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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    Aaron,

    Ever been to Callaway's or Taylor Made's or Ping's website or seen their ads on TV or print. Each tout the latest greatest new polymer-titanium-bonded-flex proof shaft with some sort of space age composite head with adjustable weights and loft. Do they tell the truth about their product or other products on the market? Do they claim theirs is the best? Of course they do (in case you didn't know the answer) I would say $500 for a driver is insanity and snake-oil and not worth it at all. But there are many golfers out there that pay it, believe it, and might even play a little better because of it (atleast psychologically). It doesn't make them wrong, or wasteful or that the company lied or misled, etc.

    You may not know but Phil and I go back a bit, met at a couple Polkfests and we each have a slightly different perspective and enjoy a good debate although he is wrong .

    My point is I'm tired of the rhetoric about cost/snake oil/fleecing/profit, etc. as if this is the singular industry this happens in. It's a fact of free enterprise. And if enough people didn't find value in higher end items, then they wouldn't be in business.

    H9
    Brock, this is an audio forum after all so my comments are about audio gear even though it holds true with all industries. The point I was trying to make about audiophiles being a mark for manuf still holds true. Now when I say mark that is a broad term & doesn't necessarily apply to all manuf. or buyers. Most manuf. offer solid gear at fair prices to keep them in business. What gets my goat is when I see & read about a particular piece of gear (let's take an amplifier as an example).

    Said amp sells for 50K or more...yikes. Now please, please explain to me that that piece isn't targeted for a particular mark (customer), someone with lots of money & who likes to spend it. That amp manuf. along with the dealer, salesperson, mag articles, advertisements are all geared to convince said mark (customer) that he simply can't be without the best amp for his setup. If you popped the hood on the amp what do you think you'll find in regards to parts cost? Not a whole lot I'll bet you. As far as I can tell there haven't been any ground shaking advancements in amp design, parts, etc over the last 10-15yrs that would warrant that price tag yet the manuf does everything in their power to convince you other wise. It's a niche market but boy oh boy do they ever expolit it. And if it didn't work then you wouldn't see those prices. At the end of the day if the customer is happy with his 50k purchase that's all that counts & the manuf., dealer, salesperson are laughing all the way to the bank. We'll talk about those 25k speaker cables another day!
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "
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  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by pearsall001 View Post

    Ah, come on Tony...that article was dead on, we've all bitten on the audio BS slung by the manuf. They're pros at it for sure. Live & learn.
    Oh, sure we have Phil, but those few times doesn't dictate the whole of the market. You can say the same about any consumer product. Many advertised as the best you can get only to get them home and find out they suck. This is not something newsworthy or "in case we didn't know". It's more so common sense in the fact that nobody should take marketing for any product at face value.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by pearsall001 View Post
    Brock, this is an audio forum after all so my comments are about audio gear even though it holds true with all industries. The point I was trying to make about audiophiles being a mark for manuf still holds true. Now when I say mark that is a broad term & doesn't necessarily apply to all manuf. or buyers. Most manuf. offer solid gear at fair prices to keep them in business. What gets my goat is when I see & read about a particular piece of gear (let's take an amplifier as an example).

    Said amp sells for 50K or more...yikes. Now please, please explain to me that that piece isn't targeted for a particular mark (customer), someone with lots of money & who likes to spend it. That amp manuf. along with the dealer, salesperson, mag articles, advertisements are all geared to convince said mark (customer) that he simply can't be without the best amp for his setup. If you popped the hood on the amp what do you think you'll find in regards to parts cost? Not a whole lot I'll bet you. As far as I can tell there haven't been any ground shaking advancements in amp design, parts, etc over the last 10-15yrs that would warrant that price tag yet the manuf does everything in their power to convince you other wise. It's a niche market but boy oh boy do they ever expolit it. And if it didn't work then you wouldn't see those prices. At the end of the day if the customer is happy with his 50k purchase that's all that counts & the manuf., dealer, salesperson are laughing all the way to the bank. We'll talk about those 25k speaker cables another day!
    lol. Couldn't agree more. But as you say, in the end everyone seems to be happy. No harm, no foul. Probably very few out there who are forgoing their children's opportunities at an education, because they needed top-of-the-line cable risers and magic strips of interconnect wire. People tend to buy as much as they can practically afford. Unless drugs and sex are involved.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhardy6647 View Post

    1) Becoming conversant with "the laws of physics" (and, for most hifi purposes, you can stick to the pre-relativistic, Newtonian model) will help protect one from becoming easy prey for the snake oil conglomerate.
    In audio, Newtonian physics applies to dropping an amp on your foot. It will hurt your foot, and maybe the amp. The audio portion is taking place at the atomic level, and is audible. There is still a lot to be discovered and understood at this level, and will help explain the audible differences between similar items

    Quote Originally Posted by mhardy6647 View Post
    2) Trust your ears. Listen, a lot, to as many different things as you can.
    This is good advice. Our ears are still more sensitive to detecting audible changes than existing electrical measurement tools.

  5. #35

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    I was referring to the electrical properties of amplifier topologies, crossover networks, the interaction of sound (longitudinal) waves with surfaces and boundaries... stuff like that.
    all the best,
    mrh

  6. #36
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    What Can We Tell and Not Tell Looking Inside the Box?

    This list tells us nothing as there are great speakers and designs that violate almost every item on that list. I see this article as a way to appease people who want to, or already do agree with the theories expressed, and not a learning opportunity for someone asking questions.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by zingo View Post
    What Can We Tell and Not Tell Looking Inside the Box?

    This list tells us nothing as there are great speakers and designs that violate almost every item on that list. I see this article as a way to appease people who want to, or already do agree with the theories expressed, and not a learning opportunity for someone asking questions.
    QFT.

    Too often, people just accept the status quo without trying to advance their own knowledge and understanding. In this instance, the basics are covered but they are not law. Just some suggestions to get the feet point in the right direction so to speak.
    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
    I may have an addiction... RTA-15TL, SDA 2, LSi25, LSi15, LSi9, LSi7, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LS/FX, RT/FX, DSW MP2000...and that's just the Polks...

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