Best Tuning Freq

[KaosTsoc]

Hello all,
I am glad to say that I now have tunes back in my truck. The MM6501's are all hooked up, and they are running active. I have the subs hooked up too. It all sounds good for now, then again I have not had any tunes in like 2 months. So, what I need now, is to figure out what I should have the Tweets, and mid woofers tuned to? I am still in the break in period so, I just need to know what would be a good starting point? Also at the amp what should I have the mid woofer filter set to? At the moment it is set to full range, and the tweets are set to HP. Not really sure if that is right or not? I want to get these set correclty so I dont hurt my investment. I am looking up stuff on here as well, but that is long list of threads to go through. So, any help would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks.

[pentoncm]

I would recommend HPF on woofer at 50 or 60Hz at 24db/octave filter - Linkwitz/Riley if possible. LPF the woofer and HPF the tweeter at 4 kHZ and it should work good. I definitely would not run the woofer wide open on the high end side because it has really bad cone breakup in the treble frequencies.

[KaosTsoc]

I would recommend HPF on woofer at 50 or 60Hz at 24db/octave filter - Linkwitz/Riley if possible. LPF the woofer and HPF the tweeter at 4 kHZ and it should work good. I definitely would not run the woofer wide open on the high end side because it has really bad cone breakup in the treble frequencies.

Not really sure I follow you. I am brand new to tuning so, I am still green here. When you say HPF the woofer, are you talking about the 6 1/2's. Then you say LPF the woofer, I assume you mean the sub?

Thanks.

[pentoncm]

The LPF on the woofer is to stop high frequencies from going to the woofer. The MM's exhibit cone breakup = distortion at high frequencies. So you should run an LPF on them that matches where you put the HPF on the tweeter. When I contacted Polk, they recommended not going higher than 4kHz on the woofer. Mind you I am using 24db/octave linkwitz filters on everything.

My settings

Woofer, HPF 50Hz, LPF 4kHZ
Tweeter, HPF 4kHZ
Subwoofer, LPF 50Hz

[KaosTsoc]

Sorry pentoncm, been meaning to get back to you on this thread, just been super busy. At any rate I hope you can help me a little more. I do apologies in advance for this long post, but I been meaning to put this out here any way so, you have a better background on what I have, and how it is set up.

Not sure if what I have set up now is right. For the most part all the settings that is on the HU now, is what was on there when I turned it on. I made some minor adjustments, but at the moment that is where everything is at. Now, for some background on how I have set up, on the amp as well.

Alpine PDX-F6 4 channel: Channels 1 (driver side) & 2 (passenger side) have the tweeters on them only, and I have the HPF turned on these channels. Channels 3 (driver side) & 4 (passenger side) have the door woofers on these only, and have it running full/open. (I might need to put the LPF on, but not really sure). I set it up this way so that I could dedicate the channels for the tweeters, and door woofers.

At the moment it sounds pretty good, but there are a few things that a lacking on the mid/high end of things, like a sax, or wind instrument. I don’t know what fq that is in, but I am looking it up as well. I can hear them, but I have to really listen to hear them. Also on the high end the high hat, and snar seem to come in a bit brighter than I am wanting. So, I would like to know if what I have as far a FQ, slope is right. And also want to know which bands I would need to increase, and decrease to get the high hat, and snar to come down, and also get those fq that are kind of hiding so to speak to come up, and out a little more.

Current Settings at HU:
FQ/Slope:
Low LPF: FQ: 80 (+3) / Slope: -18
Mid HPF: FQ: 50 (-2) / Slope: -18
Mid LPF: FQ: 5k (-2) / Slope: -18
High HPF: FQ: 4k (-5) / Slope: -12

Band:
50Hz (+5)
80Hz (+3)
125Hz (+3)
200Hz (+3)
315Hz (+1)
500Hz (0)
800Hz (0)
1.25kHz (0)
2kHz (0)
3.15kHz (0)
5kHz (+1)
8kHz (0)
12.5kHz (+3)


Setting I have access to via head unit.
FQ:
Low LPF: 31.5 – 40 – 50 – 63 – 80 – 100 – 125 – 160 – 200 (Hz) +/- 0dB / -24dB
Mid HPF: 31.5 – 40 – 50 – 63 – 80 – 100 – 125 – 160 – 200 (Hz) +6 dB / -24dB
Mid LPF: 1.6 – 2 – 2.5 – 3.15 – 4 – 5 – 6.3 – 8 – 10 – 12.5 – 16 (kHz) +6 dB / -24dB
High HPF: 1.6 – 2 – 2.5 – 3.15 – 4 – 5 – 6.3 – 8 – 10 – 12.5 – 16 (kHz) +6 dB / -24dB

Slope:
Low LPF: -36 / -30 / -24 / -18 / -12 (dB/oct)
Mid HPF: -24 / -18 / -12 / -6 / pass (0) (dB/oct)
Mid LPF: -24 / -18 / -12 / -6 / pass (0) (dB/oct)
High HPF: -24 / -18 / -12 / -6 (dB/oct)

Bands:
50 Hz (+6 / -6)
80Hz (+6 / -6)
125Hz (+6 / -6)
200Hz (+6 / -6)
315Hz (+6 / -6)
500Hz (+6 / -6)
800Hz (+6 / -6)
1.25kHz (+6 / -6)
2Khz (+6 / -6)
3.15kHz (+6 / -6)
5kHz (+6 / -6)
8kHz (+6 / -6)
12.5kHz (+6 / -6)


Any help would be great as always, and much appreciated. The good thing is I am not playing my stuff at high volume so, I hope that helps me there as well.



Thanks

[pentoncm]

Okay I will try to be brief.

(1) Move your tweeter HPF to 18db/octave. Also move your sub to 50 Hz and 24db/octave. Move your mid LPF to 4kHz. I assume your only choice for xover is butterworth. Most of the time higher xover slopes are better but a 4th order Butterworth at 24db/octave results in a +3db peak at the crossover point. 18db/octave actually gives you a flat response which is easier to deal with.
18db/octave should work fine for your mids and tweets. Using 24db on the sub will keep the bass localized up front and will give you a little bump at the crossover frequency and won't cause a problem unless are a true bassophile.

(2) You have way too much boosting. You aren't fixing response peaks, you are just adding more.

Here are my EQ recommendations - these are only approximate and will require tweaking.

50Hz 0db
80Hz -2db to -5db
125Hz -2db to -4db
200Hz -2db to -4db
315Hz -2db to -5db
500Hz 0db to -1db
800Hz -2db
1.25kHz -1.5 db to -3db
2kHZ -2db to -5db
3.15kHZ -4db to -6db
5kHZ -3db to -5db
8kHZ -3db to -5 db
12.5kHZ -4db to -6db

Do you have Left/Right control of your EQ?

[KaosTsoc]

I do have Time Alignment, and L/R control as well, but it is a little limited on the L/R. The time alignment Im not so worried about right now, as I like the L/R in the center.. For now... I do like the have a little more bass, but nothing like an SPL person would want. Just a bit more beef, but not over board. Will adjusting the bands like you have help bring out the under tones more or will it quite it down? And as far as the amp setting goes is what I have ok as well?


Thanks

[pentoncm]

I do have Time Alignment, and L/R control as well, but it is a little limited on the L/R. The time alignment Im not so worried about right now, as I like the L/R in the center.. For now... I do like the have a little more bass, but nothing like an SPL person would want. Just a bit more beef, but not over board. Will adjusting the bands like you have help bring out the under tones more or will it quite it down? And as far as the amp setting goes is what I have ok as well?


Thanks

You will get more true Bass with the suggested settings. It should make everything more realistic sounding. How exactly is the the L/R control limited? Are you referring to Balance control? So you don't have an EQ for the left side, and an EQ for the right side? I prefer to have the center of my image directly in front of me, this is where TA is necessary.

Also turn off all of the filters on the amp. Only use the ones on the HU.

With all of the cutting, you will have to raise the volume on the HU by a few notches. This is a good thing because the detail of the music will come out.

[KaosTsoc]

That is correct. The HU does not give me the ability to do independent L/R tuning.

So, by turning the filter on the amp to full/none it wont hurt the tweeters? Which is a concern, but considering that the HU is doing most of the filtering it my be over kill. Which makes sense.

I dont mind turning up the volume all that much. I do like my music a little brighter, and punchy than some others. So, with the settings you suggested will give me a good starting point on a more natural scale, which is good. Oh the pleasures of tweeking... Sometimes its not, but when its right is so worth it. I will report back once I get this down. thanks again for you help.

Thanks.

[KaosTsoc]

Ok, so I put those settings, and it sounds good to me. The only thing that I noticed I am losing is the low bass. For some reason it seems as though the low end after the 50Hz range gets lost, or not being pick up by the subs or something. Now with me having an active 3 way crossover system I dont have a seperate sub woofer control option on the HU just what I listed above. So, how do I get the sub to pick up the bass a little more. The door speakers seem to do just fine at the 50hz range, its the sub that seems to be lost, or not there. So, how do I get my subs to pick up more of the bass. not a whole lot, but just a bit more. I wonder if I Low LPF on the HU to say 30Hz, then adjust the amp cut off for the door speakers to they dont go below 50hz? Would this work??

Thanks

[pentoncm]

Try reversing the phase on the sub. Do this at the HU or at the amp.

[KaosTsoc]

Ok. I can try that. Question though, how does reversing the phase help me out? I do know what happens physically to the sub if you reverse the phase, but not sure how from a sound stand point it will help..??


Thanks.

[pentoncm]

The purpose of time alignment is to set up your system so that the sound of each of your drivers hits your ears at the same time. You generally want this because when sound is out of phase it causes cancellation. We are most sensitive to phase with frequencies lower than 500Hz. So because your sub is in your trunk, it takes longer for you to hear the bass coming from it than it does the bass from your door mids. Hence, you get cancellation at the bass frequencies. You have two options.

(1) Use time alignment to delay your front drivers so that the bass from the sub gets to you at the same time as the sound from your mids. This is where you leave the delay on your sub at 0 and then start delaying your front channels until you can hear it move up front.

(2) Reverse the phase of the sub, this creates a time delay that most likely will get your sub more in phase with your door mids. Its not perfect, but a quick and dirty improvement.

[KaosTsoc]

I dont think I have a phase switch for my subs. I do understand what TA is for, just not at the point where I want to use it. I will use it though. As far as the location of my subs. They are right behind me, I drive an access cab tacoma, so I dont have a trunk. Sorry for not putting that out there. The box is a 1.2 or 1.5 CU inch sealed box, and the subs are down firing. as well. I did turn up the volume over the weekend to see how it worked, and the good thing is it sounded good. Loud clear, and hittin hard. There are a few bands that need to be tweeked, but over all a pretty good start. The other good thing is the subs are still intact. I have read where turning up te voume too much will mess them up etc. I dont mind the mids doing most of the work, but I want to get the subs to work just a little bit harder, but I dont want to over push them, or the door speakers. Still figureing out how to do this. However I think were I am at now is good for break time.

Thanks.

[pentoncm]

If you don't have a phase switch, swap the positive/negative speaker wires going from the amp to the sub. This accomplishes the same thing as a phase switch.

[KaosTsoc]

Just wanted to drop a quick update to my speakers, and break in. I am so digging my set up, the tuning freq's that were suggested here worked out so well to break in. I ended up putting some of slopes at -12 to help break them in a little more, and get a little more bass. Cant help it, I like a little more of than some of you guys, but that is what this hobby is about anyway. What you like, and what sounds good to you. Again thanks for all your help on this, and all the info on this forum. I also need to post pics of my install too, but just been so busy. I have not had a chance. My little 2 month old rug rat is taking up most of time at the moment, but I need to get them loaded for all to see, cause Im proud of my work, and I know you guys like to see these too.


Thanks