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  1. #31

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    Mystery, I believe you missed my point but that's OK. Thanks for giving me your opinion. I appreciate it.
    SDA 2BTL Sonicaps Mills resistors RDO-198s New gaskets H-nuts Erse inductors Crossover upgrades by westmassguy
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  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystery View Post
    I don't believe it'll cause anything. DC voltage will go to SDA driver/s of other speaker with IC connected but this is important to check SDA drivers' phase.
    If you don't test SDA drivers, even if you have all other drivers in phase, speaker as a whole won't be in phase if SDA driver is not in phase.

    IC disconnect may help other kinds of troubleshooting.
    With the IC cable disconnected, both drivers will receive power from the battery, and should be in-phase
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
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  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by TennMan View Post
    Mystery, I believe you missed my point but that's OK. Thanks for giving me your opinion. I appreciate it.
    It was how I tested SDA's plus a question as well but looks like westmassguy below cleared that.

    Quote Originally Posted by westmassguy View Post
    With the IC cable disconnected, both drivers will receive power from the battery, and should be in-phase
    I was assuming without IC cable, it doesn't get full power from only that speaker and harder to detect movement as I don't hear anything without IC cable from SDA driver.

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  4. #34

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    Not sure if i can help clear some thing up or not but here is my effort;

    When performing the battery test it should not matter if the interconnect cable is hooked up or not when checking one speaker cabinet at the time. if someone was to wire both cabinets in parrallel and test both cabinets at the same time, this would not work properly. Since the battery is not frequency dependant as an AC source may be, it would then be trying to move the dimensional drivers both in phase through the large inductors and out of phase through the sda connection, at the same time. (This is a simplified expalantion and in no way tries to account for all of the electrical and physical anomlies that are actually occurring). But again as long as only one cabinet is checked at a time which is the normal way to perform this test, it will not matter if the SDA cable is connected or not because the only path that will complete the electrical circuit will be through the large inductor for the bass circuit on the dimensional drivers, which is in phase with the stereo drivers.

    Now my effort to help explain another point brought up earlier in this post as well;

    The operation of the dimensional circuits works by combining both , the signal from the right channnel and the signal from the left channel in an out of phase condition. By doing this, when the signal to the left and right channel is the same this signal is cancelled out and is not played by the dimensional drivers. Essentially the circuit is trying to reproduce the sound from one channel by moving the driver out while also trying to produce the exact same sound from the other channel by moving the driver in (or 180 degrees out of phase) this essentially cancels that signal. so it is not played at all and only the parts of the L/R signal that are different from each other are played by the dimensional drivers (except the bass frequencies). This description is overly simplified and not exact, from either an electrical or physical properties standpoint, but should give the basic concept.

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by Mr. Bubbles; 02-27-2013 at 03:35 PM.

  5. #35

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    OK, this is being overthought. The simplest way to check that the drivers are wired correctly in the individual speaker, is one at a time, with the IC cable disconnected. Connecting the IC cable brings other variables into the equation, and depending on the type of 1.5 volt battery being used, it's age, AA, AAA, C, D etc, the combination of the two speakers may be too great a load, and the cones may not move noticeably, if they move at all. A SYSTEM phase check should be done after the individual speakers have been checked, with the IC cable in place and through the amp as explained in the SDA Troubleshooting Guide.
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
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  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by westmassguy View Post
    OK, this is being overthought. The simplest way to check that the drivers are wired correctly in the individual speaker, is one at a time, with the IC cable disconnected. Connecting the IC cable brings other variables into the equation, and depending on the type of 1.5 volt battery being used, it's age, AA, AAA, C, D etc, the combination of the two speakers may be too great a load, and the cones may not move noticeably, if they move at all. A SYSTEM phase check should be done after the individual speakers have been checked, with the IC cable in place and through the amp as explained in the SDA Troubleshooting Guide.

    The cable brings nothing else into the equation as long as only one cabinet is tested at the time. the reason for this that the electrical circuit is not completed through the opposite cabinets wiring when the source (battery power) is only applied to one cabinet. to complete that circuit the battery power would have to be applied to both the positive and negative of one cabinet, and at least the positive of the other at the same time, since this is the final portion of the electrical circuit for the dimensional drivers. The reason the drivers will move in phase to the stero drivers without the sda cable connected when playing music (and the same reason they will kove at all without completeing the SDA circuit. is the bass inductor that is in the circuit with these drivers to make them play in phase with the stero drivers in the bass region. If not for this inductor, they would not move in phase with the stereo drivers when performing this test, and bass output of the system would be weak when playing music.

    However, if one feels more comfortable performing this test with the cable disconnected it will not hurt the results do do so. It just want change the results either way.

    The battery type and strength is very important as you describe. I have always used a 9V with no issues. I know this is frowned upon by many but I started using one when i was way to young and ignorrent to know better and have never had a problem with this, and I used this dailey in car stero installations for over 22 years. I am not recomending that anyone else use a 9V battery, Just explaining what has worked for me.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bubbles View Post
    The reason the drivers will move in phase to the stero drivers without the sda cable connected when playing music (and the same reason they will kove at all without completeing the SDA circuit. is the bass inductor that is in the circuit with these drivers to make them play in phase with the stero drivers in the bass region. If not for this inductor, they would not move in phase with the stereo drivers when performing this test, and bass output of the system would be weak when playing music.
    Hmmm...My take. When playing music on my SDA1a's without the cable connected the dimensional driver still moves from cabinet pressure only . On later versions of SDA's even with out the cable attached you still have music going to that driver BUT without SDA signal..
    The best way to check the phase is to just take driver out and check. Black or color(blue dimensional) to red, White to negative on both sides unless marked by black tape.

    but then again if i was a newbie Bubbles your typing is very hard to comprehend.
    Last edited by pitdogg2; 02-27-2013 at 05:02 PM.

  8. #38

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    And if there's a dead short in the cable, or the other crossover, this would have no effect on the results? The point is to isolate and test each component, then the system as a whole. At least that's how I was taught to troubleshoot.
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
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    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, H-Nuts, BH5
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  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by westmassguy View Post
    And if there's a dead short in the cable, or the other crossover, this would have no effect on the results? The point is to isolate and test each component, then the system as a whole. At least that's how I was taught to troubleshoot.

    ding ding ding.....correctomoondo

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by pitdogg2 View Post
    Hmmm...My take. When playing music on my SDA1a's without the cable connected the dimensional driver still moves from cabinet pressure only . On later venisons of SDA's even with out the cable attached you still have music going to that driver BUT without SDA signal..
    The best way to check the phase is to just take driver out and check. Black or color(blue dimensional) to red, White to negative on both sides unless marked by black tape.

    but then again if i was a newbie Bubbles your typing is very hard to comprehend.
    Not sure what later versions you mean here with music still going through withoutsda cable connected. i am not arguing that because Ai have not seen or heard all modles. but electricall (going by the crossover schematics) this could not be the case. The drivers moving without the cable is the case with all of these modles not from cabinet pressure but because the drivers are still playing very low frequencies in the bass range. This is due to the inductor in this circuit i mentioned earlier. You do not hear the mmusic on these because the mid bass, mids etc are not passing through the dimensional circuit since that circuit is not completed also as i described earlier when discussing the battery test.

    I also agree the best test to determine proper phase is th check the wiring (given that the qwiring has not been tampered with). the battery test should only be used as a prelimanary test and a system polarity test should also be performed as described by westmassguy earlier.

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by westmassguy View Post
    And if there's a dead short in the cable, or the other crossover, this would have no effect on the results? The point is to isolate and test each component, then the system as a whole. At least that's how I was taught to troubleshoot.
    If this were the case it would still not effect the test described if this problem were in the other cabinet as the circuit would still not be complete on that side of the circuit. The circuit would only be complete on the side you are applying battery power to. which is the cabinet you have connected the battery to and not the other. Now if both cabinets were connected to battery at the same time as I described earlier this would definately cause a problem, but so would the normal wiring, as i also described earlier. But by the same token if this were the case a polarity check would not be much of a concern until this issue was resolved. I am not trying to play semantics, just giving an electricaly correct (though not thoroughly detailed) descritiopn of what is going on in the circuit and how it can be tested with the test suggested by someone else. I have personally never used this test in home audio as there are much better and more thorough ways of determining if the circuits are correct.

  12. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by westmassguy View Post
    And if there's a dead short in the cable, or the other crossover, this would have no effect on the results? The point is to isolate and test each component, then the system as a whole. At least that's how I was taught to troubleshoot.
    That is the point of my first post that started this conversation about testing speakers for proper phase with a battery. If you are going to do a test on one speaker you can't get good results by allowing other speakers or components to be included in the test.

    I don't agree that taking the driver out of the cabinet is the bests way to test speaker drivers to make sure they are in phase. To me doing that is just checking the wires for a proper connection. The battery test, if done correctly, will visually allow you see the direction all the MWs move at the same time to confirm they are in phase, (moving the same direction). The battery test is also a good indication that all the wiring is connected correctly all the way from the speaker terminals on the back all the way to the MWs. At least that is the case with my CRS+.
    SDA 2BTL Sonicaps Mills resistors RDO-198s New gaskets H-nuts Erse inductors Crossover upgrades by westmassguy
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  13. #43

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    Great speakers, I have the SDA2's and I love them.

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