Rotel 1095 Amp. Vs. Outlaw 770 Amp

[nico]

:) :) can anyone here please help me decide between these 2 amps? The ROTEL is rated 200watts x 5 and the OUTLAW is 200watts x 7. I went to a store and the guy will sell me the rotel for 1,900. and the outlaw is being sold at 1,799. I couldn't test the sound of the outlaw but does anybody here have any experience with either amps? Any help and comments would be very helpful. Thank you guys in advance. NICO

[thehalo8]

Take a look over at FrankZ's web site. He has the Outlaw 7100....

http://home.att.net/~Zimkas/home.htm

[polkatese]

nico,
either one would be a good decision. Both are reputable power amp., you can't go wrong. Strictly from my personal opinion, all else being equal, I would go with the Outlaw for its 7 channels. I am on the simplified setup camp, having the extra two channels would be beneficial for future expansion, if you are not there already. The other extreme would be going to monoblock for each channel, and that can be a nightmare logistic, heat, cost, and space. I went thru this dilemma before, when I was in the process of making decision to go 7.1 with my Rotel rsx-1065 (5x100 watts), and ended up upgrading it to a 7 channel, one chassis, route.

It might be worthwhile to look into Sherbourn 7/2100, 7 channel mono block design, dual power cord, if you can swing $2k.

[nico]

Thanks you guys. I was wondering though, I plan on using my SONY 4ES as the pre amp for either one of these amps and will I be able to power it on and off once I power the 4es? Do I use the the 12v trigger on the receiver to accomplish this? Also, I know these amps require a lot of power, can I still plug it in my MONSTER power bar with all of my other components or do I have to plug it in separately in the wall? I don't want to create any power surges. Also, if I want to listen to 2 channel music will the other channels go on stand by? I read somewhere that you can hear hums or noises coming from the other speakers that are not being used. I think that would really annoy me if it is really audible, if there is, is there any solution? Thanks again for any help you experts out there can provide. NICO

[nico]

I forgot the ROTEL is THX Certified. Does it really make a difference? I just can't see why ROTEL is more expensive when it only has 5 channel and the OUTLAW has 7 channel. Granted the ROTEL looks a lot nicer than the OUTLAW on the outside. To me I would go with performance over looks. NICO

[polkatese]

It's better to plug it in directly into the wall outlet for your power amp, unless you have one of those power conditioner type with specific designation outlets for high-current gears (i.e. Monster HTS-5100 and up, Panamax 5500 and up, etc.)

I am not familiar with Sony 4ES, but if it has 12v trigger, use it. It is the best route to control power amp on-off.

On two channel listening, don't worry, on these two power amps, they will be silent. Perhaps, it might have an ever slight hiss that should not be audible, unless you stick your ears next to the tweeter. This is normal, and shouldn't preclude you from enjoying two channels. It is also a function of your pre amp. ability to suppress electronic noise. Either way, unless you have major hum issue due to grounding, you shouldn't experience this.

THX certification on power amps should not make any *audible* difference.

Two of the forum members here can add more perspective on this subject: FrankZ, owner of Outlaw 7100 and Dorokusai, the in house expert on 4ES receivers, and its related siblings thereof..

[nico]

Thanks polkatese for your input. I will let you know which of these amps I will choose. So will I be able to plug in the amp in the same outlet as where I have the MONSTER power bar or do I have to find another outlet in the house?

[polkatese]

you're welcome! same outlet should be fine. Do let us know which one you decide to get. Have fun!

[F1nut]

Originally posted by nico
I just can't see why ROTEL is more expensive when it only has 5 channel and the OUTLAW has 7 channel.

It's got crapola to do with how many channels, my amp costs 3 times as much and only has 2 channels. It's what's inside that counts.

[dorokusai]

Nico - Buy a pre-amp also, and sell that 4ES to me :)

Either one would be a good choice, they are solid performers. I wouldn't pay extra for THX, but if it came with it, sure, pick it up.

Are you going to be behind in the future if you don't have THX? Nope.

Polkatese is naturally correct about the outlet choice. Direct is your only option, IMO. The MC 2100 Powerbar does have one high current outlet, but you havnt said which model you own. If it does not have a high current outlet, you will most likely run into a tripping issue on the bar.

[mantis]

Rotel Doesn't believe in 7 channel amps.I believe it was a struggle for them to allow a 5 channel to be built.They feel that having that many channels in one box decreases output.

True or not....thats what I know.

As far as why the Rotel is more???There worth it.They are the very best components in there price point.Find any other amps that have the amount of current and sound as good as they do...intresting challenge.

Demo and decide is key

Dan

[nico]

:) :) So Mantis, are you saying that the ROTEL is better than the OUTLAW? I know Rotel has been around for a long time and I don't know about the Outlaw but with all the reviews that I have been reading about the 2 companies they both have a lot of positive feedbacks. It's a hard decision coz I was only able to demo the Rotel. I actually did an AB comparison between the Rotel and the Sunfire and I liked the Sunfire better in terms of sound quality IMO but it was only a 2 channel amp. NICO

[Frank Z]

Keep in mind that Outlaw does not sell through retailers, therefore the prices are going to be lower. No middleman means you pay less, it doesn't mean you get less. Quite the opposite actually.

Dan,
A question. Have you ever heard any Outlaw gear? You seem to dislike the brand and I was wondering if you ever actually spent any time with some of their stuff. Not trying to bait you or back you into a corner, just a simple question.

[Emlyn]

Nico,
Do you really need 7x200 watts when you already have 7x110 of amplification from the 4ES? What speakers are you going to be using? If you're using LSi's all around, then I'd say it's a good idea to buy a high current amp, but realize you're getting more than 200 watts going into 4 ohm loads than 8 ohm loads. Maybe more like 350. If you just want one box to power 7 speakers, then Rotel is obviously not the way to go. Outlaw, ATI, Sherbourne, etc all make fine amps if you're looking for 7 channels. You could even get one of Outlaw's lower output amps and save a bunch of money to spend on more Polk speakers.

Generally, the fewer the channels drawing from one power supply, the better especially when making higher current demands on the power supply. That's why a lot of people like monoblocks. Have you thought of using a lower output 5 channel amp for center and surrounds and a separate two channel or monoblocks for your mains? If you need to drive 4 ohm loads all around and don't mind having two amps that have a very similar appearance, it may be a good idea to consider a Rotel RMB-1075 for center and surround speakers and an RB-1080 for your main speakers.

[nico]

It's not that I don't like outlaw or rotel this is my first time diving into separates so I'm looking for some expert advise like yourself FRANK Z. I have the RTI 50 for my fronts and 38's for rear and I maybe using my rti55 for rears sometime in the near future oh and cs400i as my center. Originally I was going to get the m200 model to power my fronts but I thought maybe the 770 would make all my speakers run more efficiently and sound much better with a clean amp. Don't get me wrong I love my 4es it seems to handle the rti50 very well it hasn't gone in to protect mode no mattter how much I throw at it. I just want to give the rti50 what it really deserves as a lot of people here says that it is a power hungry speakers. Maybe i should stick with my original plan on getting the m200. Cooments and suggestions are always welcome. Thanks NICO

[Emlyn]

Ah, I see where you're coming from clearly now--the infamous RTi150s.

Here's what I'd suggest:

Outlaw 755 amp (5 channels x 200 watts @ 8 ohms, or 300 watts @ 4 ohms). Cost is $1299 plus shipping and no tax.
Biamp your RTi150s using four channels of the 755. Assuming the impedance dips low like I think it does for the subwoofer sections in this configration, you'd be putting around 300 wpc into the subwoofers. Use the fifth channel to power the center.
Use your receiver to power your back soundstage, even if it is four speakers back there. I'm assuming for home theater you'd set the surrounds to small anyway.

I used a 4ES as a pre-pro with my RMB-1075 for a while and found it to be dead silent. In comparison, my Denon 3803 and Rotel combination does have a very slight tweeter buzz. For example, when using a two channel source with the source not playing I can hear the buzz only in the main speakers and only when I put my ear to the tweeters. It does the same thing if I have a multichannel source cued up, except all five channels get the buzz then. I also tried out an older Yamaha receiver with Rotel and experienced buzzing that was loud and clearly audible ten feet away. If you find an audible mismatch between an amplifier and whatever you're using as a pre-pro, you should try a different amplifier.

If you are certain that in the future you'll buy a dedicated pre-pro and never use a receiver as your pre-pro, spend the extra $500 for the 770 now.

At this point, I doubt I'll ever switch to a pre-pro for home theater use, so a five channel amp makes perfect sense to me. My decision to go with Rotel over Outlaw was simply aesthetics and local service. Both are great amp companies.

[nico]

Emlyn thanks for the input. Do I really need to biamp the rti50's or can I just biwire it? I have it biwired right now with my current setup. My ultimate goal is to take some of the work from the 4es and let the amp power the fronts for 2 channel listening. What is the benefit of biamping? NICO

[Emlyn]

From my experiences I've found that biwiring doesn't do much of anything good or bad on the RTi150s.

The RTi150s seem to crave biamping more than any other speaker I've experienced. The speakers really open up when separate power is sent to the top sealed enclosure and the subwoofer enclosure. All I can suggest is to try it. I think you'll like it. If it doesn't do much for you, you could always use the extra amp channels for a couple of the surround speakers.

[Frank Z]

Nico,
No you do not have to bi-amp, but it won't hurt anything to try it. No you don't have to bi-wire, you may not hear any difference at all, but then again you might. You're going to have to experiment a little and see what works best for you.

Now that I know that you are 150 kinda guy, I would have to say the 7100 is probably not the best choice. As I'm sure you know by now, your 150's are going to require a lot more power than your going to squeeze out of the 7100 (100wpc x 7 @ 8ohms). I would step up to the Outlaw 755, as mentioned previously or the Rotel.

Outlaw Plus'

Great product for a very reasonable price.
Great customer service.
Great return policy if you don't like the amp...But how could you not like an amp the weights over 90 pounds!!
Sound is very neutral, I didn't notice any major changes to the sound of my demo material when compared to the Anthem PVA-7, or to my "Old" receiver. ( Now for sale on Ebay!!) I appreciate the lack of enhancement across the frequency range with my Outlaw. Like everybody else, I want to hear the music the way it was intended to be heard and not how an amplifier manufacturer thinks it should sound. Remember, in a perfect world, an amplifier will only amplify, no more and no less.

Outlaw Con's
Your going to have to order one to hear one, but with the return policy it's really not that big a deal.
No XLR outputs, but then again you really don't need them if your amp is located close to your receiver/preamp.
Appearance, Outlaw equipment is not the prettiest stuff on the market, but how much time do you spend staring at your amp anyway?

Hope this helps, at least a little. If you have any other questions, feel free to post away, or send me a PM if you like.

[nico]

Thanks Frank z for your pros and cons that really helps. All you guys out there are all very nice and I appreciate all the inputs. I wasn't thinking of getting the 7100 I was going for the 770 or the rotel 1095 but in any rate, it's a very hard decision. Frank z what do you think about the m200? I don't think I'm going to upgrade my rears or center speaker anytime soon so in the meantime I think the 4es can power them and the m200 can power the rti50's. I have what you guys call UPGRADEITIS SYNDROME. I should not have researched separates in the first place, otherwise I wouldn't be in this predicament dammit!! LOLZ thanks again fellas keep those informative suggestions and comments coming, craving more NICO

[nico]

hey EASTERN if you're still out there I was looking at your gear in the system showcase and I noticed you have a ROTEL RMB1075. How do you like them can you give me some pros and cons on the unit? I've been having trouble deciding whether to get the 2ch SUNFIRE SYMPHONIC REFERENCE for now or go spend the money now and get the 5.1 ROTEL RMB1075 and just use my SONY 4ES to power the 2 remaining channels for a 7.1 application in the future. Any help with be very much appreciated. Thanks NICO

[nico]

sorry I meant the ROTEL RMB1095 5x200

[goingganzo]

what pre are you getting? or do you have? i would think of matching the pre to the pro. here is a list that would be good
adcom
rotel
sunfire
anthem
b&k

[nico]

I'm going to use my SONY 4ES as a processor and to power the 2 remaining surround channels for a 7.1 application and maybe get the ROTEL RSP1098 later on down the line.