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Thread: EMOTIVA Catalog

  1. #31

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    I agree whole heartedly. Moreover, I think it's good for any industry. Other companies then start needing to justify their higher prices. Theoretically, this should increase the quality of the more expensive product.
    design is where science and art break even.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devlon View Post
    1+ dkg! If nothing else, what's wrong with a company that makes it financially possible for a newbie to enter our world? Doesn't everyone in our industry win with this scenario?
    Of course they do, and so do we. And I think that is what is driving some snobs crazy, this is becoming a hobby for all who are interested in it at whatever price point they can afford and enjoy something better than a HTIaB, not just those who have money to burn.
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  3. #33

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    Actually this could be good for the high end makers. As Cathy stated, it brings a lot of newcomers to the hobby. The newer base will increase the number of buyers for the better products as their listening skills improve and they begin to hear the deficiencies of the lessor products.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by leroyjr1 View Post
    You're finding enjoyment out of a entry level dared pre so why do you think it's not possible to find enjoyment out a "entry level" Emo amp?


    Nice!

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    Quote Originally Posted by leroyjr1 View Post
    You're finding enjoyment out of a entry level dared pre so why do you think it's not possible to find enjoyment out a "entry level" Emo amp?
    I would have thought that was obvious. The Dared has tubes, which can be rolled to suit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pearsall001 View Post
    The audio god's have spoken...everyone listen up now. I do find it ironic though that most of the guys here that disparidge Emo gear are running with Polk speakers. A laughable offense on other forums to say the least. The word audiophile & Polk can't be used in the same sentence. Of course we all know better & Polk is well admired here on this forum. Others simply disagree for whatever reason. The same goes for all other manuf. & are trashed on other forums as well, such as McIntosh, Krell, MF, PASS, Jeff Rowland etc. etc. etc. It just goes to show you that this is one fickle hobby & that opinions will be all over the map.
    LOL well said...havent had polk speakers in my system for years now :) moved on to much better than what polk had offered or does offer today...curious how many are running polk speakers with a Pass amp........but then the so called know it alls love to trash certain brands at any chance they get here......

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    Quote Originally Posted by leroyjr1 View Post
    You're finding enjoyment out of a entry level dared pre so why do you think it's not possible to find enjoyment out a "entry level" Emo amp?
    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    I would have thought that was obvious. The Dared has tubes, which can be rolled to suit.
    The point was just because it's considered "entry level" (whatever that means) it can still be enjoyed. Adding different tubes doesn't change the inside and design of the unit. It's still a dared on the inside and that's not to say it doesn't sound nice.

    It's just ridiculous that threads like this gets more attention than the threads where people actually need help and advise from experienced members.
    Last edited by leroyjr1; 12-09-2012 at 07:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    I would have thought that was obvious. The Dared has tubes, which can be rolled to suit.

    so what?
    design is where science and art break even.

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    Quote Originally Posted by newrival View Post
    I agree whole heartedly. Moreover, I think it's good for any industry. Other companies then start needing to justify their higher prices. Theoretically, this should increase the quality of the more expensive product.
    Right and the Dodge Dart needs Mercedes, BMW and Audi to increase the quality of their offerings???? That is laughable as they can, do, will run circles around the Dodge Dart. The problem you and others seem to have is YOU perceive Emo as being on the same level of performance as Classe, Odyssey, Pass, Krell, etc. Chrysler makes no such claim for the Dodge Dart. It's marketed as solid, fun transportation for the $$$$. Just like Emo is good bang for the buck. It in no way raises or causes other high end companies to raise the bar since their bar is far above the entry level stuff to begin with.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polkersince85 View Post
    Actually this could be good for the high end makers. As Cathy stated, it brings a lot of newcomers to the hobby. The newer base will increase the number of buyers for the better products as their listening skills improve and they begin to hear the deficiencies of the lessor products.
    Or maybe they'll come to the conclusion that uber priced gear doesn't provide anything better than what they are currently listening to & find it hyperbole & unfounded rhetoric spewed about by the so called "Audiophiles."
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    heiney, out of sheer curiosity, I'd really be interested to understand where you come from with your opinion on Emo. Please be objective if you can. Have you run their gear head to head with above-mentioned Classe, Odyssey, Pass, Krell, etc etc, and made your conclusions based on that comparison? Have you participated in blind tests by any chance? Or have you opened the amps (or service manuals) and actually compared the design?

    Personally, I have never heard a full Emo setup, but would really be interested to hear it. I do run entry level system in my theater (Oppo, Onkyo, Rotel, B&W CDM), so I should be able to tell how entry level it is if I get a chance. Also, if anyone local to me (i.e. in Ontario) would let me open their Emo for a look, I'd love to do that too. Several years designing really safety-sensitive electronics (i.e. for human space travel and for public transportation industries) make me somewhat knowledgeable in the field.

    Just to give you an example, I can design a good amp. Then I can build two out of the parts with the *same* parts, with the *same* part numbers, coming out of the *same* factory, but the price of one part will be literally 100x the price of another part from the same line, just because other parts from that batch got tested differently. So really, if you're basing your opinion on the price (i.e. bang for your buck), you're really wrong.

  12. #42
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    The problem you and others seem to have is YOU perceive Emo as being on the same level of performance as Classe, Odyssey, Pass, Krell, etc.
    Not sure I saw that comparison in this thread?

    Got a quote handy?

  13. #43

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    I have heard 2 amps, a cdp and dac. In my rig and against other higher end offerings. Emo was simply mediocre at best. Certainly worth it's entry level price. Nothing more, nothing less. I personally could consider Emo for a dedicated HT system, but in the end I feel I could do as good with a higher end reciever and wouldn't necessarily choose all seperates for my own personal HT room, as it would be smaller than most and used maybe 15-20% of the time.

    Never would I consider any Emo gear for a 2ch rig, too ragged and not refined enough for what I'm used to.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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  14. #44
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    the problem you and others seem to have is YOU perceive Emo as being on the same level of performance as Classe, Odyssey, Pass, Krell, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by pepster View Post
    Not sure I saw that comparison in this thread?

    Got a quote handy?
    Quote handy?

    Not sure were that comparison came from?
    Last edited by pepster; 12-09-2012 at 07:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by newrival View Post
    I was at a listening session with classe, Odyssey, Emotiva, and Threshold, and Several people thought the Emotiva was every bit as good as any other amplifier. Myself included. Dollar for Dollar, Emotiva does quite well

    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    The problem you and others seem to have is YOU perceive Emo as being on the same level of performance as Classe, Odyssey, Pass, Krell, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by pepster View Post
    Not sure I saw that comparison in this thread?

    Got a quote handy?
    It appears to follow this path. When somebody says an $850 amp is equal to a $6000 amp then there is confusion as to the method used for comparison.

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    It appears to follow this path. When somebody says an $850 amp is equal to a $6000 amp then there is confusion as to the method used for comparison.
    Athanku sir, I must have missed that!

    Now that I am caught up, please proceed with your wisdom Brock!

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    It appears to follow this path. When somebody says an $850 amp is equal to a $6000 amp then there is confusion as to the method used for comparison.
    You're stepping on a really soft ground here. Many members on this forum favour Carver gear, and that's exactly what he was trying to prove.

  18. #48

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    A true blind test would expose numerous golden ears as actually being tin, I'm certain of it.

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    I'm new to this hobby, and by no means an audiophile, so my opinion may be meaningless to most. When I started buying Polk speakers, I had other choices I could have made. Did I like other manufacturers sound as much or even more than Polk? Yes. I also thought that in the price range, sound and looks of the RTI/A series were the best choice for me.

    I also know that many people give little to no credit to Polk for a really good product. I certainly wouldn't rate these speakers as entry level, even if those that are more discerning ears would. That being said, I think the same could be said for Emo gear.

    I plan to upgrade some of the system components that I have, and at some point in time, I may consider adding an amp. Emo may be a good place to start in my situation. I've never listened to the speaker that I have with a little power. When I listened to the RTI/A9's, they were probably under powered, and the A5;s and A7;s actually sounded better. That is my humble opinion, and I listened to all 3 at Fry's about 18 months ago. Those familiar with that store know what they sell.

    As with any product, many of us have opinions, be they very strong, or just a preferance. Some would never "waste" their money on Emo gear, and that is something everybody understands. I think that if somebody wants to experience whatever the difference power makes in his/her system this may be a place to start.

    The point being, that instead of talking down this equipment, maybe those more knowledgeable could guide us that are ignorant, for lack of a better word, to a better product. I'm an HVAC service tech, and you would not believe how many customers try to convince me on the merits of Bose. Again not knocking the company,but their stuff just sounds like electronic noise to my ears. Then again, I never tell those that own them that they sound like crap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    Right and the Dodge Dart needs Mercedes, BMW and Audi to increase the quality of their offerings???? That is laughable as they can, do, will run circles around the Dodge Dart. The problem you and others seem to have is YOU perceive Emo as being on the same level of performance as Classe, Odyssey, Pass, Krell, etc. Chrysler makes no such claim for the Dodge Dart. It's marketed as solid, fun transportation for the $$$$. Just like Emo is good bang for the buck. It in no way raises or causes other high end companies to raise the bar since their bar is far above the entry level stuff to begin with.

    H9
    Your analogy is poor. I've yet to see you make a good auto to audio analogy despite your persistance.
    I'm surprised you even used it considering your aversion to discussing measurements.

    It's ridiculous that you mention the Dodge Dart in relation to cars that aren't competitors. Had you said something like the Hyundai Genesis, maybe. But then again, that would only prove my point and not your poorly illustrated one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pepster View Post
    Not sure I saw that comparison in this thread?

    Got a quote handy?
    I made the comparison. It was my Odyssey Stratos Extreme, a threshold 400a, a Classe CA300, Bel Canto ref500s, and Emo XPA-1s. I had said that several thought the Emotiva performed in the same league as the others. That is to say, it did some things better than the others and poorer in other areas, but the delta was so small that no one felt it was embarrassed by any amp. In fact, There were a few who preferred it.
    design is where science and art break even.

  22. #52
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    No worries here.
    I was somewhat impressed with what I heard also.
    Good room, decent speakers and excellent source components.
    Very good combination, and synergy.

    I get the feeling that most people who comment negatively about the Emo products have NEVER actually heard them.

    JMHO.
    Last edited by pepster; 12-09-2012 at 09:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    Right and the Dodge Dart needs Mercedes, BMW and Audi to increase the quality of their offerings???? That is laughable as they can, do, will run circles around the Dodge Dart. The problem you and others seem to have is YOU perceive Emo as being on the same level of performance as Classe, Odyssey, Pass, Krell, etc. Chrysler makes no such claim for the Dodge Dart. It's marketed as solid, fun transportation for the $$$$. Just like Emo is good bang for the buck. It in no way raises or causes other high end companies to raise the bar since their bar is far above the entry level stuff to begin with.

    H9
    Excellent analogy.

    Quote Originally Posted by pearsall001
    Or maybe they'll come to the conclusion that uber priced gear doesn't provide anything better than what they are currently listening to & find it hyperbole & unfounded rhetoric spewed about by the so called "Audiophiles."
    Hilarious

    Quote Originally Posted by pepster
    I get the feeling that most people who comment negatively about the Emo product have NEVER actually heard them.
    I have and had to leave the room.
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  25. #55
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    I have and had to leave the room.
    Because the sun was coming up?

    Pathetic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    True. My mistake for just doing a quick glance, and then making an assumption.

    To be honest, while I understand the business model, design in USA, manufacture in China, and sell over Internet, I just cannot get a gripe on the crazy low prices with the claim of using premium components, 5 year warranty, and free shipping. Maybe other manufacturers gear does have higher margins than Emotiva, but selling a 1000w (4 ohm) monoblock for $850 cannot be providing much profit. Something just does not add up.
    When I was at guitar center picking up my amp for my up coming sub project I saw no shortage of sub $1000 amps with really high output. Right now you can't swing a dead cat by the tail and read about people talking about the sound quality out of something like the Crown XLS DriveCore series and the 2500 will get you 2400 Watts 4 Ohm bridged. For $600.

    I think with these new amps the technology change has indeed changed how much it cost to build these types of amps. So $850 may not be so out of line is my guess.
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    Originally posted by newrival: "I agree whole heartedly. Moreover, I think it's good for any industry. Other companies then start needing to justify their higher prices. Theoretically, this should increase the quality of the more expensive product."

    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    Right and the Dodge Dart needs Mercedes, BMW and Audi to increase the quality of their offerings???? That is laughable as they can, do, will run circles around the Dodge Dart. The problem you and others seem to have is YOU perceive Emo as being on the same level of performance as Classe, Odyssey, Pass, Krell, etc. Chrysler makes no such claim for the Dodge Dart. It's marketed as solid, fun transportation for the $$$$. Just like Emo is good bang for the buck. It in no way raises or causes other high end companies to raise the bar since their bar is far above the entry level stuff to begin with.

    H9
    I would like to offer a different interpretation of newrival's post:

    I don't think newrival meant that the Emotiva is such a great amp that it challenges the higher dollar name brand amps like Classe, Parasound, etc., because it is in the same league as these other brands. And, that because it is in same league as these higher dollar brands these brands need to justifiy their prices! I don't think this is the correct interpretation. I don't think there is anyone here that would say a Emotiva XPA-5 (899.00) is anywhere in the same league as say a Classe CA5200 (9000.00) I think that goeswithout saying. A simple extrapolation of what I think he meant is something like this: If a CA5200 is 10x the price of a XPA-5 shouldn't it theoretically sound ten times better? Well, let's say for arguments sake that that is unrealistic, but it does sound 3x better. So if it the Classe sounds 3x better that the Emotiva shouldn't the price be about 2,700.00 (3 x 899.00)? A lower dollar power amp like the Halo A51 is around 4500.00 list (5 x 899.00). But what if it only sounded twice as good as the Emotiva? Shouldn't the price then be about 1,800.00 (2 x 899.00)? If sound quality improvement is not exponentially the same as the dollars, then yes, some justification might be wanted by some. I'm not convinced that we always get what we pay for. Technology is always on the move. Those at the top of their industry now, if they sit still long enough, they will be passed up. I can see where great lower cost technology that is always improving (Dragonfly USB DAC for example) will be seen as a potential up and coming challenge to those at the top of their field to improve even more.

    In conclusion, I think bashing any brand that can help stair step others into our industry would only serve to hurt the audio industry in general, an industry with todays economy, that needs all the help that it can get. Don't burn a bridge that might be someone's only chance to cross over into our world of audiophilia. Not all of us can start at the top.
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    How does one determine if a certain amp is 3 times better or 10 times better? I've seen folks throw that comment out over the years, but I've never seen anyone actually say that amp A is 10 times better than amp B. How can they, it's a ridiculous notion. Just as ridiculous as the terms "bang for the buck" and "giant killer" because everyone has a different level of affordability and there are no giant killers, only wishful dreamers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pepster View Post
    Pathetic.
    What's the matter, did I call your baby ugly?
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    Oh goodie, I need some toilet paper.
    You crack me up Jesse!
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