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  1. #1

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    Default To toe in or not?

    So is it the design of the speaker or what? Some speakers I have now, or had in the past, sound better toed in. While some sounded better sitting straight on. My mains right now are Infinity RSIIIa's. They sound better straight. While my Kef C55's and Monitor 10's sound better (to me) toed in a bit.
    --Gary--

  2. #2

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    Post Really depends on the speakers and room.

    Really depends on the speakers and room.
    Some manufactures specifically mention not to toe-in such as Polk SDA's, Boston A400's etc... while others mention to toe-in and most don't say anything.
    Except SDA's, I have to toe-in everything on my left channel due to the weird design of my living room.
    I have to put my left speakers way to the left and right front speaker is very close so if I leave them facing front, it's hard to hear from left speaker.
    Also, in bedroom, I toe-in so I can listen at low volume.
    I have to increase volume little bit if they are not facing me.

    Boston A400,VR950, DefTech BP10,, Klipsch Forte,KSP-400,KSF-C5,RF3,RC3.
    JBL L20t,L80t3, EPI 20+,T/E 280, Polk 4,4.5,5A,7C, KEF Coda III, Yamaha NS-690, Genesis 3+.
    SUB:Deftech PF15TL+, DCM TB1010, Velodyne VA08BVX10. Pre: HK AP2500. Amps: BB175, Adcom GFA-535,555II, Rotel RB-990BX.

  3. #3

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    Default

    Yeah, I would think that depends on the dispersion pattern of the speaker and the sidewall reflection points of the room itself, if untreated. In my room, I toe in my speakers because they're widely spaced due to my projection screen.

    Ultimately, the right position is the one that sounds best.
    Equipment list:
    Onkyo TX-NR3010 9.2 AVR
    Emotiva XPA-3 amp
    Polk RTi70 mains, CSi40 center, RTi38 surrounds, RTi28 rears and heights
    SVS 20-39CS+ subwoofer powered by Crown XLS1500
    Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray player
    DarbeeVision DVP5000 video processor
    Epson 8500UB 1080p projector
    Elite Screens Sable 120" CineWhite screen

  4. #4

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    Default

    I always figured it was the speakers and room in relation to your sitting position. I don't toe in my Rti12's in my theater but in my living room I feel like my Klipsch's image much better with a little toe in.
    Theater Room: Pioneer Elite SC-35, RTi12's, Csi5, Fxi5's, Fxi3's, ED A5-350 sub, Optoma HD20, 92'' Elite Screen, Xbox One, APC H15, MIT Exp 2 SC's, Pepster PC's

    Living Room: Martin Logan EM ESL's, Peachtree Audio iNova, MIT AVT2 SC's & IC's, Pepster PC, Sharp Aquos 60'', Sony BDP S-790, Airport Express

    Bedroom: Panasonic AX200U projector, 110" screen

    Outdoor: Polk Atrium 5's, Yamaha Rxv371

  5. #5

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    Default

    I'd believe it has a lot to do with the off-axis response of the drivers used. For instance, using LSi's with no toe-in wouldn't sound nearly as good as when they were toed in. The narrow dispersion of that tweeter would cause most of its sound to be lost if facing straight ahead.

    Of course, this is outside of the realm of those specifically designed for no toe-in, such as SDA's.
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Essence Audio HDACC, Douglas IC's, Douglas Alpha bi-wire SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

  6. #6

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    Put your left toe in and move it all about, put your right toe out and than begin to shout you do the polkie pokie and turn yourself around!
    Main Rig:
    Krell KAV 250a
    McIntosh MC 2120 bi-amped
    Into JBL L123 drivers
    Rane external crossover.
    MIT exp 1 ic's
    Perreaux SA33 class A preamp
    AQ kingcobra ic's
    ADCOM GDA 700 DAC ( MODDED)
    YAMMY CDC-665
    Marantz 6100 tt w/pickering XV-15/625E cart.
    Monster HTS 3600 power conditioner
    POLK RTA-12C'S W/ RDO194 TWEETS, clarity ESA caps mills risistors (full mod)
    MIT exps2 speaker cable

  7. #7

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    Default

    Is that what it's all about?
    --Gary--

  8. #8

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    Default

    The old "Monitor Series" (5,7,10) - from my perspective - definitely benefit from being toed in (and away from walls and corners).
    Other speakers can and will vary. Quad ESL-57s, do best parallel to each other and perpendicular to the listener's line of sight.
    all the best,
    mrh

  9. #9

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    I toe in my RTA 12C'S as well as most all speakers i have owned. Just seems to sound better to me
    Main Rig:
    Krell KAV 250a
    McIntosh MC 2120 bi-amped
    Into JBL L123 drivers
    Rane external crossover.
    MIT exp 1 ic's
    Perreaux SA33 class A preamp
    AQ kingcobra ic's
    ADCOM GDA 700 DAC ( MODDED)
    YAMMY CDC-665
    Marantz 6100 tt w/pickering XV-15/625E cart.
    Monster HTS 3600 power conditioner
    POLK RTA-12C'S W/ RDO194 TWEETS, clarity ESA caps mills risistors (full mod)
    MIT exps2 speaker cable

  10. #10

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by halo71 View Post
    Is that what it's all about?
    Groan
    humpty dumpty was pushed

  11. #11

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    I am no expert on toe in or toe out, but i used to enjoy my speakers more when i was flat toe up.
    humpty dumpty was pushed

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by scottyboy76 View Post
    I am no expert on toe in or toe out, but i used to enjoy my speakers more when i was flat toe up.
    Are you sure it was the "speakers " you were enjoying? Think not! LOL
    Main Rig:
    Krell KAV 250a
    McIntosh MC 2120 bi-amped
    Into JBL L123 drivers
    Rane external crossover.
    MIT exp 1 ic's
    Perreaux SA33 class A preamp
    AQ kingcobra ic's
    ADCOM GDA 700 DAC ( MODDED)
    YAMMY CDC-665
    Marantz 6100 tt w/pickering XV-15/625E cart.
    Monster HTS 3600 power conditioner
    POLK RTA-12C'S W/ RDO194 TWEETS, clarity ESA caps mills risistors (full mod)
    MIT exps2 speaker cable

  13. #13

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    I have never cared for speakers aimed right at me; If the center of my couch is the sweetspot, I prefer the speakers aimed at each end of the couch. I believe it's a personal preference and stereo seperation thing.

    My speakers are 8ft apart, and the primary listening spot is 9ft back from the front baffles, and use about 1" of toe-in.
    Last edited by steveinaz; 03-22-2013 at 10:43 AM.

    Transport: Oppo BDP-103/USB HDD (flac)
    DAC/Preamp: Benchmark DAC/PRE
    Power Amp: Parasound HCA-1500A
    Speakers: Harbeth Compact 7ES-3 Monitor
    Cables: Kimber Hero/8TC; DH Labs D-75

  14. #14

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    As stated above, it depends on the speakers and room. But, the further speakers are toed in, the less you're listening to room reflections and the larger the sweet spot.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

  15. #15

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    Default

    The Dolby speaker placement guide also shows toed-in rear speakers

    http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/...ide/index.html
    Front Speakers: Polk Audio LSi15 x 2
    Center Speaker: Polk Audio LSiC
    Rear Speakers: Polk Audio LSiF/X x 2
    Subwoofers: Polk Audio PSW505 x 2
    AVR: Denon AVR-3313CI
    Amp: Emotiva XPA-5

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by steveinaz View Post
    I have never cared for speakers aimed right at me; If the center of my couch is the sweetspot, I prefer the speakers aimed at each end of the couch. I believe it's a personal preference and stereo seperation thing.
    I agree. Mine are toed in so the center axis of the mains is about a foot to either side of my main listening position, since that gives me the best imaging. The rest of the people in my room when I have people over? Well, they can suck it!

  17. #17

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    Default

    design of the room, acoustics of the room and acoustics of the speaker are a big factor. also using built in eq or manual are determining factors. if you're looking for the best imaging, especially with eq software, toed in is probably better in most situations. i have a friend though who doesn't really care for audyssey or any other eq enhancements and actually has his bookshelf speakers on stands toed out a little, the right a little bit more because of an angled on that side. the center is also in the most unideal position, basically floor level inside his entertainment center. sounds really good for music, and it gets the job done for movies.

  18. #18

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    I aim the tweeter of my 15's about a foot directly behind by head. If the tweeters were guns they would just miss my ears on both sides.
    2-channel
    Sources: Pro-ject 2.9 wood Grado Gold cartridge; Oppo BDP-105; Amps: Anthem Integrated 225; PS Audio GCPH Speakers: Polk - LSi15's (sub mod)


    HT
    Amps: Sony - STR-DG1000; Outlaw 200 Mono; B&K Reference 200.2; Speakers: Polk - CS2, Monitor 70's, RC80i's; Video: Optoma HD20; FAVI HD-100


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    Sources: Sony PS-LX410, Denon 3910; Amps: Dared sl2000a, HK 3490, Simaudio Moon LP3; Speakers: Polk - SDA 2A's

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