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  1. #1

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    Default MartyCube... Lets get ready to CRANK THE BASS!!!!!!!!

    So ever since we made an offer on the house we now own, I knew that the layout was NOT conducive for low end. My LSi 15's with their 8" driver while they are driven by a M1.0t MKII Opt002 simply don't have the low end they used to. Even when adding in my eD A2-300 sub, there simply isn't enough kick down low (for me)

    I know for a fact this is due to the open concept nature of the house. My old room had walls that the 8" woofer in my LSi 15's were decent close to, and the room wasn't nearly as open as this one. In addition my old room was narrower and longer than this room (more of the perfect rectangle shape). As a result my low end gets sucked out of the room in the house.

    I have been very intrigued by passive subs here the last few years, and was somewhat set on Chase Home Theater 18" subs (now Chane Music Cinema), until I stumbled across a couple build threads on AVSForum for something called a "MartySub".

    It utilizes a low cost 18" Dayton woofer paired with a Beyerdynamic iNuke amp (most use the 3000 bridged or the 6000 if going with duals). Total build cost is around 600 (when using the iNuke 3000) after you factor in MDF and parts. There are folks on AVSForum selling pre-made kits for the box, but they range in price from 200 USD and up (search FlatPacks if your interested).

    Now before I go ANY FURTHER, I need to add the following caveat: I have tapped a local guy off another forum for help building the box. I have no skills in this arena, and he's got skills to pay the bills. By having him help me, it helps me keep the cost lowish....

    Their are a couple variants of these subs depending on what size you want to build.

    Here are what the spec's on these subs look like:

    ) Full Marty (Green in graph) 2' by 2' by 4' ~ 17hz tuning in 11cuft box (1100 watts)
    2) MiniMarty (Green in graph) 2' by 30" by 36" ~17hz tuning in 10cuft box (1100watts)
    MiniMarty (Green in graph) 2' by 2' by 40" ~17hz tuning in 9cuft box (1100watts)
    3) Martycube (Black in graph) 2' by 2',by 2' ~20hz tuning in 5 cuft box (1100 watts)
    4) Just for fun the blue line in graph is 4cuft sealed sub (1100 watts)
    5) Just for wows is the red line which is Martycube with Uxl18 driver (2200 watts)

    Click image for larger version

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    I am interested in the Martycube as its got a footprint thats more likely to pass the WAF factor. In addition the finish most folks are using is Rhinoliner which is the same finish on my Elemental Designs A2-300 sub. My current sub is 18" x 18" x 21". So this sub will be a bit bigger than my current one but not by much .

    After looking hard at my budget and goals I made a couple decisions.... the iNuke was just something I wasnt ready for, and pro-amps in general. For use with a passive sub they do exactly what they need to, but I just didnt like the way the iNuke looked, and something with similar power from Crown or QSC were either too expensive, or still required me to modify them to have a quieter fan (and void the warranty).

    I also wanted SO BAD to go with duals... but my wife wasn't having it... so I am just going to get one BIG BAD sub and be done. I think it will be ok. I just hope

    So I ended up finding a Dayton SA1000 amp used on Audiogon (thanks RYAN!) for what I considered a decent cost. In addition while the Dayton 18" driver wasn't SUPER expensive... well I am cheap. I discovered that the Stereo Integrity D2 & D4 woofers were VERY close in spec to the Dayton, and both were on closeout prices. Since I wanted a nominal 4 ohm load, I contacted Stereo Integrity if they had any leftover D2's (D2 = Dual 2 ohm, D4 = Dual 4 ohm) since their website showed them out of stock.

    I got lucky and they had some B-Stock D2's which were not ever used and returned, simply had some small cosmetic defects so they didn't sell them. I was able to acquire one of these woofers, NIB for lower cost than the D4's and compared to the Dayton 18" driver saved quite a bit.

    In addition to a non traditional amp and driver, I am looking at making the existing concept my own by combining a couple modifications I have seen by doing the following:

    I want my sub to be able to be used either downfiring (normal use) or front firing (when I want to show off the sub's excursion or just show off). I am not sure if I will use removable legs, or just make the legs so that they hold the grill in place when front firing.

    Here is an example of one with legs:

    900x900px-LL-b0999963_900x900px-LL-6f6ca141_martyvertical.jpeg

    For the front firing configuration the plan is to use some sort of magnetic grill that attache's to the unit. Here are a couple concept pictures from other finished units:

    200x400px-LL-7aec3cf7_FrontwithGrille.jpeg
    200x400px-LL-c40c1365_MartySub.jpeg

    If I go with a grill, I may look at a metal grill option so again the kido cant poke through it. I have a contact that would be able to powdercoat the grill for me flat black pretty quickly and at a low cost, so that would look pretty cool.

    I also plan to have the edges rounded everywhere so if Skye knocks into it she wont crack her head on a sharp edge.

    With a 1 year old I want to lower the probability of her poking her finger into the driver, or putting toys in the ports. With how these ports are configured it wouldn't be a problem since the port is on the bottom and then goes vertical all the way in the back. My existing A2-300 is downfiring but its got a port on the front that goes halfway into the box and then drops down so I have to keep watching to make sure she hasn't put a toy in it.

    With a dual configuration like I am thinking about I am trying to determine the best way to camouflage the binding posts. I am thinking I may just add a false back panel to the part thats the top (when downfiring) and the back (when frontfiring) that gives me enough of a gap to put in the speaker wire with connectors in either configuration but keeps the illusion of a rectangle/box.

    The last item I bought was a 2x4 MiniDSP & UMIK-1 USB mic. This is a product many of us should be more familiar with. The USB mic is used in conjunction with a program called REW to run frequency sweeps to graphs your in room response. The MiniDSP is basically a flexible programable DSP. What does this mean to you? And why is it important?

    It means that you can use REW to measure your room response and create filters to even out your dips and peaks. The MiniDSP can then take those filters and apply them to your existing connection. So you have the ability to tweak the EQ to your liking (see thread). You can also boost response down low.

    This is VERY important to me because my current receiver (Integra DTR 5.9) doesn't have the ability to EQ the sub. It just has 2EQ. And the receiver I am buying next year (a Pioneer SC model) as of now doesnt EQ anything below 63hz.

    The ONLY downfall to the MiniDSP is that your taking the analog signal and converting it to Digital to apply your EQ, then back to analog. So your adding an additional conversion. In addition the MiniDSP is limited in what it can handle bitrate wise. In my case since this is JUST for a sub and HT system, those were compromises I was ok with.

    So if anyone is looking to build themselves a low cost sub with LOTS of potential... take a look down this road, it might save you some time and money.

    I have the Dayton in my possession (no pics sorry), and took delivery of the rest of the parts for the build today. I am probably going to do this sometime in June as my local contact is pretty busy right now, and I dont need this done "right" away.
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  2. #2

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    Below are some pics of the 15" driver and the miniDSP.

    Stereo Integrity 15" Driver:
    Outer box



    Double Boxed & to boot surrounded by a custom fit styrofoam casing. This I like!



    Bare Driver:



    Driver with a 12oz Soda can for comparison



    First impressions.

    1. This thing is FRIGGIN HEAVY! Its got to weigh at least 30 lbs by itself!
    2. This thing is FRIGGIN HUGE!. You dont really realize how big a 15" woofer is until you actually have it in your hands.
    3. Build quality looks phenomenal. I cant wait to get it home to get some more light on it.

    MiniDSP & UMIK-1 USB mic










    So I paid for it on May 6th, May 7th I got my order number and tracking, website says on May 8th it left Hong Kong and arrived in the US on May 9th. Got it today. Not too bad...
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  3. #3

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    Sounds like fun! I still think back on building my dual Shiva box with fondness....
    Last edited by Dennis Gardner; 05-13-2014 at 03:45 PM.

  4. #4

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    Sweet man. I know you've been looking forward to this.

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    Oh GREAT seismic tremors in the midwest Somewhere in southern Illinois a coal mine will collapse Way to go Dan....


    very nice getting jealous. It could also work as a way to sooth the small one asleep you know instead of "rocking"




    Keep it coming Dan

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Gardner View Post
    Sounds like fun! I still think back on building my dual Shiva box with fondness....
    Yup, should be fun. Although I will be sleeping on the couch for a couple days since I havent really talked how big it is compared to our current sub...

    Quote Originally Posted by TNHNDYMAN View Post
    Sweet man. I know you've been looking forward to this.
    Yes Yes I have. And it just got real since I can actually hold everything in my hands
    Advice is free, the Flea Market is earned - F1Nut

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    Still trying to resist the temptation to build a couple of my own (THANKS DAN).
    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
    I may have an addiction... RTA-15TL, SDA 2, LSi25, LSi15, LSi9, LSi7, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LS/FX, RT/FX, DSW MP2000...and that's just the Polks...

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZLTFUL View Post
    Still trying to resist the temptation to build a couple of my own (THANKS DAN).
    I'm telling you, for the price, buy a driver now, heck buy 2, they wont be around too much longer. If you dont end up needing them, I bet you they will sell and with the factory boxes shipping wont be a big issue (besides cost).

    Package weighs 39lbs.

    I'm telling you, you want one/two/three. Think piano black gloss finish on either side of your LSi's... make the wife happy since they aren't super tall .....
    Advice is free, the Flea Market is earned - F1Nut

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  9. #9

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    So I got the opportunity to BRIEFLY test out the sub (free air) with the Dayton amp hooked up to my HTC One. Threw on Breakin a Sweat by Skrillex.....

    DAMN I WISH I HAD WOOD FLOORS DOWNSTAIRS.

    Just face up with the gain at maybe 5 and my phone volume barely turned up 50%, the floor was doing WAVES ... My wife yelled up "Are you trying to Wake up Skye" which means she felt the vibrations through the ceiling hehehe....

    This is gonna be FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Advice is free, the Flea Market is earned - F1Nut

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    Awesome fun, EnderShadow! Wavy floors, and shaking windows! I'm ordering a 4 cu ft. flatpack from DIY soundgroup , a Dayton Audio Ultimax 12" to be run @ 1000watts per vc with my 60 lb Peavey Cinemacoustic amp. f3 of 19hz. homebuilt is where it's at in subs.
    Home Theater- 5.1/DTS bliss-- Source: Sony BDP-S790; Pre/Pro: Golden Theater GTX-1; Amplifiers: Golden Theater GTA-1; Speakers: Main: RTi6's, Center: RTi6's, Surround: RTi12's, Sub: KSW-12Video: RCA Scenium rear projection 52" @ 1080i.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayce1971 View Post
    Awesome fun, EnderShadow! Wavy floors, and shaking windows! I'm ordering a 4 cu ft. flatpack from DIY soundgroup , a Dayton Audio Ultimax 12" to be run @ 1000watts per vc with my 60 lb Peavey Cinemacoustic amp. f3 of 19hz. homebuilt is where it's at in subs.
    If I might interject... the 15" Stereo Integrity D2 b-stock woofer I purchased is about the same price (maybe even less) and provides the same SPL as the 18" Dayton 460 with only ~600 watts....

    You could probably put it in that flatpack and be MORE than happy, especially if its sealed...

    If your a WinISD guy, HomeTheaterShack has the file for measurements..
    Last edited by EndersShadow; 05-15-2014 at 08:44 PM.
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    I considered the SI subs. My situation requires a fairly small solution. Also, the flatpack I want is only for a 12" Dayton. It does have 2 18" X 3" ports to achieve 19hz tuning. I will also have to use a 20hz filter, as the Ultimax is rated at 600 watts both voicecoils. Running in 2ohms will create a bit of excessive excursion@ 1000 wpc. Or I may go the route you chose, DSP. This setup allows me the flexibility to add an additional identical sub (if needed) and a much more stable 4 ohm per channel at 700 wpc. Total cost (including amp) will be about 500 for the one, and around 400 for an additional unit.

    .
    Last edited by Jayce1971; 05-15-2014 at 08:56 PM.
    Home Theater- 5.1/DTS bliss-- Source: Sony BDP-S790; Pre/Pro: Golden Theater GTX-1; Amplifiers: Golden Theater GTA-1; Speakers: Main: RTi6's, Center: RTi6's, Surround: RTi12's, Sub: KSW-12Video: RCA Scenium rear projection 52" @ 1080i.

  13. #13

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    Just out of curiosity, why aren't you going sealed? You can easily boost that with the DSP down to 19hz, it'll be a lot more in phase/punchier. Switching over to non-audio considerations: Smaller box/higher WAF plus no ports for the kids to poop in.

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    **Actually posted on 5/30 just updating this thread**

    So slightly off topic, but not, I had a LITTLE bit of time today to play with my MiniDSP and UMIK-1 mic and REW.

    So I decided it would be good if I had some before graphs and after graphs. So here is what I got....

    I already know I am going to have some issues until I get my DIY sub built. The Crossover frequencies are a bit messed up but here are the best two graphs I have. Here is how I obtained the EQ for this system.

    1. Connect the LFE to Input 1 on the MiniDSP.
    2. Connect sub LFE to Output 1 on MiniDSP.
    3. Connect MiniDSP to USB on laptop
    4. Place UMIK-1 MIC in Main listening position
    5. Connect UMIK-1 MIC to laptop
    6. Connect Laptop via HDMI to AVR
    7. Set AVR to HDMI input from Laptop
    8. Set AVR to Stereo (which is both mains and sub for me)
    9. Turn off amp
    10. Run REW measurements which will measure the SUB ONLY
    11. Use REW EQ settings to create EQ Filter files for MiniDSP software
    12. Import REW file into MiniDSP program on Output 1
    13. Sync file to MiniDSP
    14. Turn amp back on
    15. Run EQ again for entire system with Audyssey engaged.
    16. Save out file
    17. Repeat to tweak sub or main crossovers, remeasure after each tweak

    **Note**
    I also went into my AVR and turned Audyssey EQ off and ran a measurement of both my mains and sub combined, then back on. The differences we so minuscule I just left it on. If I had more time to devote to things, I would turn it off, get my decent measurements, EQ my sub then run Audyssey to help correct what remained... but my time is EXTREMELY limited right now and I am just starting out...

    Also keep in mind 2EQ doesnt apply any filters to the sub at all, so I can leave Audyssey on when EQ'ing the sub as it has no effect. Other Audyssey EQ's are different and require additional steps..
    **End Note**

    So here are my initial results.

    Note the MASSIVE dip in this graph between 40-50 hz compared to the rest.... Also this is on my Carver AV-705x because my M1.0t took a today... cant wait to be using a single newer AVR with power included... so much simpler.....




    So I said, well I cant cross my mains at LOWER than 40 hz, so lets try full range.... Then look at the BUMP I got in that range lol...



    Any other crossover than 40hz resulted in a larger canyon between 40 hz and whatever crossover I set. I moved my sub over a bit and it did not clear up the issue.
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    **Actually posted on 6/05 just updating this thread**

    Well I played with things a bit more and here is what I got.

    First graph is subs and mains as their own graphs. Please note this is AFTER applying EQ to the sub channel.



    Here is the combined response - again look at the LARGE trough:



    Compared to this, its a MUCH worse graphs...

    http://s715.photobucket.com/user/n00...tml?sort=3&o=3
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    Ok, so the more I play with this the better I get things.

    Here is the system after today's playtime. The ONLY concern I have is that my sub is at 100% gain so I cant go any higher really. However that said, in order to deal with the really weird dip I had to kill some of the low end displacement so I know there is more that I am simply not using due to EQ.

    Here are the mains and sub independent:



    Here is the combined response.




    Any ideas on if the MASSIVE drop over 100hz is a big deal or not?
    Last edited by EndersShadow; 06-05-2014 at 08:16 PM.
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    Man how did I miss this post previously? Anyway cool to see you got the project underway.... Looks look you are dialing it in. Not sure what the dip at 100Hz is? The larger 18" in a sealed enclosure is smooth out to 400Hz. I'm sure you are crossing over lower than that so....non-issue.

    Looks like chalugadp might be offering veneer options. I might have to join the Marycube club?
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  18. #18

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    The 100hz drop is in your mains, not the sub. I would look at placement, phase issues, polarity etc. of your mains.

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    How much are you moving the mic around when taking these measures? Room modes can give you those dips (which can be confounded with placement), so it's worth seeing what's happening 3-4 feet over from the listening positioning. Don't lose sight of just listening to see how it sounds: you can go nuts trying to tweak out these random dips.

  20. #20

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    Yeah, all measurements taken from my main LP.

    I have been doing some reading on HT Shack about House Curves, etc... at the end of the day if it sounds better and graphs like crap I dont care... just trying to get a good baseline for how to use the MiniDSP, how I need to tweak it to get things sounding good to my ears, and learn REW and this MIC lol....
    Advice is free, the Flea Market is earned - F1Nut

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