PB2+ Review On HT SPOT

**Dr. Spec** · 10-31-2003 06:51 PM

http://www.hometheaterspot.com/html/...iew.php?rev=27

"Pound for pound I found the PB-2+ to actually outperform the (Martin Logan) Descent, especially with movie soundtracks. The Descent is no slouch, but the PB-2+ seems like it takes much less effort resulting in a cleaner sound."

And the Descent costs what................$2,800??

Here's more:

"The only subs that have ever been able to resolve the lowest notes of this disc that I’ve heard are the Krell Master Reference sub, the Martin Logan Descent and the Wilson Watchdog. Now I am sure there are many more that can go this low, but I have only had experience with these. Now that is a very tall list with even steeper prices, but the PB-2+ adds itself to these ranks easily.

Dan..........are you listening?

**Zero** · 10-31-2003 07:07 PM

Martin Logan descent wasnt too bad. Wish I could have taken her home to use and abuse her. From what I did hear, she just didnt have the slam my baby 2000's had.

And Doc, your not making this easy on me you bastage. If only I had a few more inches of space available...

**Dr. Spec** · 10-31-2003 07:37 PM

Originally posted by ATCVenom
And Doc, your not making this easy on me you bastage. If only I had a few more inches of space available...

Excuses, excuses.

I recommend REL for you. One of the smaller models should fit into your room well and fit/finish is nice.

**Zero** · 10-31-2003 07:44 PM

Well Dr.

I propose to you this riddle.

You have 16 inches to work with. 17 inches if you want your sub to physically touch your mains, and the component stand.

Deph isnt a problem

Height. You have about 22 inches of height to work with. Mainly because the racks tv stand extends about two inches outward. There goes the cylinder idea.

The only other solution is if I sell my SDA's, and use the corner of my room, between the wall and the bed, for the sub. Im reluctant due to obvious standing wave issue's.

Rel and Velodyne are being considered. However, ACI is looking very very tempting.

**Dr. Spec** · 10-31-2003 07:54 PM

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=316438

Interesting stuff about ACI and REL here. I'm sure you'll figure it out. Meanwhile I'm going to revel in my PB2+. Ha!

**fireshoes** · 11-01-2003 12:02 AM

It's in your bedroom right? I'd say chuck the bed, buy a B4+ and put a foam mattress on it. :D

**mantis** · 11-01-2003 08:22 PM

I hear yeah Doc....and starting to feel about it but...

allow me to clarify a couple things about REL subs.....

they do not have slam.They play low and loud.They shake the room genty with beautiful sound quality.Smooth bass every time even in ****ty places.Remarkable subs they are.I could go on and on.

The svs subs are 4 years in and are trying to take command in there own way.I see all the support around here but they are not sold in retail stores.Plus is you get it cheaper,negitive is you cannot go look at it and play around with it before owning it....for some strange reason or reasons I have a problem with that.Call me old fashion but I like to touch,smell,be all about what I buy before I buy it.

Touching the Velodyne DD12 on a regular basis sends shivers up my spin and know all about the awesome perfomance that the REL Storm III delievers makes me all warm inside.

The SVS well I feel it,hype and all but no physical connection.It's like having something and not having it.......feelings and all.

My road and I gotta travel it.The crossroads are getting fewer and further inbetween.................

Dan

**polkatese** · 11-01-2003 08:41 PM

Have you guys seen this? LFE Freak, I am sure! :)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=284447

Perhaps, out of immense curiosity, I might track this guy down for an audition of his system...

**Dr. Spec** · 11-02-2003 07:32 AM

Joel is a super guy - we've emailed privately many times on the set-up of his duals. I will put you in touch with him if you'd like; I'm sure he wouldn't mind a demo if the referral came from me.

Doc

**Dr. Spec** · 11-02-2003 07:43 AM

Dan, my hotlink about ACI wasn't really intended to slam REL - the first guy said it was like nirvana. Everyone's taste vary and I'm sure the REL sound is excellent.

Anyhoo, hook-up with Dave Shepard or me for an extended demo of the PB2+. Not wood finished like the PB2-Ultra will be, but design cues are modern and it's an understated look (for a 115 pound sub anyway).

**polkatese** · 11-02-2003 09:53 AM

Doc,
thanks for the offer to hook me up with Joel. I will pm you for the timing when I am ready..

**mantis** · 11-02-2003 04:17 PM

All good Doc,
I wish we where having B&K training soon so I can come over and listen or feel about your sub.I didn't even see the option to get it in a wood finish.I would perfer it that way.

I never thought it would be so hard to pick a quality sub.I even have been looking at the Martin Logan subs.I mean I would like to have a complete Martin Logan theater but thats a bit out of my reach right now.........someday

Lost in the world of LFE...

Dan

**dave shepard** · 11-02-2003 08:36 PM

Mantis,

You are always welcome to come over and look and feel mine, I'm sure once you do you will have no problem with setting aside your oldfashoned ways. I too am that way but after looking at the Doc's reports who has forgotten more about LFE then I know and everybody elses's reports I stuck my neck out and am glad I did, and so will you. Hell if you do deside to come out all that will be required will be you looking over my set-up to make the proper tweekes if needed :D. Seriously this thing can be as gentle or as violent as you want. You pick your poison and it happly complies with no complants.

Good luck
Dave

**burdette** · 11-03-2003 04:53 PM

Maybe it is only me.. maybe because I don't have the cash to throw around... but I don't think I'd buy something that wasn't top on my list just to make it fit into a relatively short-term arrangement. I think I'd go without the sub for awhile, or buy something WAY less expensive, and just tough it out until I had the room to get what I really wanted.

**mantis** · 11-04-2003 07:08 PM

burdette,
man I don't know what you be saying........but your opnion is noted.Don't think I have money to throw around.I make very wise purchases.One reasons I shy away from SVS,not because they aren't good enough but I can't touch smell feel about it.Buying something on faith is just not my speed.

dave shepard,
I live right outside of Philadelphia.Where are you at?I see W Pa.I'm all about the east.I live 4 minutes from New Jersey.Well now that I have moved it takes me about 8 minutes to get to NJ.

Old fashion?maybe but Hi tech I am.Buying things for me is a passionate experience.Without all the love,I feel slighty emplty about it.

I would love to hear your system and **** dude If I came over be sure I will tweak up your system and leave with a list of upgrades that would help your system perform at it's very best....it's just what I do.I'm very expensive.........LOL

Well I thank you for the Invite....talk to me.
Dan

**dave shepard** · 11-04-2003 10:20 PM

Originally posted by mantis
dave shepard,
I live right outside of Philadelphia.Where are you at?I see W Pa.I'm all about the east.I live 4 minutes from New Jersey.Well now that I have moved it takes me about 8 minutes to get to NJ.

Well I thank you for the Invite....talk to me.
Dan

I live in West Middlesex a small town on the Pa, Oh line. If you look on a map Youngstown, Oh / Sharon, Pa / New Castle, Pa / Mercer, Pa all surround my town I'm in the middle (some maps can be hard to find the spot). I'm sure you will want to order one before you leave, you are welcome to use my phone too:D . Let me know if your interested bring the Mrs. (if there is one) my wife and I would be happy to meet with ya.

Dave

**kberg** · 11-05-2003 01:42 PM

Originally posted by mantis
One reasons I shy away from SVS,not because they aren't good enough but I can't touch smell feel about it.Buying something on faith is just not my speed.

BUT, are you really buying it on faith alone when you have 45 days to return the sub to SVS if you don't like it? Remember, you aren't chained into keeping the sub if you don't like it, and return shipping cost is somewhere in the neighborhood of $35, I believe - well worth it since you're spending a lot of money on the thing and want to be more than just "satisfied" that you made the right decision. Oh, one more minor detail... once you hear the SVS sub, you won't be returning it, except maybe for a different SVS sub! ;)

**kberg** · 11-05-2003 01:44 PM

edited out

**Duffman** · 11-05-2003 02:20 PM

Something I've observed with reputable internet-only companies is that they actually tend to exceed quality and service expectations - because they *have* to.

Anytime you rely 100% on referral and "non-touch" product marketing you either greatly out-perform traditional options or you die. SVS, from what I've read, is one of these companies that knows it has to over-deliver on their product in order to thrive.

Some people will always need to smell and touch and will never be comfortable buying sight unseen products. Others (like myself) will consider it a safe bet for 2 reasons. One, they offer the return policy mentioned earlier. Two, if they turn out to be dishonest (not referring to SVS here), purchasing on Visa means I can make one phone call and have the charges reversed while Visa fights for me. I've only had to use Visa's services in this way a couple of times but in both cases the charges were quickly credited and my problem was solved painlessly.

- just my 2 cents

**burdette** · 11-05-2003 04:14 PM

Originally posted by mantis
burdette,
man I don't know what you be saying........but your opnion is noted.Don't think I have money to throw around.I make very wise purchases.

Dan... I'm confused.. I thought this was about ATC wanting to get a sub to fit into his bedroom.

I thought ATC wanted a sub now, but didn't have enough room for what he really wants. If that is the case, I think I'd tough it out. I was under the impression he is still in mom and dad's house, eventually to be out on his own. I'd wait.

Didn't mean to say or imply ANYTHING about your buying habits. I must've missed something somewhere.

**Zero** · 11-05-2003 06:27 PM

edit: Screw this long winded ****

Burdette,

I appreciate the advise. It looks as though I wont be getting a place of my own anytime soon, unless someone knows of a place I can get into down here, that pays very well.

Until that day comes, I want some bass! The 15's are good, but they just dont cut it, and who knows when I will eventually move out..

**mantis** · 11-05-2003 06:37 PM

burdette,
LOL I knew something was wrong with your post.I didn't know what you where saying.......all cool.

But I will say this gentleman...I might have found my sub......details coming

Soon to be 20hz strong,
Dan

**burdette** · 11-06-2003 01:14 PM

Originally posted by ATCVenom
Until that day comes, I want some bass! The 15's are good, but they just dont cut it, and who knows when I will eventually move out..

Maybe you should build, then. You could easily get a 12" driver into a cabinet that fits into a 16" space, 22" is plenty of height, and with a depth of 24" or so you could easily reach 3ft3 internal.

Just a thought. I'm pretty darn happy with mine.. I think ALL the guys here who've built are pleased. You couldn't go whole-hog EBS with a 5ft3 cabinet... but you'd have good, quality bass.

**Zero** · 11-06-2003 05:56 PM

Burdette,

I havent ruled out that possibility, although I have little idea where to begin...

**dave shepard** · 11-13-2003 08:40 PM

Mantis I haven't seen anything more on your sub choice. What did you get or look at?

**kberg** · 11-14-2003 12:56 PM

Originally posted by mantis
Soon to be 20hz strong,
Dan

C'Mon! Spill it! :)

**mantis** · 11-14-2003 08:06 PM

REL Storm III in cherry

**polkatese** · 11-14-2003 09:56 PM

pics, Dan? interested to see how the cherry match up to your 15..congrats, btw!

**Tour2ma** · 11-15-2003 12:18 AM

Originally posted by mantis
REL Storm III in cherry

was there ever a doubt?;)

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