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  1. #1

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    Default 5z4p tube equivalent for Dared 2000a

    What has been your favorite rectifier tube in the Dared?What do you guys think of these?
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-5Y3-...item5d346e41b7

  2. #2

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    You can use 5Y3's in the Dared, but IMO, and I've tried a lot of them they don't sound quite as good as a proper 5Z4G/GZ30.

    I even have a Bendix 6106, the grand daddy of all 5Y3's built like a brick outhouse. The English made 5Z4G's still sound better. They have better tone and more solid bass, IMO.

    Ask George Daniel, I think he will agree. But, I always encourage people to experiment if funds allow as your tastes might vary a little bit or have better synergy in your own system.

    H9

    P.s. Brimar FTC Footscray 5Z4G from the 1950's (with the holes in the plates) has been my go to since day one. Nothing has the tone, presence and bass of those rectifiers in the Dared, regardless of the signal tubes used. Also known by the British Military valve CV1863
    Last edited by heiney9; 07-24-2012 at 04:04 PM.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  3. #3

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    Equivalents to look for.

    I have used 5V4G's with great success
    5Y3 is also a good choice
    6106 is made by Bendix, overbuilt to the highest aviation standards.
    5Y3WGT's by CBS Hytron are nicely over built
    CV1863 is the British military designation and the GZ30 is the civilian designation and is usually the smaller glass envelope.
    5Z4G is the coke bottle shaped
    5Z4 is the metal encased version and the earliest version but it can't really be used because it gets too hot.
    5Z4P is the Chinese version and is usually only good for BB gun practice.
    The Russians have an eqivalent 5C4S and it's not an exact electrical replacement. I have not tried one as there is no need.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

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    Once again thanks for the info,this lady has two of the same 5y3.
    One says made in England the other doesn't.
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Brim...item5d343674f0
    This has the made in England.
    Were would the other one be made?I have also seen Russian made Brimars are they worth looking at?
    http://www.ebay.ie/itm/5Z4GT-BRIMAR-...item5adfbbdde0
    I found some of your old posts from 2009 those have helped also.I have about twenty hours on the valvos I really like them they may be hard to beat for me.

  5. #5

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    Both appear to be not true Brimar's, especially the Russian's which are outright fakes. Not sure Brimar made a 5Y3 that I know of. Perhaps they labeled it for stateside use or it's a much later, lesser quality piece.

    Greengirl is reputable, but she is always on the high side price wise from anything I've tracked with her. I'd keep looking. I can provide some links when I get home.

    H9
    Last edited by heiney9; 07-24-2012 at 06:26 PM.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  6. #6

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    It appears Brimar did make a 5Y3GT

    http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery...gland.JPG.html

    Except the one in the Ebay ad is gray plates. Looks like there might be a production code under the stop sign. Can't make it out in your Ebay link. Perhaps send her an email. I have corresponded with her before and she always answers the best she can.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  7. #7

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    never mind
    Last edited by heiney9; 07-24-2012 at 06:33 PM.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

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    I noticed the same about her prices.I have also been looking at these RCA 5V4G Tube Amp Rectifier, not bad on the price.
    I think I read in one of the old posts someone used a 5y3 and there was a funny smell.I dont like funny smells from my gear.
    I might have to send the seller a email to find out.
    Last edited by Oldfatdogs; 07-24-2012 at 06:53 PM.

  9. #9

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    Also wanted to ask,some tubes have a black appearance inside the tube what causes this?Are they bad tubes?

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    My tube experience is tiny, limited to 5z4's, and based almost entirely on advice given here.

    I have 2 Brimar 5z4g's, one brown base, the other black. Haven't noticed any difference between the two, but haven't had side-by-side. Prefer these over the others.

    Also have a Tungsram 5z4g which I like but I don't get to listen to much since it's in my son's room.

    Also have a Mullard and Sylvania (I think 5z4 as well), and the Chinese oem. Bass seemed a bit murkier in the Mullard. Sylvania was not noticeably better than the oem, but I haven't really given either much time. I didn't mind the Chinese oem as much as others here seem to, but there just wasn't much to recommend them.

    Haven't used Greengirl or Tubemongerlib. I bought one Brimar from UK on ebay (can't remember name) and the other from Lamberto (ebay) in Spain. Think the Tungsram may have come from Greece (ebay). All were in that $30 range.

    Craig
    Last edited by vcwatkins; 07-24-2012 at 08:07 PM.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldfatdogs View Post
    Also wanted to ask,some tubes have a black appearance inside the tube what causes this?Are they bad tubes?
    You are going to be way more specific.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  12. #12

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    Thanks for the input Craig,man I have so many bookmarks on old tube threads.But there's good information to be had,the Mullard tubes get mixed reviews but cost seems high.I have the Tungsram (England) rectifier in now and like it alot.I guess the 30.00 range isnt bad for a new tube to try out,this is the fun part.Dan

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by vcwatkins View Post
    My tube experience is tiny, limited to 5z4's, and based almost entirely on advice given here.

    I have 2 Brimar 5z4g's, one brown base, the other black. Haven't noticed any difference between the two, but haven't had side-by-side. Prefer these over the others.

    Also have a Tungsram 5z4g which I like but I don't get to listen to much since it's in my son's room.

    Also have a Mullard and Sylvania (I think 5z4 as well), and the Chinese oem. Bass seemed a bit murkier in the Mullard. Sylvania was not noticeably better than the oem, but I haven't really given either much time. I didn't mind the Chinese oem as much as others here seem to, but there just wasn't much to recommend them.

    Haven't used Greengirl or Tubemongerlib. I bought one Brimar from UK on ebay (can't remember name) and the other from Lamberto (ebay) in Spain. Think the Tungsram may have come from Greece (ebay). All were in that $30 range.

    Craig
    The Tungsram from England are rarer (because the Tungsram you normally see are much later and made in Hungary) and come from the Tottenham plant. TubeMonger is an AWESOME resource, but usually has very little in the way of 5Z4G's.

    The Brimar 5Z4G is still the best, the Tungsram England a close 2nd and the Mullard (early production) GZ30/5Z4GT a 2 1/2.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

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    You are going to be way more specific.
    I will see if I can find the picture and get back to you on this one.

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    Just an example.
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/RCA-5V4G-tub...item4605e8bfdd
    The blackening around the base.I have seen others where the the whole tube was this way.
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-Vintage...item2c64c16651
    this shows better.
    Last edited by Oldfatdogs; 07-24-2012 at 08:37 PM.

  16. #16

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    The 5V4G will work, but it's not a direct replacement. I'd stick with 5Z4G/GT and GZ30 and then 5Y3GT/6106.

    The inside black is an electron shield that earlier tubes had as it was said to slow down the electron bombardment inside the tube. It was mostly a Military thing. There is a rare pair of Tung Sol 12Au7's that is black but this was mostly done to power tubes and rectifiers. You might see that on some of the fancy Chinese tubes, but it's all for show and really does nothing for today's tubes.

    A bad tube, that has lost vacuum will have an ashy white substance inside the glass.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  17. #17

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    Thanks for the explanation,did you learn all this from google?I must not be wording correctly.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldfatdogs View Post
    Thanks for the explanation,did you learn all this from google?I must not be wording correctly.
    Yes, but I've been researching tubes and the like for about 3-4 years now. It's not something that pops right up, lots (and lots and lots) of digging and reading.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  19. #19

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    I have some old links from Mhardy that have good information,I will keep digging.Most of the google info brings me right back here.
    Thanks Dan

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