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  1. #1

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    Default Possible Issues with Long IC run from TT to pre?

    So I'm thinking of changing my layout a little bit. Currently I have my TT under my TV which is mounted to the stand. The stand is a Salamander Synergy Series which everything but my amps currently fit into.

    What I'm thinking is getting another Synergy stand to match what I have now but have it as a single stack and move the TT and phono stage off to the side of the room and then run a longer pair of IC's back to the pre amp in the main rack.

    I've heard a rumor before that you should keep TT IC's lengths short as possible but didn't know if that was more from the TT to the phono stage or from the stage to the pre amp.

    The reason I'm thinking this is so that I could free up some room in the main stand in case I wanted to go wit ha bigger DAC or Richard Gray unit in the future. Right now I'm using every plug in on the Gray so would be looking to upgrade to the 1200 unit.

    The other option is getting the extension pieces for the stand I have and add on another layer however it was a pain enough to get the mount on let alone take it back off and on again. Name:  IMG_0315.jpg
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  2. #2

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    TT and outboard phono stage on one stand, and preamp on the other should be fine. The outboard phono stage should have no problem driving longish ICs. I run 15ft RCAs from my preamp to PC when transferring vinyl to CD, and have not encountered any noise issues. Running long ICs from TT to phono stage is an entirely different matter, where you're likely to have a lot of noise and hum pickup, and loss of high frequencies due to excessive cable capacitance. BTW, nice system. I use Salamander Synergy S40 single and S20 twin stands respectively for my 2-channel and HT systems.
    Last edited by Glen B; 03-09-2013 at 09:58 PM.
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  3. #3

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    If it's a traditional turntable & pre-amp then the interconnect should be kept short. Say 1 to 2 meters (3 to 6 feet).
    A t.t interconnect interacts with the cartridge and the first stage of the pre-amp in a different way than a typical interconnect.

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    I looked at doing a long run about 6 months ago and spoke to VPI and they were pretty adament that i should NOT go longer than about 3ft with my IC's.
    Shot down my whole planned layout but they are the experts.
    Hope this helps

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    You will still get music with long interconnects but it will affect the high frequency equalization.

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    I believe mantis said a few weeks ago that they use RG6 cables running very long lengths in his custom installs. I have some 2M MIT's Proline that I could let you borrow.
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  7. #7
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    Nice system Chris!
    Last edited by pepster; 03-10-2013 at 12:17 AM.

  8. #8

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    Long cables between a turntable (i.e., one with no built in preamp/EQ) and the phono input of a preamp, integrated amp, or receiver can result in HF rolloff due to cable capacitance. An outboard phono preamp/EQ (as many of us use today) will output a line-level signal; as long as the output impedance of the phono preamp is low (e.g., a vacuum tube cathode follower or solid state equivalent buffer), the cables between the phono preamp and the 'destination' preamp, integrated amp, or receiver can be quite long (up to 50 feet, e.g., for a typical cathode follower).

    Last edited by mhardy6647; 03-10-2013 at 08:41 AM.
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    I agree with everyhting that 'mhardy' wrote. (well 50 feet is pushing it for many pre-amps)

    But the unit in the photo is just so wrong in so many ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pepster View Post
    Nice system Chris!
    Hell yes! Those speakers are simply Amazing.

    Going long between phono pre and pre use some good shielded cables Chris. I've done 18 feet SE here using stranded center conductor coax between pre and active crossover/amp. Zip, nada, no noise/hum.
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  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedskater View Post
    I agree with everyhting that 'mhardy' wrote. (well 50 feet is pushing it for many pre-amps)

    But the unit in the photo is just so wrong in so many ways.
    :-) chock full of goofy verbiage, ain't it? Dafug is "cryogenetics" [sic]!? :-)

    I'd absolutely agree... and I'd be embarrassed to say that it were mine - if I hadn't, as the company's name demands, "just listen[ed] to it". Their current offerings are much more aesthetically designed... pricier, too.

    EDIT: oh, and I'd like to point out that the alligator clip lead in the photo is an audiophile clip lead.

    come to think of it, you might really enjoy this experimental test-bed photo of the JLTi preamp (set to MM gain) fronted by Silk SUTs (rather than using the JLTi's higher gain setting for my LOMC) :-)



    oh, and the 50 foot cable length is quoted from vintage EICO literature on their cathode follower inputs. I'd agree that most modern hardware probably wouldn't be too happy being loaded with 50 feet of even "audiophile interconnects" (and I'd still recommend staying as short as possible no matter how low impedance the MM/MC preamp/EQ's output might be) :-)
    Last edited by mhardy6647; 03-10-2013 at 04:40 PM.
    all the best,
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    Thanks for the info. Not sure of the length yet but will be around 10ft or more from the phono stage into the pre amp. That's not going to be a cheap pair of shotgun s3. Eck!
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  13. #13

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    The boxes in between the cables matter the most (IMO, of course).
    Last edited by mhardy6647; 03-10-2013 at 07:53 PM.
    all the best,
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    If you don't listen to vinyl all the time, one good solution is the Bugle (or the new Bugle2). They operate on two 9 volt batteries and are available in kits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cstmar01 View Post
    Thanks for the info. Not sure of the length yet but will be around 10ft or more from the phono stage into the pre amp. That's not going to be a cheap pair of shotgun s3. Eck!
    As was mentioned before, what you are proposing, 10 ft. from phono stage to preamp should not be an issue, as long as your cable from the TT to the phono stage is 6 ft. or shorter, where shorter is better. I use RGB component video cables from all of my turntables to the phono stage. RGB cables are low in capacitance by design spec. I bought two 6 ft. long component video cables, I then peeled one of the cables away from the other two, leaving enough cables to connect three turntables.

    With that being said, if you are using a moving coil cartridge, low capacitance cables are not as much of a requirement as they are with MM carts. With MM carts, audio cables from the phono stage to the preamp are fine, but component video cables, or other low capacitance cables, should be used from TT to phono stage.
    Last edited by classic carl; 03-13-2013 at 03:24 PM.
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