I want to add whole house audio, Sonos or Squeezebox?

[ALL212]

I have...6 or 7 Squeezes running (I've lost count) that supply the entire house with music. I like them because I supply the system behind the box. It does appear that Logitech is dropping that line of product which might seem bad but you should be able to pick them up dirt cheap. I've had one fail in 5 or 6 years so they are reliable. I've not streamed directly from an "i" device but I understand it is possible.


Might not apply but has anyone seen these? http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Audioengine-D2

[seo]

One huge difference between the two systems is that the Squeezebox server can be installed and run off of a NAS. That way you can store and serve all of your music from the NAS without the need to have a computer running. With the Sonos system--and you Sonos users correct me if I'm wrong--you need to have a PC or Mac running the Sonos software in order to serve the music. You can still store your music on a NAS, but a computer must be running for Sonos to work.

I don't believe this is correct. You can definitely store your music on an NAS.

I can stream music on my Sonos system with my computer asleep, so you should still be able to serve from an NAS as well.

[rooftop59]

I don't believe this is correct. You can definitely store your music on an NAS.

I can stream music on my Sonos system with my computer asleep, so you should still be able to serve from an NAS as well.

I am not a sonos guy so I am just curious, but are you sure that your computer is asleep or is it just your monitor? I run SBs, and I have all my music stored on a NAS, but not a readyNAS, and my computer has to be running to access the music, but the monitor is usually asleep...

[ALL212]

Unless there is magic something has to be running the Squeeze Server. Some NAS units have it built in and it will run from there instead of the PC. But if the NAS cannot run Squeeze natively - something (PC) has to be the server.

[Drenis]

you can always settle on another system or simply get the best, SONOS!!!!

Another consideration is since the SB has gone out, I wouldn't expect their software to evolve any further.

How do you know that?

Considering Logitech replaced the SBT with a new Squeezebox radio shows that LMS isn't going anywhere. Also, ponder what they have to update... it all works fine yes? Why fix what isn't broken!!

[Drenis]

I am not a sonos guy so I am just curious, but are you sure that your computer is asleep or is it just your monitor? I run SBs, and I have all my music stored on a NAS, but not a readyNAS, and my computer has to be running to access the music, but the monitor is usually asleep...

LMS must be running actively. Files (music) saved perhaps, on a external drive or server/NAS, can be offline as long as LMS is running actively. The software will seek out the files when it's requested too.

[tonyb]

Don't know about anyone else, but I've never seen a company dump money into software for a discontinued product, have you ?

Software always needs updating as time and consumer trends change, nothing new there.

[Syndil]

I don't believe this is correct. You can definitely store your music on an NAS.

I can stream music on my Sonos system with my computer asleep, so you should still be able to serve from an NAS as well.

I believe it's probably just your monitor is asleep, as rooftop suggested. LMS can run directly from a NAS without a PC, but Sonos can't, so a PC has to be running.

[Drenis]

Don't know about anyone else, but I've never seen a company dump money into software for a discontinued product, have you ?

Software always needs updating as time and consumer trends change, nothing new there.

Perhaps I should have worded my original quote better.

The SBT is dead but the LMS software isn't. The SBT wasn't the only device to utilize it.

Thing is nothing merits a software update currently. Or am I missing something there?

[tonyb]

Perhaps I should have worded my original quote better.

The SBT is dead but the LMS software isn't. The SBT wasn't the only device to utilize it.

Thing is nothing merits a software update currently. Or am I missing something there?

Nope....but as the software evolves, will any of it pertain to the SBT or somehow make it better ? Probably not. I'm no expert on it of course, and the SBT itself I'm sure will be around for many years to come. Just from my own personal stand point, I'd rather be invested in a growing company/product line rather than a discontinued one. Thats all I'm sayin' Drenis. The SBT is a great device, played around with one a time or 2 and liked it, nobody is saying different. But of the products out there that don't cost an arm and a leg to stream around the house, there's only 2 in my book that give you musical options up the wazoo. SB or Sonos. I've looked at Q-sonic, Soolos, Olive, and others......you'd drop a good amount of coin compared to SB or Sonos, thats why both are very popular. The other option is going the mac mini route but that has it's limitations too. I think all of this means squat anyway, technology is changing so fast now, some other product will rise up to claim top dog status I'm sure.

[Lasareath]

What is a SQBT?

Integrated home automation is how you do whole house audio now.

I install a lot of HAI system into clients homes. Fantastic stuff.

Since I'm biased, the SQBT gets my vote.

Edit: I should add that this is done during NEW construction of homes usually or to replace existing home automation systems.

[seo]

I believe it's probably just your monitor is asleep, as rooftop suggested. LMS can run directly from a NAS without a PC, but Sonos can't, so a PC has to be running.

I'm pretty sure my CPU is asleep as well. I will test tonight by turning the PC off, and report back if I can still stream. According to what I have read on the Sonos Forums, this should work as well as accessing a NAS ( which I can't test, because I don't have one of those yet.)

I will report back.

[Lasareath]

Thanks All for your thoughts and input.

I just bought the SONOS PLAY:5 with a Wireless Bridge. With Tax & 1 Day Shipping $502.44

If I Love it I'll add a unit to connect to my 2 channel rig as well and then down the line most likely another Play 5.

I chose the Play 5 because it has inputs and outputs as well. I guess if I really wanted to I could hook it up to my basement system via the headphone jack for the time being.

[tonyb]

Look for some used ZP90's on craigslist, seen a few in my area from time to time for 250-300. Tellin'ya, those are the way to go played with regular stereo gear, even vintage receivers do well with them.

Good luck on the Connect 5 anyway, let us know howza you like it.

[pearsall001]

Congrats Sal!!! We have the Play 5 that pulls duty in the dining room/kitchen & gets moved to the top pool deck as needed. We love it. My ZP90 feeds into my DAC & thru my system downstairs...sounds incredible. We have 2 Sonos controllers & also the iPhone app that works like a charm. You'll never run out of options with the system.

[seo]

I believe it's probably just your monitor is asleep, as rooftop suggested. LMS can run directly from a NAS without a PC, but Sonos can't, so a PC has to be running.

I shut down the PC completely. Sonos still able to stream music from the internet. I a pretty sure based on this a NAS would work w/o the PC as well. That is also what has been states on the Sonos Forums as well.

[Drenis]

Nope....but as the software evolves, will any of it pertain to the SBT or somehow make it better ? Probably not. I'm no expert on it of course, and the SBT itself I'm sure will be around for many years to come. Just from my own personal stand point, I'd rather be invested in a growing company/product line rather than a discontinued one. Thats all I'm sayin' Drenis. The SBT is a great device, played around with one a time or 2 and liked it, nobody is saying different. But of the products out there that don't cost an arm and a leg to stream around the house, there's only 2 in my book that give you musical options up the wazoo. SB or Sonos. I've looked at Q-sonic, Soolos, Olive, and others......you'd drop a good amount of coin compared to SB or Sonos, thats why both are very popular. The other option is going the mac mini route but that has it's limitations too. I think all of this means squat anyway, technology is changing so fast now, some other product will rise up to claim top dog status I'm sure.

Fair enough. But you should know that technology changes practically every six months... Things get axed all the time or refreshed, replaced, revised... Point is in five years, many of us may be using something other than a legacy SBT or Sonos. Software upgrades or not. That's reality. Since we don't work at Logitech, neither of us know what the future holds for the device now that it's no longer in production or the software that is the backbone.

In no way am I disagreeing with you on the benefits of the devices tough.

[tonyb]

Your probably spot Drenis, look at HT gear alone. You have to keep buying new gear every few years just to keep up with compatability issues.

[Lasareath]

Look for some used ZP90's on craigslist, seen a few in my area from time to time for 250-300. Tellin'ya, those are the way to go played with regular stereo gear, even vintage receivers do well with them.

Good luck on the Connect 5 anyway, let us know howza you like it.

There are many on eBay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sonos-ZP90-/...item20ccff9f1f

[RamZet]

I have done multi zone audio systems with Sonos. from 2 zones to 36 zones of Sonos audio. Its rock solid and will never fail. You can even map high end audio devices like an ARQ F3 to a sonos and play it back at CD quality. I even use a Sonos in my Rack.

The Sonos connect player is cool because you can link it to any amp you want per ch per room OR if you dont want to buy amps you can get the Sonos Connect AMP. It has a built in Amp and a LPF out put (Or you can use a wireless sonos sub).

As far as your ipod/ipad music goes, you can map your Itunes to your Sonos or you can use the Sonos ipod dock. The sonos ipod dock will let you navigate your ipod music from a ipad or another iphone/ipod. Another option is to add a Airtunes device to the "line in" option. You would then have Airtunes as a option on all the zones.

also think about longevity. SB is junk. The Sonos is here to stay and everyone uses it. So you get more support for your favorite online stations.

(Lasareath) PM me if you want a few pictures of some multizone Sonos installations.

[Lasareath]

Tony,

The main reason I went with the 5 is because it has built-in speakers. My main issue is that if I want to listen to music I have to go sit in my music room and listen there, there's no computer. nothing else to do but just stare at the gear in a chair that's not comfortable at all.

So what I need is music elsewhere in my house in rooms that do not already have stereo systems. The 5 seems like it will fit right in.

Imho.....don't get the one with built in speakers. Try out a ZP90, a bridge, and use your own IPAD/phone as the controller. Connect to any stereo gear you have and away you go. If you like it, add more units around the house, if not it's easily returnable. I also might add their customer support is awesome.

Those units with built in speakers are good for a bedroom, maybe a kitchen that has limited space. I have owned the Sonos 5, the larger of the units with built in speakers and the 120 with the built in amp. Returned them both because I felt I could get better sound by way of regular stereo gear with just a zp90 hooked up. As always, a dac along the way is a good thing but don't be afraid to use a good built in dac with a receiver or any other componant you have.

[RamZet]

Put Apple TV's into consideration, then. $100 a pop vs $350 for the Sonos w/o the amp (and that amp is nothing special). If you need high SQ, you'll want to go with the remote app and have it connect to your computer or a NAS; IIRC, airplay downgrades the quality on the latest version.

Or, put differently, can you beat the amp & DAC in the Sonos for $400? Yup.

this is a great idea too! Airtunes for 100 bucks each. you will lose the the ability to play the same music in each room at the same time. But if you are going to be in one room at a time this is perfect.

[Syndil]

I shut down the PC completely. Sonos still able to stream music from the internet. I a pretty sure based on this a NAS would work w/o the PC as well. That is also what has been states on the Sonos Forums as well.

I stand corrected. After reading up on Sonos, it does not require any sort of server-side software. The controllers act as their own servers, so to speak, and you only simply need tell them where to find the music, in this case on a NAS. This might also explain why Sonos stuff is so much more expensive, with each individual Sonos controller needing to be able to index your entire music library instead of reading the database from a single central indexing location as in the case of SB. Seems an unnecessarily complex way of doing things, but Sonos has been around for a long time, and maybe that's what they had to do with the technology available at the time when they started out. Makes much more sense to have indexing done centrally rather than having each device needing to be powerful enough to perform that task, but hey, it works.

At any rate, that takes care of my one major objection against Sonos. However, I correctly suspected that this way of doing things may lead to another potential downfall. With each device needing to contain its own copy of the index, there is probably a limit to how large that index can be. And there is. The Sonos system has a hard limit of 65,000 tracks. Should be plenty for most people, but with SB there is no limit. As long as the device running the LMS doesn't run out of memory, you can have your index as large as you want it to be.

So as long as you don't mind the 65k limit and you don't need the system to play hi-res files, Sonos is fine. Otherwise, best to stick with SB.

[tonyb]

Stored on a Nas, there is no limit. The limit is contained within your personal library but if you have different folders to access, that limit means diddly.

The reason why running Sonos as a controller sided software is so you can control it by many other means too without the computer running. You can have a controller app for your Ipod, Iphone, Android, Tablet, and each can function on their own with out interupting music in another room that someone else is playing. Or you can use one controller to control all zones or a combination of zones. Their software imho is what seperates them from the pack.

[tonyb]

Laz, I hear ya man. Just from my own personal perspective a ZP90 into a vintage receiver with some polk monitor 7's would be just as cheap if not cheaper than the connect 5 and offer up some better sq. Of course you can move the connect 5 to other rooms too and thats the advantage. But hey man, give it a whirl, you may dig it.

[Syndil]

Stored on a Nas, there is no limit. The limit is contained within your personal library but if you have different folders to access, that limit means diddly.

Not sure what you mean by this. I have read of various methods of dealing with the limit, such as storing groups of tracks as playlists, or using WMP as a backend pseudo-server for Sonos (which makes it like LMS, also requires a Windows PC), but simply storing tracks in different folders on a NAS makes no difference. That is what is meant by "hard limit."

[pearsall001]

Laz, I hear ya man. Just from my own personal perspective a ZP90 into a vintage receiver with some polk monitor 7's would be just as cheap if not cheaper than the connect 5 and offer up some better sq. Of course you can move the connect 5 to other rooms too and thats the advantage. But hey man, give it a whirl, you may dig it.

That's the beauty of the Sonos system...unlimited flexibiity. We use the Connect 5 speaker as a move about the house, deck, etc. The whole Sonos system keeps evolving & updating. I would be leary of a system that the manuf. has pulled the plug on. That's not saying too much about the product.

[tonyb]

The idea Syndil, is to not group everything into your library On the Sonos, you can have 65,000 songs on one folder and the same on another, as long as your not trying to access both folders at the same time, your good to go.....so i'm told anyway. Personally I haven't tried it and don't think I'll ever store that much in my personal library anyway. There are other ways of getting around it too if you cruze their forum. These days I'm mostly using a music service anyway for casual listening, millions of songs of which I'll never hear all of them. I'll bet each of us has a core selection of music we turn to, maybe a hundred songs tops, that we always want to hear time and time again.

[Lasareath]

That's the beauty of the Sonos system...unlimited flexibiity. We use the Connect 5 speaker as a move about the house, deck, etc. The whole Sonos system keeps evolving & updating. I would be leary of a system that the manuf. has pulled the plug on. That's not saying too much about the product.

I like their current advertising campaign. I really Love Janelle Monae and it's cool to see her pushing the products.

http://www.sonos.com/listeningisback/janellemonae

[tonyb]

A sucka for the women huh ?