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Thread: Plasma or LCD?

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeftCoast View Post
    I don't know if anyone else has this problem when viewing movies on an LCD, but when I see a movie special fx/CGI, it just looks weird to me. I remember over a year ago, I was at Best Buy just looking around. They had Night At the Museum playing on a bunch of sets. It was so distracting seeing Ben Stiller supposedly looking at some computer generated character. Like the angle was off. He wasn't looking in the spot where the character was supposed to be. The plasma sets don't have that problem when I view them.
    Yep that is the cartoon affect.
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    Plasma for all the reasons stated above, I am a Panasonic fan. My TV does not seem to be any more or less hot than large LCDs I have checked out at the store. More natural color, Blueray and sports just look better to me on them. My TV room has a wall of East facing windows at a right angle to the TV and I have no problmes watching it in the morning.
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  3. #33

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    If you have good light control in your viewing room and a little extra wall space why not for a projector? for the price of a 60" LCD or plasma you can have a 100+ inch image on your wall. I bought a super Epson 1080UB off of Craigslist for 650 (retails 3,000+ new), and a Da-Lite screen off of Amazon for 150. I paired it with my Pioneer-polk surround sound system and now I have a real movie theater in my basement. Granted I can close the blinds and get it pretty dark in there, but that projector can also put up a pretty good image when there's some light in the room.

    I was set on a 60" TV for a long time, but now I will never go back from projection!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmjungbluth View Post
    If you have good light control in your viewing room and a little extra wall space why not for a projector? for the price of a 60" LCD or plasma you can have a 100+ inch image on your wall. I bought a super Epson 1080UB off of Craigslist for 650 (retails 3,000+ new), and a Da-Lite screen off of Amazon for 150. I paired it with my Pioneer-polk surround sound system and now I have a real movie theater in my basement. Granted I can close the blinds and get it pretty dark in there, but that projector can also put up a pretty good image when there's some light in the room.

    I was set on a 60" TV for a long time, but now I will never go back from projection!!
    +1.

    Only caveats would be light control in your room and the fact that a projector has a rated life on its bulb. If you're looking for having it on all day every day you'll be spending a lot on bulb replacements. I shift between a 100" screen powered by an Epson in the living room to a 50" Panny plasma in the bedroom here and there, and the difference in picture quality is really only if there's ambient light in the living room, a bit of a difference in black levels, but a very notable difference in the size of the picture (as you might imagine).

  5. #35

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    go plasma better all around picture

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    Quote Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
    Yup, my dad has one of those TV's with a AWESOME 120hz refresh rate. .
    Any idea on how a 240 hz would compare? In the store, I can't tell much of a difference between 120 and 240.

    I'm deciding between the picture quality afforded by plasma, and the extra 5" offered by the sharp 70" LED. Right now, I think size is winning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by badchad View Post
    Any idea on how a 240 hz would compare? In the store, I can't tell much of a difference between 120 and 240.

    I'm deciding between the picture quality afforded by plasma, and the extra 5" offered by the sharp 70" LED. Right now, I think size is winning.
    I was very much not a fan of the 120hz refresh rate. It made everything look cartoony. I can only imagine what 240 would look like.

    I went through all the menu's and couldnt find anything to turn that off.

    To give you an idea of what I am talking about I will use Halo Reach Multiplayer. I would be playing Team Snipers and be zoomed in with my scope and panning right to left. I would stop moving the controller but the TV would pan a bit more still and I would always miss my shot. It was beyond annoying. I gave up on ever playing online at their house on that TV.

    Their other 32" Panasonic LCD from about 4 years ago by contrast worked PERFECT. So I know it wasnt the Xbox, HDMI cable or internet connection to blame. Both myself and my brother stopped playing on that TV if we were over there and prefer the 32" older LCD over the 46" 120hz new LCD. Ironic no?

    Here is what I would try. I realize its probably NOT going to happen but you never know. Bring in your own content like a DVD. See if they can let you hook up a player from their displays and play it on each TV. See if they have the remote and toy with the settings on image, see which one you like better.

    Is that a pain to ask a salesman to do, yes, but you never know till you ask. The Best Buy guys in Magnolia HATE me because thats exactly the kind of thing I ask them when I go in. I dont just assume its calibrated right.

    Also keep in mind in just about any store the lighting FAVORS LCD's as a Plamsa is going to look washed out. Personally for the refresh rate alone and darker blacks I would go plasma all day long. Plus if going 70" I would honestly look at if a projector would work since for the price of a 70" TV you can get a STELLAR PJ. But thats just me and if your room wont allow it that makes total sense.
    Last edited by EndersShadow; 09-25-2012 at 02:32 PM.
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  8. #38

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    Interesting. The 240 hz should be better, as its refreshing faster.

    It could be a size issue. I'd imagine you're more likely to see weird artifacts on a larger set.

    Kinda makes me re-think my choice of the Sharp LED set. hmmm...
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    Quote Originally Posted by badchad View Post
    Interesting. The 240 hz should be better, as its refreshing faster.

    It could be a size issue. I'd imagine you're more likely to see weird artifacts on a larger set.

    Kinda makes me re-think my choice of the Sharp LED set. hmmm...
    Like I said if you have a local vendor with it, go in and see if you can demo a flick your familiar with and see if you notice it.

    The issue is that in order to get the higher refresh rate (since most video is 60hz or 30 frames per second as recorded) the TV is adding in frames to the existing source that werent there. So yes it says its "refreshing" more but its actually just adding a couple extra frames between each source frame to up the framerate. Since the TV is adding processing itself it can cause lag to the image.

    Its just adding more things to the chain.

    A good read is here on this: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2379206,00.asp
    Last edited by EndersShadow; 09-25-2012 at 02:43 PM.
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  10. #40

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    That's an incredibly interesting read and just killed an hour of work for me :)

    It always seems like the "soap opera" effect and motion interpolation are associated LCD/LED's though. I wonder why this occurs if a high refresh rate plasma does the same thing. Thanks for the advice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by badchad View Post
    That's an incredibly interesting read and just killed an hour of work for me :)

    It always seems like the "soap opera" effect and motion interpolation are associated LCD/LED's though. I wonder why this occurs if a high refresh rate plasma does the same thing. Thanks for the advice.
    Its because Plasma's and LCD's use different units of measure for their refresh rates. I also think it has to do with how the images are created ie the difference between a plasma panel and LCD one.

    Here is some more reading http://www.crutchfield.com/learn/lea...flatpanel.html

    And another little tibit:

    Plasma HDTV are sometimes labeled and advertised 600mhz . This number is only an advertising gimmick. The number is about the tbs internal processing it means the incoming signal is sampled 600 times a second this allows the TV to respond very quickly to any changes in the image with no chance for lag or ghosting. So this number is not the same as the 120hz or 240hz of LCD TVs but still a clear indication of smoothest and clearest motion.
    Source article: http://www.tamblue.com/lcd-vs-plasma...0hz-and-240hz/
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  12. #42

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    Plasma unless you're in a very bright room with light reflecting off the screen.

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    Plasma

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    Panasonic Plasma and they barely get warm.
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    If the plasma runs hot it just helps to cut down on how much your furnace runs.

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    as far as i can tell my Panny 65"GT puts out no heat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by badchad View Post
    Any idea on how a 240 hz would compare? In the store, I can't tell much of a difference between 120 and 240.

    I'm deciding between the picture quality afforded by plasma, and the extra 5" offered by the sharp 70" LED. Right now, I think size is winning.
    blah is what I have to say.

    Even at my local Best buy if you go in and watch the Sharp Vs a Panny plasma right next to it there is a huge difference in color saturation and overall picture quality. The Sharp being just washed out as they crank the brightness too high but even when turned down looked like crap IMO.

    Plasma still gives better black levels and color than LED or LCD's that I've seen. The Sharp Elite sets are nice however at 5-8K most people are not running out to buy them.

    I would get the 65 ST series by Panny or the 7000 series by Samsung and call it a day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstmar01 View Post
    blah is what I have to say.

    Even at my local Best buy if you go in and watch the Sharp Vs a Panny plasma right next to it there is a huge difference in color saturation and overall picture quality. The Sharp being just washed out as they crank the brightness too high but even when turned down looked like crap IMO.

    Plasma still gives better black levels and color than LED or LCD's that I've seen. The Sharp Elite sets are nice however at 5-8K most people are not running out to buy them.

    I would get the 65 ST series by Panny or the 7000 series by Samsung and call it a day.
    Since the Sharp Elite came out, I was impressed. I thought it was almost as good as the Pioneer plasma. Well, the last time I was at Best Buy, I stopped by the Magnolia area, just to admire the Sharp and watch for awhile.
    The more I watched, the less I liked it. The special fx (they were playing the latest Star Trek movie) looked more and more fake the longer I watched the set. Mind you, I was there to enjoy the picture, not knock it. I agree. If I go bigger, it's going to be a projector. I only use it for movies and the occasional sporting event like the Olympics or a big boxing event. Otherwise, I use my 60 inch Pioneer Elite :)

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    I tend to lean towards plasmas. I always feel that LED/LCD have more pixelation and that drives me nuts. Only exception would be if I had to put it in a bright room, then I might consider getting an LED/LCD.
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    Just got a Panasonic 65VT50 for my media room. Would not dare stick an LCD in there, as nothing exposes the weaknesses of LCD tech than a darkened room.

    The newer Plasmas get plenty bright...still not quite as bright as an LCD, but good enough to deliver an accurate picture in a brightly lit room, and enjoy all the other benefits of a Plasma display. I have an older LCD sitting in my very open, very bright living-room right now. I would have no qualms about putting the VT50 in there. The off-axis performance would go a long way in that room.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystik610 View Post
    Just got a Panasonic 65VT50 for my media room.
    Quote Originally Posted by cstmar01 View Post
    I would get the 65 ST series by Panny.
    Any comments (from anyone), on the differences between the Panny series? (e.g. GT, VT, and ST?)

    Obviously, they have slightly different specs, but I'm curious as to what my eyes (or your eyes) are able to notice. I'm upgrading from a 7 year old, non-1080p, off-brand plasma, so I know I'll see an improvement. I'm just curious about the visible differences among the series options (and budget).
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    Quote Originally Posted by badchad View Post
    Any comments (from anyone), on the differences between the Panny series? (e.g. GT, VT, and ST?)

    Obviously, they have slightly different specs, but I'm curious as to what my eyes (or your eyes) are able to notice. I'm upgrading from a 7 year old, non-1080p, off-brand plasma, so I know I'll see an improvement. I'm just curious about the visible differences among the series options (and budget).
    My understanding is that from a PQ standpoint, the differences between the three are negligible.
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    Plasma. I can still see motion artifacts even with the best LCD.
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    Quote Originally Posted by badchad View Post
    Any comments (from anyone), on the differences between the Panny series? (e.g. GT, VT, and ST?)

    Obviously, they have slightly different specs, but I'm curious as to what my eyes (or your eyes) are able to notice. I'm upgrading from a 7 year old, non-1080p, off-brand plasma, so I know I'll see an improvement. I'm just curious about the visible differences among the series options (and budget).
    When I was shopping last year I could tell a difference between the ST models and the GT. Especially since the GT had the THX mode which the ST did not. The THX mode looked better than any of the other modes on either TV.

    Now I havent kept up much since around that time expect to hear this little nugget. According to Panasonic insiders (I think) the ST model from 2012 has a panel as good as the GT model from 2011. The GT model from 2012 has a panel that is as good as the VT model from 2011. Which of course means the VT model for 2012 has no equal, but its priced out what I would pay anyway.

    If it was me I would look into if the THX mode is availible on the ST, or if you can calibrate it close to that, if not and the price difference isnt HUGE I would go GT over ST. If the price difference is substantial I would go ST.

    Last year CNET was back and forth on the ST and GT's but said between the two different sets, the THX mode on the GT was the most accurate color wise. I would posit that fact may remain true.

    I personally wanted a 2011 50 - 55" GT but ended up with a 60" 2011 ST due to lack of availible GT models when I finally had cash in hand. With that said it was enough of a improvement over my 55" Panasonic DLP that I dont regret it and would do it again in a heartbeat (although if I didnt get the TV I would be rolling with a Sunfire Signature 450x5 right now )
    Last edited by EndersShadow; 10-03-2012 at 04:17 PM.
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    If i remember right the different panny models also have different reflective filters. Some dont have any at all if i remember right.
    I have a pn51e550 and quite enjoy it. Plasma all the way! I just wish there was a 42" 1080p for under 500 dollars lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
    I was very much not a fan of the 120hz refresh rate. It made everything look cartoony. I can only imagine what 240 would look like.

    I went through all the menu's and couldnt find anything to turn that off.

    To give you an idea of what I am talking about I will use Halo Reach Multiplayer. I would be playing Team Snipers and be zoomed in with my scope and panning right to left. I would stop moving the controller but the TV would pan a bit more still and I would always miss my shot. It was beyond annoying. I gave up on ever playing online at their house on that TV.

    Their other 32" Panasonic LCD from about 4 years ago by contrast worked PERFECT. So I know it wasnt the Xbox, HDMI cable or internet connection to blame. Both myself and my brother stopped playing on that TV if we were over there and prefer the 32" older LCD over the 46" 120hz new LCD. Ironic no?

    Here is what I would try. I realize its probably NOT going to happen but you never know. Bring in your own content like a DVD. See if they can let you hook up a player from their displays and play it on each TV. See if they have the remote and toy with the settings on image, see which one you like better.

    Is that a pain to ask a salesman to do, yes, but you never know till you ask. The Best Buy guys in Magnolia HATE me because thats exactly the kind of thing I ask them when I go in. I dont just assume its calibrated right.

    Also keep in mind in just about any store the lighting FAVORS LCD's as a Plamsa is going to look washed out. Personally for the refresh rate alone and darker blacks I would go plasma all day long. Plus if going 70" I would honestly look at if a projector would work since for the price of a 70" TV you can get a STELLAR PJ. But thats just me and if your room wont allow it that makes total sense.
    I believe most, if not all, of the 120 and 240hz refresh TVs use something called motion interpolation which is a type of processing that adds intermediate frame(s) between the original frames in the source to make the motion on the screen appear more fluid. It would likely be the cause of the latency issues and artifacts that you folks are seeing in those LCD TVs, because artifacts and high latency aren't inherent to lcd displays. I am surprised that you weren't able to disable the feature. What brand was that 120hz tv?

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    Quote Originally Posted by blehmbo View Post
    I believe most, if not all, of the 120 and 240hz refresh TVs use something called motion interpolation which is a type of processing that adds intermediate frame(s) between the original frames in the source to make the motion on the screen appear more fluid. It would likely be the cause of the latency issues and artifacts that you folks are seeing in those LCD TVs, because artifacts and high latency aren't inherent to lcd displays. I am surprised that you weren't able to disable the feature. What brand was that 120hz tv?
    Trust me so was I, especially on a Samsung (I think).

    Either way not a fan of it and so steered clear of em when I bought new. My wifes older Samsung LCD (circa 2009 I want to say) works great with none of those issues.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blehmbo View Post
    I believe most, if not all, of the 120 and 240hz refresh TVs use something called motion interpolation which is a type of processing that adds intermediate frame(s) between the original frames in the source to make the motion on the screen appear more fluid. It would likely be the cause of the latency issues and artifacts that you folks are seeing in those LCD TVs, because artifacts and high latency aren't inherent to lcd displays. I am surprised that you weren't able to disable the feature. What brand was that 120hz tv?
    The frame interpolation mode can usually be turned off. I know on my older samsung LCD (which was samsungs first 120hz LCD), the automotion plus feature can be turned off.

    Incidentally, my Panasonic VT50 has a frame interpolation mode too, so apparently its a feature not exclusive to LCD's
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    I have a 47" 1080p lcd at 60 hz, optoma hd65 projector w/92" screen, and just bought an Insignia 55" 1080p 120hz tv. The Insignia blows away my three year old sony. Nothing beats a 92" picture though.

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    I purchased a 70 inch Sharp LC70LE847U LED. I was looking at the Panasonic TC-P65VT50, but the glare off the screen was a deal killer for me. I have pocket doors in my living room, and like to keep them open during the day. I also did not want to worry about image retention, as my wife puts programs in pause mode on the dvr frequently. The black levels are quite good on this set, and the color is very accurate - once calibrated. By the way, I have 0 issues with motion blur. As a preference, I still prefer plasma, but for my application, the 70 inch Sharp was a better fit.
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