Free Shipping on All Orders 1-866-764-1801

Vist our Online Store
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. #1

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    North Hampton, NH
    Posts
    806

    Default Suspending Monoblocks (Solid State) from Basement Ceiling under Speakers

    I am considering suspending my two monoblock amps (Perreaux Prisma 750s) from the basement ceiling under my SDA SRSs. This configuration has the apparent advantages of: 1) decreasing the required length of speaker cables from about six meters to about two meters, 2) making it easy to install a dedicated circuit to bring power to the monoblocks, and 3) ensuring that they have excellent ventilation under all operating conditions -- they run hot at high volumes. The apparent disadvantages are: 1) Interconnects from the preamp -- including trigger wires -- will have to be three to four meters, rather than 0.75 meters, and 2) my monoblocks will become invisible except in the basement.

    I would be grateful for any advice about this idea. I am not aware of any showstoppers, but if anybody has had experience with this kind of set up (good or bad), please share it with me.
    Family Room
    Cambridge Audio Azur 840C CD Player, King Cobra XLRs
    Perreaux SM6P MKII Preamp, AQ Sky XLRs
    Perreaux Prisma 750 Amps, Morrow SP7 Cables
    SDA SRS 1.2as (RD0194s, Dreadnought, Black Hole 5, Acousta-Stuf, Dynamat Extreme, JBWeld. Vr3 Mods: Xovers & Binding Post Cups, SDA Inductors & Interconnect Cables)

    Exercise Room
    Wadia 171i, Supernova 6 Glass Toslink
    CA Azur 840C, AQ King Cobra RCAs
    Perreaux SM6P Preamp & PMF3150 Amp, AQ King Cobra RCAs
    Dreadnought
    SDA 1Cs (Mod'd)

  2. #2

    Member Sales Rating: (27)

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    20,954

    Default

    I think it depends on how you are running wires -

    Are you doing wall plate connections or through hole? The reason being is if you add wallplate connections that is obviously more connection points and that is generally bad. If you can keep the connections like normal I do not see any disadvantage to doing this.
    www.Vr3Mods.com ///// www.Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro

  3. #3

    Member Sales Rating: (14)

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    3,957

    Default

    I think you'll spend more time dealing with a suspension system for two different amps in two different locations, plus running interconnects and speaker cables between the basement and you're room. If I had awesome monoblocks like you do, I'd want to be looking at them! And the fact that they run hot shouldn't really matter all that much. Gear that runs hot is designed to run hot. If you have them in an open room, that should be more than adequate ventilation. The only issue with the gear running hot should be if it heats the room to a level where it becomes uncomfortable to sit in. Otherwise, I say leave them in your room, and admire them as you're listening to them!
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.

  4. #4

    Member Sales Rating: (1)

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    116

    Default

    I'd photoshop a picture of the design to see if it would look reasonable.

    I tried to do different ideas/placements with a large center channel and many of my ideas didn't pass the reasonable looks test.

  5. #5

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    North Hampton, NH
    Posts
    806

    Default

    Trey, Neil, and Nhpm510: Thank you for both good suggestions and good questions.
    Name:  Monoblock Test Rig Pix.jpg
Views: 331
Size:  355.5 KB

    I've attached a rather crude photo of the location of my stereo set up in my family room to give you a clearer idea of the problem I'm facing.

    First, to address Trey's comments about connections. When I bought this house, I had wall-plate connections installed behind where the SRSs are now located. When I purchased the SRSs, I disconnected the speaker wires from the binding posts in the wall plates and connected the bare wires to the binding posts in the SRSs. Next, I purchased Canare 4S11 Star Quad cables to connect the SRSs in a double-run biwire configuration, through the wall from the monoblocks to the speakers, using the existing "through-hole" access points in the back of the cabinetry you see in the picture, down into the basement, and up through the walls to the speakers. I never actually pulled the Canare cables through the walls because I bought them as an experiment to see whether higher quality wire in a double-run, biware configuration would make a difference in sonic performance. It did. My wife had a hard time listening to the rig with the Canare cables.

    Concurrently, I ordered a pair of single-run, biwire Morrow SP7 cables, which have a 60-days return policy, to see whether a much more expensive set of cables would make a difference v. the Canare cables and the original Monster wires. The Morrow cables made a difference. While my wife had trouble listening for long periods with the Canares, she literally danced to the music when the Morrow cables were used. However, the Morrow cables need to be six meters in length to run from the top shelf of the cabinet in the picture (where the monoblocks were to be installed) down into the basement over to the speaker locations and back up through the walls to the SRSs. (The cables for the Dreadnought, by the way, will not go down to the basement, but in the void underneath the cabinets to the SRSs on each side. The transformer will be on the bottom shelf of the center cabinet.)

    If I suspend the monoblocks from the joists in the basement more or less under the SRSs, then I can reduce the speaker cable runs to about half their current length of six meters. This seems to me to be a good thing, but whether it is worth the cost of retermination, I do not know.

    But the more important issue is that the top shelf in the cabinets that you see in the picture gives me only a total of eight inches of clearance for the monoblocks -- sufficient to install them, but less than the optimal amount of clearance for ventilating them. I had the top of the cabinet ventilated when I moved into the house to help ventilate the Perreaux PMF2350 that I was using with SDA 1Cs at the time (July, 1997). If I end up installing the monoblocks on the top shelf, I shall likely have a perforated stainless steel shelf fabricated to improve air flow, and I shall certainly further open up the top of the cabinetry. I also have a cabinet maker looking at installing piano hinges on the cabinet doors so they open up virtually the full width of the inside of the cabinets, which is ~40 inches.

    Now, it is probably obvious at this point that my wife's concerns are decisive in this matter. She is both a tough critic of sonic performance -- not a technical critic, but one who knows what she likes and has a discerning ear -- and a tough critic when it comes to interior decoration. Our listening "room" is our family room, and she is very understanding of my interest in getting the best sonic performance I can, while she also wants the family room to be aesthetically pleasing.

    I would love to listen to good music while staring at the Prisma 750s. They are beautiful pieces of equipment as well as extraordinary performers. However, putting them in the basement does solve any concerns about proper ventilation, shortens the runs of speaker cables, and necessitates adding a dedicated circuit for them in the basement. Eventually, I would aim at installing a PerfectWave P5 or P10 Power Plant in the basement alongside the monoblocks, and I would connect my preamp, CD player, and iPod transport to it, as well.

    Neil, thank you for your comments, which I understand and with which I agree. My comments about my wife's concerns and the peculiarities of our cabinetry above, explain the reasons that I'm willing "to bury" the monoblocks in the basement. I wish we had a separate listening room in which I could lay out my system both in an optimal configuration for performance and for proudly displaying it. As I have described above, the holes are already in the walls to pull the cables down to the basement from the preamp and up from the basement from the monoblocks. I've talked with a contractor about fabricating and installing a structurally sound "shelf" to suspend the monoblocks from the floor joists. I would not risk doing that myself.

    Nhpm510, I don't have the Photoshop acumen to create a picture of the basement configuration, but your post made me realize that I should have posted the picture of my current predicament with my original post.

    Sorry for the "shaggy-dog" post -- it is always the risk when an old English professor starts writing. I am, again, very grateful for the wisdom you have given me on this issue, as I have been for all the assistance I have received on my other issues.

    And, I shall be grateful for any additional comments. Thank you.
    Last edited by Moose68Bash; 09-16-2012 at 02:32 PM. Reason: Correct typos

  6. #6

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    NW Indianapolis Indiana
    Posts
    9,152

    Default

    I hate to ask a stupid question, but why not just put them on top a shelf that is directly on top of the SRS's? You could easily pull that off. Also just a question but how far off the back wall are your SRS's? I ask because the normal suggestion is 6 inches and it looks like yours are right up against the wall (probably to make them flush with the entertainment center). I would try to pull them out a bit farther forward so they are not flush with the Entertainment center.

    But thats just me and I fully realize compromises have to be made sometimes.
    Advice is free, the Flea Market is earned - F1Nut

    Main HT: APC H15 | Pio 51FD | Uverse DVR | Xbox 360 | Squeezebox Classic | Integra DTR 5.9 | Carver AV-705x & M1.0t MKII Opt002 | LSi 15 | LSiC | LSi F/x | Kimber Hero IC & 8VS SC

    Office Rig: Win 7 -> DacMagic w/ Pangea PSU | Pro-ject Debut III | Sunfire TGP-II | Parasound HCA-750ii | Polk RTA 11TL | Cables TBA

    Bedroom: Uverse DVR | Roku 2 | Samsung LCD | SurroundBar 2000

    Sales Rating
    Gear

  7. #7

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    North Hampton, NH
    Posts
    806

    Default

    EndersShadow, Not a stupid question. I had not even thought of that. I shall put it to my wife. My hunch is that she will not want the monoblocks placed that way, but I might be surprised. It is really a novel idea.

    The SRSs are usually about four inches from the rear wall. They can't be closer because of the length of the bananas on the speaker cables that plug into the binding posts. Flush with the front of the entertainment center is as far out from the wall as I can place them to meet aesthetic "standards," but I try to fudge it a bit!

    Right now, however, the SRSs are out of service. I have the tweeters and drivers, as well as the crossovers, out of the speakers. I'm replacing the tweeters with RD0194s. I'm putting Dynamat Xtreme on the drivers, putting Black Hole 5 on the inside of the cabinets, removing all the hot glue inside the cabinets, resealing the cabinets, and VR3 Mods is doing upgrades on the crossovers and binding post cups. In a couple of months I should have the whole system modified, up and running! In the meantime, I have to settle on the placement of the monoblocks.

    Thanks again for your interest in helping me.
    Last edited by Moose68Bash; 09-16-2012 at 03:06 PM.

  8. #8
    pepster
    Guest

    Default

    Personally I like components suspended.
    If done right there is just alot less vibration and isolating them out of the room with the speakers is
    just that much better.
    What I would worry about more than anything being in the basement is moisture and dust/grim levels
    may be higher than in your music room.

    I have my Atoll preamp suspended from a rack right above the amp, for reasons mentioned above.
    It is however on a suspended platform that is just the size of the Qfeet supporting it.
    I am not going to say there is a HUGE difference, but my brain may have me convinced there is alittle
    more "air" in the top end as opposed to sitting on a larger/flat surface.

    I used 550# paracord to suspend the platform.
    You are talking about considerably more weight (which may be another thing to consider).
    Although my pre is pretty damn heavy!


    I think you should just send the mono blocks to me (I'll pay shipping), and I will try it and get back
    with you in 6 months or so:).
    That way you will know!
    Last edited by pepster; 09-16-2012 at 03:40 PM.

  9. #9

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Cleveland
    Posts
    6,134

    Default

    Hard to beat an offer like that. Free shipping and all. Always good to have a second opinion.

  10. #10

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    North Hampton, NH
    Posts
    806

    Default

    Pepster, Thanks for the input. The monoblocks are about 65 lbs. each, and I don't think I can live without them for six months, but thanks for the offer!

    Temperature and humidity in the basement are controlled, and the dust and grime are not much different from the rest of the house, albeit that the basement is not finished.

    The contractor with whom I discussed this has not yet gotten back to me with his proposal, but he mentioned the material he would probably use to suspend the shelf for the amps. I believe he said threaded rods so that the shelves could be leveled. He had done something similar in another house he had modified for his customer.

    Chumlie, I agree that second opinions are always welcome, but in this case I think "on site" is the key requirement!

    Thanks for your advice and interest.

  11. #11

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    North Hampton, NH
    Posts
    806

    Default

    Pepster, Thanks for the input. The monoblocks are about 65 lbs. each, and I don't think I can live without them for six months, but thanks for the offer!

    Temperature and humidity in the basement are controlled, and the dust and grime are not much different from the rest of the house, albeit that the basement is not finished.

    The contractor with whom I discussed this has not yet gotten back to me with his proposal, but he mentioned the material he would probably use to suspend the shelf for the amps. I believe he said threaded rods so that the shelves could be leveled. He had done something similar in another house he had modified for his customer.

    Chumlie, I agree that second opinions are always welcome, but in this case I think "on site" is the key requirement!

    Thanks for your advice and interest.

  12. #12

    Member Sales Rating: (45)

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    NC Foothills
    Posts
    4,569

    Default

    Looking at your room, I think mounting them in the basement is a good idea.

  13. #13

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    North Hampton, NH
    Posts
    806

    Default

    Conradicles, Thank you. I agree -- if I can make my peace with having to go to the basement to look at them!

  14. #14

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1

    Default

    WOW! The information make me understand. You helped me so much. I'm confused about it for a long time. Thanks for sharing this.

  15. #15

    Member Sales Rating: (1)

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    chicago
    Posts
    16,096

    Default

    Moose,
    Forgive me for pointing out the obvious, but...wouldn't getting a different cabinet be cheaper ? Wife approval of course, and it could be fun if both of you looked for it together as you would get what you want and her getting to redecorate some. Maybe even having an out of work carpenter build you one to your specs. Just a thought......

  16. #16

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    North Hampton, NH
    Posts
    806

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb View Post
    Moose,
    Forgive me for pointing out the obvious, but...wouldn't getting a different cabinet be cheaper ? Wife approval of course, and it could be fun if both of you looked for it together as you would get what you want and her getting to redecorate some. Maybe even having an out of work carpenter build you one to your specs. Just a thought......
    Tonyb,

    Thanks for your thoughts and your interest. The existing cabinetry is "built-in," custom cabinetry that was here when we bought the house. It would be both difficult and expensive to replace it. If we did, my wife would ensure that it not only equalled, but also exceeded the current aesthetic level! I've talked with a contractor/carpenter about mods to the existing cabinetry that would "fix" the problem in some respects, but it would require continued use of six-meters-long speaker cables. I already have these, but if I want to get the amps closer to the speakers, now is the time to do it. I also am intrigued by installing a dedicated power line to the amps, if I install them in the basement.

    Thanks, again.

  17. #17

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    North Hampton, NH
    Posts
    806

    Default

    I apologize for the duplication of Post #11 in Post #12. I did that on another thread once before, and I still don't know what happens that causes it. I think I want to edit the post, but then hit the wrong button when I save my changes. Sorry.
    Family Room
    Cambridge Audio Azur 840C CD Player, King Cobra XLRs
    Perreaux SM6P MKII Preamp, AQ Sky XLRs
    Perreaux Prisma 750 Amps, Morrow SP7 Cables
    SDA SRS 1.2as (RD0194s, Dreadnought, Black Hole 5, Acousta-Stuf, Dynamat Extreme, JBWeld. Vr3 Mods: Xovers & Binding Post Cups, SDA Inductors & Interconnect Cables)

    Exercise Room
    Wadia 171i, Supernova 6 Glass Toslink
    CA Azur 840C, AQ King Cobra RCAs
    Perreaux SM6P Preamp & PMF3150 Amp, AQ King Cobra RCAs
    Dreadnought
    SDA 1Cs (Mod'd)

  18. #18

    Member Sales Rating: (13)

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    The Mars Hotel
    Posts
    30,463

    Default

    Replace the floating panels in the cabinet doors at the bottom of the built-in with perforated wood or metal panels painted white. Place one amp on each bottom shelf with nothing above them. The amps are now out of the room and close to the speakers.

    If the top doors also have floating panels, you could replace them too.

    Move those speakers out 2 inches.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  19. #19

    Member Sales Rating: (0)

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    North Hampton, NH
    Posts
    806

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    Replace the floating panels in the cabinet doors at the bottom of the built-in with perforated wood or metal panels painted white. Place one amp on each bottom shelf with nothing above them. The amps are now out of the room and close to the speakers.

    If the top doors also have floating panels, you could replace them too.

    Move those speakers out 2 inches.
    F1nut,

    Good, new suggestions. It would also be great if the side cabinets were deep enough for the amps, but they aren't. If I go for adding louvred or perforated doors, I'll need to consult my wife. She did agree to adding vents in the sides of the center cabinet (discretely), but I don't know about changing out the cabinet doors. They match a bunch of other cabinets in the house.

    The top cabinet also has floating shelves, and if I end up putting the amps up there, I'll likely have perforated stainless steel shelves made. My contractor also questioned whether the shelf brackets might need to be replaced with heavier duty ones. The amps weigh in at about 65 lbs. each.

    I will move the speakers out to six inches as soon as I get all the mods completed and installed!

    Thanks for your ideas and interest.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Similar Threads

  1. Has anyone used tubes and solid state to biamp speakers?
    By polkfarmboy in forum 2 Channel Audio
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07-16-2012, 12:45 PM
  2. The glow of solid state luv'
    By Zero in forum Electronics
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 07-29-2009, 04:57 PM
  3. solid state and tube
    By JimBRICK in forum 2 Channel Audio
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 07-02-2007, 12:46 PM
  4. Tube Amp or Solid State
    By jhermance in forum Electronics
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: 08-24-2006, 12:37 PM
  5. my vox solid state
    By reeltrouble1 in forum The Clubhouse
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-09-2004, 04:22 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts