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  1. #1

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    Default Advent 2002 Speaker Restoration

    I picked up a pair of Advent 2002 from the thrift store the other day which need a little repair. The cabinets look great for their age as do the grills. I have read good things about these speakers, as with pretty much all of Henry Kloss designs. These are a very simple, very classic looking speaker that I couldn't pass for $8 and I look forward to restoring.

    I want to try my hand at refoaming the couple woofers, which is something I have never attempted. They are 8" woofers that were commonly used in Advents of that era (Advent 4). I have seen some kits which come with voice coil shims and replacement dust caps while others don't. Obviously, with out the shims I'll have to make sure the VC is centered when gluing the foam to the basket. Examining the woofers with the rotted foam, they seen to hold to center pretty well.

    Is keeping the VC centered that difficult to do or should I plan on removing the dust cap and shimming? Any tips?

    Thanks
    Stan
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    Last edited by skrol; 01-09-2013 at 09:17 AM.
    Stan

    Main 2ch:
    Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade)
    Parasound: C/PT-600, HCA-800II; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i

    HT:
    Denon AVR-888, Polk: RM7, PSW10, Marantz UD5005, Panasonic TC-P42S60

    Other stuff:
    Denon: DRA-835R, DRA-825R, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S8, Monitor 5A, TSi100; Pioneer CT-6R, PL-530; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz PM5004, CD5004

  2. #2

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    I have done many surrounds and have only needed shims once. Some Infinity driver used pointed phase plugs and yes in those you need shims to keep debris out of the voice coil this was the only time I shimed. I have done Advents and they are like Cerwin Vegas EASY... Just take your time do the cone one day do the basket the next go slow and walk away if frustrated.
    Good luck

  3. #3

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    If you want to do it correctly, then shimming is the only way to go. Shimming has several advantages. 1st, it ensures a uniform air gap between the voice coil and the pole piece throughout its travel. This is important because the voice coil must be perfectly plumb, otherwise it may rub when approaching the excersion limits of the woofer. 2nd, shimming allows you to reposition the spider to a more neutral or flat position. When spiders age, they tend to collapse inward towards the magnet. If the new foam is glued with the spider in this position, cone travel may be affected.
    Make sure you obtain the correct style dust caps. There are three basic types used on older woofers, pressed paper, felt, and mesh. The felt and mesh are porous. You'll want to replace the cap with the same type, otherwise it may affect the original T/S parameters of the woofer. Be sure to leave the dust cap in place untill all the old foam is removed and the cones are prepped and ready for the new foam. You don't want any debris falling into the voice coil's air gap
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL
    Center: Custom Built http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...hannel-Project
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...rround-Project
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat & Hurricane Nuts.
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-350
    Other:
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    Bose 901 Series II Continentals, Custom Rebuilt Equalizer
    www.dhsspeakerservice.com

  4. #4

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    Westmassguy
    These are things that I was wondering about: debris and the material of the cap. As these are acoustic suspension speakers, air flow through the spider-VC-dust cap may impact the seal of the speaker. I saw kits which specified that they were designed specifically for the Advent 8" woofer used in the 2002 but also said that it included the mesh fabric dust cap where mine appear to be pressed paper. I had also read that Advent used a specific weight in the dust caps and some folks who replaced their caps were having to layer replacement caps to achieve that weight. This is why I was hoping to leave the original dust cap in place. You make good points with your reasons in favor of shimming though. I think I'll take a closer look at the woofers to see if reliefing of the spider and centering will be issues.

    Thanks for the input.
    Stan

    Main 2ch:
    Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade)
    Parasound: C/PT-600, HCA-800II; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i

    HT:
    Denon AVR-888, Polk: RM7, PSW10, Marantz UD5005, Panasonic TC-P42S60

    Other stuff:
    Denon: DRA-835R, DRA-825R, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S8, Monitor 5A, TSi100; Pioneer CT-6R, PL-530; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz PM5004, CD5004

  5. #5

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    I've done several Advents from that era in the last few months, and all were mesh. Keep in mind your particular woofers may have already been re-edged once before. If so, they may have installed the paper dust caps instead of the correct mesh type. The old polyurethane foam surrounds lasted about 15 years, so it's quite possible that they've been done before. The new polyether foam is supposed to last 20 -25 years. I wouldn't worry too much about the weight of the dust caps, especially in an acoustic suspension design.
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL
    Center: Custom Built http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...hannel-Project
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...rround-Project
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat & Hurricane Nuts.
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-350
    Other:
    SDA-CRS+
    Bose 901 Series II Continentals, Custom Rebuilt Equalizer
    www.dhsspeakerservice.com

  6. #6

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    By golly, you are right; they are mesh. I also think that it is best that I shim the VC. One of the surrounds is completely detached and it seem like it will be little tricky to keep the VC centered properly.
    Stan

    Main 2ch:
    Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade)
    Parasound: C/PT-600, HCA-800II; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i

    HT:
    Denon AVR-888, Polk: RM7, PSW10, Marantz UD5005, Panasonic TC-P42S60

    Other stuff:
    Denon: DRA-835R, DRA-825R, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S8, Monitor 5A, TSi100; Pioneer CT-6R, PL-530; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz PM5004, CD5004

  7. #7

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    Westmassguy
    Where do you get your surrounds for your Advents?
    Stan

    Main 2ch:
    Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade)
    Parasound: C/PT-600, HCA-800II; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i

    HT:
    Denon AVR-888, Polk: RM7, PSW10, Marantz UD5005, Panasonic TC-P42S60

    Other stuff:
    Denon: DRA-835R, DRA-825R, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S8, Monitor 5A, TSi100; Pioneer CT-6R, PL-530; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz PM5004, CD5004

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by skrol View Post
    Westmassguy
    Where do you get your surrounds for your Advents?
    I get them through my wholesaler, they're not open to the public. Your best bet would be Midwest Speaker, Orange County, Simply Speakers to name a few. There's some eBay sellers that may have better pricing as well. Make sure it's a complete kit, Surrounds, Mesh Dust Caps, Shims, but buy your own glue. A small bottle of Aleens Original Tacky Glue will suffice.
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL
    Center: Custom Built http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...hannel-Project
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...rround-Project
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat & Hurricane Nuts.
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-350
    Other:
    SDA-CRS+
    Bose 901 Series II Continentals, Custom Rebuilt Equalizer
    www.dhsspeakerservice.com

  9. #9

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    I've done all my business with Orange County great people and superior speaker foams,gaskets and other brand name items never had any problems with their glue. Can't say the same with other suppliers.
    I'll look into that Aleens glue next time never hurts.

  10. #10

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    Thanks a bunch. I see the Aleens Original Tacky Glue is available in craft stores.
    Stan
    Stan

    Main 2ch:
    Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade)
    Parasound: C/PT-600, HCA-800II; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i

    HT:
    Denon AVR-888, Polk: RM7, PSW10, Marantz UD5005, Panasonic TC-P42S60

    Other stuff:
    Denon: DRA-835R, DRA-825R, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S8, Monitor 5A, TSi100; Pioneer CT-6R, PL-530; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz PM5004, CD5004

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by pitdogg2 View Post
    I've done all my business with Orange County great people and superior speaker foams,gaskets and other brand name items never had any problems with their glue. Can't say the same with other suppliers.
    I'll look into that Aleens glue next time never hurts.
    I do a good amount of business with Bryan and Eric as well. Great people.
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL
    Center: Custom Built http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...hannel-Project
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...rround-Project
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat & Hurricane Nuts.
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-350
    Other:
    SDA-CRS+
    Bose 901 Series II Continentals, Custom Rebuilt Equalizer
    www.dhsspeakerservice.com

  12. #12

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    Well I did it, re-foamed my first speakers. The kit from Midwest Speaker was perfect. I was going to try to avoid shimming the VC but after I attached the new foam to the cone, one had a tendency to scrape and it seemed a little difficult keeping it centered. I as afraid that when I glued the foam to the basket, it would tend to creep and get off center before the glue dried. So, I ended up shimming. Shimming was not difficult at all and I figure this insures that the VC is centered and should be close to the intended characteristics.

    Sound Check! I remember being impressed with the Advents of the late '80 back in the day but I had not ever heard this vintage 1980 Advent. I am very impressed with the sound. While the overall character is sweet, though slightly bright, and very open; what astounds me the most is the imaging. I set up three pairs of speakers (Advents, RTA-11TL and Monitor 5B) and my son could not pick which ones were playing when the Advents were connected, while he could with the others. While close, do I dare say they image better than my RTA11TL's? It could be placement as the RTA's are set too close to the walls. No contest for the 5B, however, the 5A's were close. Granted, the Monitors could use XO upgrades.

    We were blown away that such a simple design, using paper cone tweeters no less, could sound this good. Hats off to Mr. Kloss! I realize that he had left the company by then but I believe this was still his design.

    Where do I go from here? I am considering some XO upgrades as the electrolytics are likely dried out and new binding posts to replace the original thumb screw type. The XO's are very simple with one ?mH inductor, one 4uF cap and one 4-ohm resistor and should be a cheap upgrade.
    Last edited by skrol; 02-11-2013 at 01:00 AM.
    Stan

    Main 2ch:
    Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade)
    Parasound: C/PT-600, HCA-800II; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i

    HT:
    Denon AVR-888, Polk: RM7, PSW10, Marantz UD5005, Panasonic TC-P42S60

    Other stuff:
    Denon: DRA-835R, DRA-825R, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S8, Monitor 5A, TSi100; Pioneer CT-6R, PL-530; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz PM5004, CD5004

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by skrol View Post
    Well I did it, re-foamed my first speakers. The kit from Midwest Speaker was perfect. I was going to try to avoid shimming the VC but after I attached the new foam to the cone, one had a tendency to scrape and it seemed a little difficult keeping it centered. I as afraid that when I glued the foam to the basket, it would tend to creep and get off center before the glue dried. So, I ended up shimming. Shimming was not difficult at all and I figure this insures that the VC is centered and should be close to the intended characteristics.

    Sound Check! I remember being impressed with the Advents of the late '80 back in the day but I had not ever heard this vintage 1980 Advent. I am very impressed with the sound. While the overall character is sweet, though slightly bright, and very open; what astounds me the most is the imaging. I set up three pairs of speakers (Advents, RTA-11TL and Monitor 5B) and my son could not pick which ones were playing when the Advents were connected, while he could with the others. While close, do I dare say they image better than my RTA11TL's? It could be placement as the RTA's are set too close to the walls. No contest for the 5B, however, the 5A's were close. Granted, the Monitors could use XO upgrades.

    We were blown away that such a simple design, using paper cone tweeters no less, could sound this good. Hats off to Mr. Kloss! I realize that he had left the company by then but I believe this was still his design.

    Where do I go from here? I am considering some XO upgrades as the electrolytics are likely dried out and new binding posts to replace the original thumb screw type. The XO's are very simple with one ?mH inductor, one 4uF cap and one 4-ohm resistor and should be a cheap upgrade.
    Glad they came out well for you. Don't forget new gaskets for everything. Also check the back panel, and make sure it's sealed well. They tend to rattle if the glue is dried out, not to mention it's not perfectly sealed anymore. For the crossovers, get a couple Sonicaps and Mills resistors, and those paper cones will sound even sweeter. Talk to Elliot over at Sonicap, he'll get you squared away. If you want to go a little more conservative, Madisound carries the Clarity PX caps, and Mundorf MOX resistors.
    Last edited by westmassguy; 02-11-2013 at 05:12 AM.
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL
    Center: Custom Built http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...hannel-Project
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...rround-Project
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat & Hurricane Nuts.
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-350
    Other:
    SDA-CRS+
    Bose 901 Series II Continentals, Custom Rebuilt Equalizer
    www.dhsspeakerservice.com

  14. #14

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    Thanks for the heads-up about the glue and back panel. What do you recommend for gaskets?
    Stan

    Main 2ch:
    Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade)
    Parasound: C/PT-600, HCA-800II; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i

    HT:
    Denon AVR-888, Polk: RM7, PSW10, Marantz UD5005, Panasonic TC-P42S60

    Other stuff:
    Denon: DRA-835R, DRA-825R, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S8, Monitor 5A, TSi100; Pioneer CT-6R, PL-530; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz PM5004, CD5004

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by skrol View Post
    Thanks for the heads-up about the glue and back panel. What do you recommend for gaskets?
    I use clear acrylic caulk to re-seal the interior of the cabinets. It comes in cartridge form for a caulking gun, or tubes. One tube should be more than enough for the two cabs. Be sure to let it dry thoroughly before you seal everything back up. For gaskets, most on the forum recommend Armaflex/Armacell 2" X 1/4" foam tape, cut into strips. I use a comercial gasket material however. Frost King makes a weather strip which I've used in the past with great success. It's light grey in color, 3/8" wide X 1/4" thick, highly compressible, and self adheasive.
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL
    Center: Custom Built http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...hannel-Project
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...rround-Project
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat & Hurricane Nuts.
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-350
    Other:
    SDA-CRS+
    Bose 901 Series II Continentals, Custom Rebuilt Equalizer
    www.dhsspeakerservice.com

  16. #16

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    Other than a set of CSW computer speakers, which are quite good for what they are, this is my first real experience with any of Henry Kloss design and I am very impressed. They have sparked my curiosity about other Advents, KLH, AR and Cambridge Sound Works speakers. As you seem quite knowledgeable of his products, can you recommend some highly regarded models that I can be on the watch for?

    I probably should throw in Radio Shack as many vintage models were by KLH.

    Thanks
    Stan
    Stan

    Main 2ch:
    Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade)
    Parasound: C/PT-600, HCA-800II; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i

    HT:
    Denon AVR-888, Polk: RM7, PSW10, Marantz UD5005, Panasonic TC-P42S60

    Other stuff:
    Denon: DRA-835R, DRA-825R, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S8, Monitor 5A, TSi100; Pioneer CT-6R, PL-530; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz PM5004, CD5004

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by skrol View Post
    Other than a set of CSW computer speakers, which are quite good for what they are, this is my first real experience with any of Henry Kloss design and I am very impressed. They have sparked my curiosity about other Advents, KLH, AR and Cambridge Sound Works speakers. As you seem quite knowledgeable of his products, can you recommend some highly regarded models that I can be on the watch for?

    I probably should throw in Radio Shack as many vintage models were by KLH.

    Thanks
    Stan
    Not as knowledgeable as many, many others. Late 60s into the 70s, Henry was involved in most of them. That would be the time period for any classic speakers with his finger prints on them.
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL
    Center: Custom Built http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...hannel-Project
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...rround-Project
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat & Hurricane Nuts.
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-350
    Other:
    SDA-CRS+
    Bose 901 Series II Continentals, Custom Rebuilt Equalizer
    www.dhsspeakerservice.com

  18. #18

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    recommend you look for some KLH Model SIX's or 17's or 23's...all worth trying for the right $$$

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