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Thread: Bi-Amp or not?

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    Default Bi-Amp or not?

    I recently purchased a pair of the LSIM 705 towers, im currently running a Denon AVR-2312 receiver that has discreet amplifiers (7) total, I did also do my system the justice of buying solid core power cables, and a power conditioner. Currently I'm using Audioquest g2 speaker wire that i had terminated with banana plugs, but will soon be upgrading to some better stuff. So, now to the question should i Bi-Amp these speakers or just keep it jumped until i get a better amp, thoughts and suggestions would be helpful! Thanks!

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    Ok, here we go again. You cannot bi-amp with an AVR, so forget about it. Replace the stock jumpers with high quality speaker cable, sit back and enjoy.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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    Polly want a cracker ? lol !!

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    Ok, here we go again. You cannot bi-amp with an AVR, so forget about it. Replace the stock jumpers with high quality speaker cable, sit back and enjoy.
    http://www.denon.co.uk/uk/Product/Pa...ductId=AVR2312

    Your 100% sure on that? Denon's website says different..

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    OK, first, I will address the "discreet amplifier" portion.
    The 2312 has individual amplifier sections (boards if you will). But that's as far as the "discreet power" goes. You will notice that it simply says "discreet power" and not "discreet power supplies"? That is because they share the same power supply. This makes it technically impossible to bi-amp using an AVR. As loads increase (adding speakers), the power being sent to each channel decreases. The AVR-2312's power ratings are with 2 channels driven at 6 and 4 ohms. Your speakers are an 8 ohm speaker which means that the amount of power is even further reduced.
    Ultimately, you are looking at the neighborhood of 80-90wpc at 8 ohms with all channels being driven...most likely less.

    Now let's address what true active bi-amping is.
    You will need seperate high pass and low pass amplifiers, an active crossover network and to remove the passive crossover from the equation.
    Simply connecting both sets of binding posts to seperate amplifiers only accomplishes half of this. The crossover inside the cabinet is still part of the equation.
    Here is the concept in illustration form:


    "Do I need to disconnect the passive crossover in my speakers?"
    The answer is ... Yes, otherwise you are not really biamping at all.

    Passive biamping (where two amplifiers are used in a bi-wiring connection) is, IMHO, a waste of money. Although there may be some moderate sonic benefits, they are not worth the expense of the extra amplifier. (And to promperly actively or passively bi-amp, you *will* need seperate amps)
    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
    I may have an addiction... RTA-15TL, SDA 2, LSi25, LSi15, LSi9, LSi7, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LS/FX, RT/FX, DSW MP2000...and that's just the Polks...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZLTFUL View Post
    OK, first, I will address the "discreet amplifier" portion.
    The 2312 has individual amplifier sections (boards if you will). But that's as far as the "discreet power" goes. You will notice that it simply says "discreet power" and not "discreet power supplies"? That is because they share the same power supply. This makes it technically impossible to bi-amp using an AVR. As loads increase (adding speakers), the power being sent to each channel decreases. The AVR-2312's power ratings are with 2 channels driven at 6 and 4 ohms. Your speakers are an 8 ohm speaker which means that the amount of power is even further reduced.
    Ultimately, you are looking at the neighborhood of 80-90wpc at 8 ohms with all channels being driven...most likely less.

    Now let's address what true active bi-amping is.
    You will need seperate high pass and low pass amplifiers, an active crossover network and to remove the passive crossover from the equation.
    Simply connecting both sets of binding posts to seperate amplifiers only accomplishes half of this. The crossover inside the cabinet is still part of the equation.
    Here is the concept in illustration form:


    "Do I need to disconnect the passive crossover in my speakers?"
    The answer is ... Yes, otherwise you are not really biamping at all.

    Passive biamping (where two amplifiers are used in a bi-wiring connection) is, IMHO, a waste of money. Although there may be some moderate sonic benefits, they are not worth the expense of the extra amplifier. (And to promperly actively or passively bi-amp, you *will* need seperate amps)
    So, with that said, what would you suggest for an amplifier? Ive got access to just about anything i need through work, currently the speakers are in a home theater system i had (klipsch) but ive been mainly listening to music lately with very little TV viewing.. I'm using a Peach Tree DAC hooked up to my system currently and its helped calm down the harsh music so far, but i need more power to the speakers clearly to make them sound like they should.

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    You may not like the sound that Klipsch offers, many don't like the horn drivers. Denon generally produces a warmer sound.

    In most cases Klipsch are one of the easier speaker lines to drive, IMHO you have a speaker your not happy with and an amp may not resolve the issue.
    Home Theater:Samsung8000-55LED,Pioneer SC35, Pioneer DV-79AVi, Sunfire TGA7201, LSi25, LCi RTSc, LC80i
    2chnl system:Melody 101 tube pre, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, W4S Dac, MG Audio Planus2 speaker cables
    Office rig: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures

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    Quote Originally Posted by txcoastal1 View Post
    You may not like the sound that Klipsch offers, many don't like the horn drivers. Denon generally produces a warmer sound.

    In most cases Klipsch are one of the easier speaker lines to drive, IMHO you have a speaker your not happy with and an amp may not resolve the issue.
    Let me try this again lol, i worded it completely wrong, I replaced my RF82's with the Polk LSIM705 speakers, and im looking to get some better sound out of the polks, im running a pro660 sub with the set-up currently and am running it as a 2.1 system b/c i dont want to drowned out the polk's with the horn tweeters..

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    Quote Originally Posted by dkoutnik View Post
    Your 100% sure on that?
    Without a doubt.

    So, with that said, what would you suggest for an amplifier? Ive got access to just about anything i need through work
    Ok, what do you have access to and how much do you want to spend?
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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    Sorry my bad got caught up in post#6.

    Surprised you are having harshness from the 705's, as I have listened to the whole LSiM line several times and actually the 705's are my favorite.

    refer to what F1 asked

    Welcome to CP
    Home Theater:Samsung8000-55LED,Pioneer SC35, Pioneer DV-79AVi, Sunfire TGA7201, LSi25, LCi RTSc, LC80i
    2chnl system:Melody 101 tube pre, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, W4S Dac, MG Audio Planus2 speaker cables
    Office rig: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures

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    I have access to Integra, Macintosh, Rotel, sony, and a few others, ive worked in the business for 2 years, but ive never dealt with "Higher End" just the simple denon, yamaha, HK, etc.. pricing isnt much of an issue, but i dont want to spend 20k or 10k on a macintosh system. looking to spend no more then 2500.00

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    Quote Originally Posted by txcoastal1 View Post
    Sorry my bad got caught up in post#6.

    Surprised you are having harshness from the 705's, as I have listened to the whole LSiM line several times and actually the 705's are my favorite.

    refer to what F1 asked

    Welcome to CP
    As far as harshness, the speakers are great with most of my music, but i also use some streaming services and thats typically where i have the DAC coming into play..

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    Ok, not on your list, but I'm going to recommend it anyway. Bel Canto and LSi M's go very well together. Add some MIT cables and you're in for a real treat.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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