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  1. #1

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    Default New avr for my rti10

    Hi guys,
    My old harman kardon avr 8000 just died. I loved this avr and I think It will be difficult to replace (lot of power!). i think that hk is a pretty good match for my rti. Because of that, I ordered a avr 3600 which I believe, is a better choice than avr 3650 (which has no preout). I should receive it next week.
    Question: would it be possible to use the amp section of my old avr 8000 to power my new avr 3600?
    Is it a good idea or if the power of avr 3600 will be enough to power my rti10 (+cs3 + fx3)
    How will I do that?
    I think that the power section of my old avr 8000 is still alive.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by Parachoute; 01-21-2013 at 03:06 AM.

  2. #2

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    You can't do that.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    You can't do that.
    By linking the input channel on the back of avr 8000 to the preout of avr 3600? No?

  4. #4

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    Input channel?
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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  5. #5

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    Channel direct input...

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    Input channel?
    I provide a picture of the rear panel with the 6 Chanel direct inputs
    Attached Images  

  7. #7

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    No idea what that is. Why don't you wait until you get your new AVR and give it a spin before anything else.

    Seems your old 8000 is rated at 110 wpc, not sure if that's only 2 channels driven or what. A quick look inside indicates it's not all that beefy, so probably only 2 channels driven. Had you considered a Pioneer Elite SC series AVR, which actually puts out its rated power (140 wpc) with 5 channels driven, slightly less with 7 channels?
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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  8. #8

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    Ah ok, I was writing while you posted the pic. It appears those are for analog RCA multi-channel connections for a DVD or SACD player. There appears to be a function description just out of the frame, what does it say?
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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  9. #9

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    Thanks F1nut!

    [QUOTE=F1nut;1868476]
    Seems your old 8000 is rated at 110 wpc, not sure if that's only 2 channels driven or what. A quick look inside indicates it's not all that beefy, so probably only 2 channels driven.

    It is 125 h/k wpc, 2 channel driven, 85 amps, 53 lbs. I consider it quite beefy (at least compared to the avr 3600 which is 32 lbs and 80 wpc. I heard that the avr 8000, at a bench test, was more powerfull than some dedicated 200 wpc amp...

    Thanks for your suggestion regarding the Pioneer elite sc.

    Is it because you doubt that, at 80 wpc, the avr 3600 will not put eought power to drive the rti10?

    Is 140 wpc from Pioneer more than 80 wpc from avr 3600? Is Pionneer on the warm side like hk? I was looking for an warm avr that would match the Rti.

    I think you are right:
    "8 channel direct input: when an optional external source with discrete 7.1 analog audio output cabability, connect that unit surround back output jack here."

    So, I guess it can't be used to power the avr 3600?

    Many thanks

  10. #10

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    Honest opinion I had the HK3600 for about a week before going to the Pioneer SC35 and I wasn't a fan. However it was my first HK so you might like it more if you're used to the brand. I felt the HK was warmer but it lost a lot of detail on the upper end and I used it with and without an external amp. I also didn't like the setup mic at all and it was doing crazy things with my distances and channel levels also. The Pioneer isn't as quite as warm but it's very detailed and dynamic with a better overall sound with the Rti's imho. I'm not trying to talk you out of the HK, i'd give it a shot and see it its what youre looking for, it might be exactly what you want. Just my .02
    Theater Room: Pioneer Elite SC-35, RTi12's, Csi5, Fxi5's, Fxi3's, ED A5-350 sub, Optoma HD20, 92'' Elite Screen, Xbox One, APC H15, MIT Exp 2 SC's, Pepster PC's

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    Outdoor: Polk Atrium 5's, Yamaha Rxv371

  11. #11

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    I was going to buy the H/K AVR-3600 for my H/T that uses the RTi-10's for front L & R, due to it being rated as a warm receiver. The plan originally was to pick up an amp to run the front speakers and use the 3600 to drive the surrounds. Then I started to research the Pioneer SC series receivers and decided to buy the SC-35 as a stand alone receiver without the amp. I believe I made the right choice for me, and don't plan on adding a seperate amp any time soon. The SC-35 has plenty of power for my setup and sounds great for movies. I use seperate systems for 2 channel.
    Home Theatre.............

    Pioneer SC-35
    Polk RTi10's Fronts
    Polk CSiA6 Center
    RTi4 Surrounds
    SVS PB-12 Sub


    2 Channel.............................

    Yaqin MC-100B
    Energy RC-70 Speakers
    Arcam CD-192 Disc Player
    Van Den Hul Interconnects

  12. #12

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    I might give a try with the Pioneer SC-1227-K that is on sale and compare with hk 3600.
    Any opinion on the sc 1227?

    Remember that I want a avr to will match my rti10 that tend to be on the bright side.

    A good 2 channels music listening experience is the main goal, then movies... and PLEASE...don't tell me do go with lsi!

    Thanks for your help!
    Last edited by Parachoute; 01-21-2013 at 09:54 PM.

  13. #13

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    It is 125 h/k wpc, 2 channel driven, 85 amps, 53 lbs. I consider it quite beefy (at least compared to the avr 3600 which is 32 lbs and 80 wpc.
    I must have read the wrong specs and the picture I saw must have been a different AVR.

    I heard that the avr 8000, at a bench test, was more powerfull than some dedicated 200 wpc amp...
    While it's not unheard of that a piece of gear bench tests a bit better than it's rated power specs the gap between 125 wpc and 200 wpc is way to large to be bridged. Whoever said that was dreaming.

    I might give a try with the Pioneer SC-1227-K that is on sale and compare with hk 3600.
    Any opinion on the sc 1227?
    That appears to be a Canadian model. I'm not sure off the top of head what the US equivalent would be. It does have the D3 class amps, so that's a good thing. It will easily outperform the HK.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    Ah ok, I was writing while you posted the pic. It appears those are for analog RCA multi-channel connections for a DVD or SACD player. There appears to be a function description just out of the frame, what does it say?
    I think it is feasable. Beside the pre out of the avr 8000, there are amplifier inputs (with jumpers) that can be connected to pre out of another receiver (avr 3600). That way, I should be able to use the powerfull amp section of avr 8000 to pwer the avr 3600.

    ? Amplifier Inputs: When the jumper pins that link the Preamp Outputs • with these inputs are removed, these jacks may be used to connect an external source or the AVR 8000's multiroom system to the internal amplifiers.

    In that case, does anybody know at what level should the avr 8000 set at?

    Thanks

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    I would agree with F1 on this. Go with SC series if you can. To drive RTi, you will need power. I used to have HK. They are warm, but pio will be better as far as RTis go.

  16. #16

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    I just got a Yamaha RX-A2000 and I absolutely love it. Strongly recommend it or any of them in that line. A big step up from my Denon. They power my RTI A7s with little to no effort!
    Front- RTI A7,(powered by ADCOM GFA 5500)
    Center- CSI5,
    Surrounds- RTI 6 and Rear Surrounds- TS 15.
    TV-Panasonic P55ST50
    SUB-SVS PB10-NSD and PSW505
    Receiver- Yamaha Aventage RX-A2000

  17. #17

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    Hey guys,
    I finally received the hk avr 3600 and the pioneer avr sc-1227-k (pretty much the same as sc-63 for you guys in the us).
    Overall, I prefer the pioneer. More dynamic, not too up front and room for speakers to breath (sorry for my lack of words for audio comparison!). In addition, the app from pioneer to control the receiver + airplay features are very cool. My only concern is about the volume level that I can get out of the pioneer (very low compared to the hk). I get a better sound quality from the pioneer but less volume. Am I missing something? I compared with the same audio source (analog input from an ipod) in pure direct mode and it's night and day. I got the pioneer from an open box, could it be defective or am I missing a setting somewhere.
    Thanks again for your help,

  18. #18

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    oh, I forgot to mention that it is in stereo mode with the 2 front speakers set at 0 db in the MAAC settings.

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    I think you should re=check all the connections. That Pioneer AVR has pretty good power. May have a jumper that is a little loose or something like that.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpf65 View Post
    I think you should re=check all the connections. That Pioneer AVR has pretty good power. May have a jumper that is a little loose or something like that.
    I know that it has good power. I can fell it in sound quality (crisp, detailed, dynamic, bass very tight, etc.) but not in volume... I will re-check all connections but I doubt that it is the problem since it sounds sooo good.

  21. #21

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    Is your Pioneer set for Night Listen mode by any chance ?
    Home Theatre.............

    Pioneer SC-35
    Polk RTi10's Fronts
    Polk CSiA6 Center
    RTi4 Surrounds
    SVS PB-12 Sub


    2 Channel.............................

    Yaqin MC-100B
    Energy RC-70 Speakers
    Arcam CD-192 Disc Player
    Van Den Hul Interconnects

  22. #22

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    It's gonna be a tad bright no matter what power you will use. The RTi series was engineered to be bright "dynamic". A tube buffer between your source for music and the AVR may help soften the sound.

    IMHO...it's nuts to keep the L R settings at 0db. Max them out and see what you think. MCAAC does more than just set volume. You are working the amp(s) way harder than needed and introducing distortion by sticking with those output settings.
    "My wife likes my rig......HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!"


    B&W CDM 1NT; B&W CDM CNT; Infinity us 1; Velodyne DEQ-8 x2; Pio Elite VSX-23; Sony SCD-CE595 SACD, Marantz CD5001, [/COLOR]

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by larry777 View Post
    Is your Pioneer set for Night Listen mode by any chance ?
    Nope, I did reset everything and still get low volume (at least nothing to do with my old avr8000 or the avr3600). I went back to the store, tried another pioneer avr... and still low volume. I guess that's the way it is. Maybe someone who has a sc-1227-k or a sc-63 paired with rti10 will chime in and corroborate.

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