that. My stacking crucificition really served no purpose other than to amuse me.

  25. #25

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    795

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nspindel View Post
    I think you are misrepresenting what happened here, I recall that thread. I believe that you were complaining that your CRS+'s didn't have much bass, and you wanted them in the 10B cabinets to improve that. If I remember correctly, you were told (and very accurately) that if you were not getting much bass from your CRS+'s that you were probably doing something else wrong, and that poor bass response can be improved by other means besides building something completely out of spec.

    I'm in the middle of a CRS+ refurb right now, and let me tell you, they are not bass shy. Not in the least. If you weren't getting good bass out of these speakers, then the cause was likely correctable without putting everything in a different cabinet. That's not giving you hell, that's someone who's owned SDA's for 23 years giving you solid advice that you're free to follow or not.
    Your recollection of the thread is incorrect. Here is the thread: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...ore-SDA-CRS-10

    The tread didn't start out as a complaint about bass. I did say I thought the CRS+ bass was not as good as the 10Bs and I still believe that. The thread was started to see if anyone had already tried what I was considering doing. I received several replies from the same person in quick succession telling me it would never work. The highlight of those replies was, "You will end up with nothing but a mismatched mess.". Most of the reasons given for the project being a failure didn't hold water. The hybrid speaker project turned out to be a success in my opinion. Since I did my project couple of other members of this forum sent me PM telling me they also had positive results with building CRS+ 10B hybrids. They don't want to post on the forum about it to avoid going against the grain. I wish they would post about it here. Below is what one of them had to say in a PM:
    Thought I'd let you know I scored a pair of crossovers for 2As off eBay, and they are now sitting happily in my Monitor 10s. The 10s have mw6503s, which are very close to the 2As original mw6510s as far as the T/S parameters are concerned. I'd already done the RDO-194s, and they sound awesome. I put them side by side with my 2As, and the sound is indistinguishable between the two.
    Everyone can read through my original thread and decide for themselves is I was catching hell or not. I can tell you, from my point of view the idea of deviating from the norm was not welcomed by some of he members here.
    SDA 2BTL Sonicaps Mills resistors RDO-198s New gaskets H-nuts Erse inductors Crossover upgrades by westmassguy
    Adcom GTP-450 preamp
    Adcom GFA-555 amp Upgrades & speaker protection added by OldmanSRS
    Pioneer DV-610AV DVD/CD player
    SDA CRS+ Hidden away in the closet

  26. #26

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Upstate S.C.
    Posts
    646

    Default

    I believe the issue of SDA's being bass shy is a personal issue. Comparatively speaking all SDA's (at least the ones I've heard) are bass shy to my ears. Not in the quality area or by any means in the extension area, But in overall tonal balance they lack somewhat. I have come to terms with it being partly due to my personal hearing response, but also believe it is partly the speakers as well.

  27. #27

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    771

    Default

    BTW, does anyone know the XO points of the 1Cs?

  28. #28

    Member Sales Rating: (3)

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    SDA SweetSpot
    Posts
    5,364

    Default

    50 Hz and 2000 Hz.
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    __________________
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK

  29. #29

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    771

    Default

    50hz? you're joking right? with all the SDA thing, I think there are more than 2 XO points.

  30. #30

    Member Sales Rating: (1)

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    central Illinois
    Posts
    3,583

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nhhiep View Post
    50hz? you're joking right? with all the SDA thing, I think there are more than 2 XO points.
    Wow questioning the guy that probably knows the most about SDA's besides Matt Polk?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Similar Threads

  1. SOLD Pass F5 Clone
    By Face in forum For Sale (FS) Classifieds
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 02-13-2010, 02:08 PM
  2. 1SC CLONE or ZMV5? $505 vs $200
    By semiblocked in forum DIY, Mods & Tweaks
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-19-2009, 04:40 PM
  3. NES Clone Systems
    By steveducie in forum Video Games
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 11-16-2008, 12:59 AM
  4. Sonus Faber clone...
    By polkatese in forum Speakers
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-20-2005, 05:19 PM
  5. brute amp clone?
    By hotwheelman in forum Electronics
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 07-23-2004, 08:56 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts