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  1. #1

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    Default Amp advice, Sub advice

    For starters i am pretty new to this, my bookshelf system died after 10 years a month ago and i decided to upgrade or start a home theater system. My first plan was to just buy a intro level receiver, a pair of book shelf speakers and a sub. Well, currently i now have a set of Tsi 400( bi amped), Tsi100 for rear, cs10 center channel, a dsw660 pro, and a 1600 dollar pioneer elite sc-65(scored at bestbuy for 800!)...needless to say i was bitten hard by the audio bug. I realize its not nearly as nice as most of the people in this forum but i think it sounds beautiful! But already i want more power from my two main fronts. MY questions are, should i bother adding another amp to this setup? Or should i wait till i buy better fronts? if yes what kind of amp should i be looking for? Also can i add a 550pro or a 440 pro to this set up? Ive heard that if you have two subs they should be the exact same model, it this accurate? Thanks to all for any advice

  2. #2

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    The first advise I would give you is to replace the jumper on the 400's, and wire it with one strand from your AVR. There is really not that big of a benefit from the ways your mains are wired than a single from an AVR.

    If you want to add a 2nd sub, I would suggest a second 660. Much easier to dial a 2nd sub that is the same as the 1st, be it size, series, or manufacturer.

    Congrats on your system, you should be happy with it. Adding an ampisn't necessarily for loudness, but for clarity. Your speakers can only produce so many db, and then bad things happen to them. Amps are for clean power, sonic clarity, and enough power cieling to prevent speaker damage. With that said, a good quality amp, with high current out put wouldn't hurt. You have pre outs, so it's only finding what you like.

    Welcome to Club Polk

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpf65 View Post
    The first advise I would give you is to replace the jumper on the 400's, and wire it with one strand from your AVR. There is really not that big of a benefit from the ways your mains are wired than a single from an AVR.

    If you want to add a 2nd sub, I would suggest a second 660. Much easier to dial a 2nd sub that is the same as the 1st, be it size, series, or manufacturer.

    Congrats on your system, you should be happy with it. Adding an ampisn't necessarily for loudness, but for clarity. Your speakers can only produce so many db, and then bad things happen to them. Amps are for clean power, sonic clarity, and enough power cieling to prevent speaker damage. With that said, a good quality amp, with high current out put wouldn't hurt. You have pre outs, so it's only finding what you like.

    Welcome to Club Polk
    Thank you for the advice. should i use the gold plated connectors that came with the speaker, or use piece of monster cable to connect the duel posts, i assume if i wire with monster cable i will have to use a banana plug to come out of the speaker. currently ive got bananas just on the back of the avr not the speakers..

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    Welcome to Club Polk.

    By all means amp up your mains, or if you can swing it get a 5 channel amp of at least 200wpc and listen to all of your speakers operate to their full potential. If you have a 2nd sub hook up on your receiver and the space to put a second sub, I think you will enjoy the improvement there as well. I have found that when I added a second amp the bass was more balanced since they are on opposite sides of my front speakers.

    You have a great many choices with amps for new reasonably priced amps look at Outlaw Audio and Emotiva. If you have no problem buying used look for those as well as Rotel, Sunfire, Adcom, Nad, B&K, Parasound.

    Take your time, do your research, and save more money. I'm a big believer in doing it once and doing it right the first time around.
    Sunfire TGP III PrePro, Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature 405wpc 5 ch. Amp, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Onkyo TA2600 Tape Deck, Pioneer Elite 47-A DVD, Sony 32" XBR TV, Polk RTA-8T Main Speakers, Boston VR-920 Center Channel, Boston PV-600 Subwoofer, Polk DSW 400 Subwoofer, Polk FXi-3 Surround Speakers

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    Quote Originally Posted by cfrizz View Post
    Welcome to Club Polk.

    By all means amp up your mains, or if you can swing it get a 5 channel amp of at least 200wpc and listen to all of your speakers operate to their full potential. If you have a 2nd sub hook up on your receiver and the space to put a second sub, I think you will enjoy the improvement there as well. I have found that when I added a second amp the bass was more balanced since they are on opposite sides of my front speaker

    You have a great many choices with amps for new reasonably priced amps look at Outlaw Audio and Emotiva. If you have no problem buying used look for those as well as Rotel, Sunfire, Adcom, Nad, B&K, Parasound.

    Take your time, do your research, and save more money. I'm a big believer in doing it once and doing it right the first time around.
    Awesome! Thank you for taking time to answer my question, I believe a 5 channel amp is in my near future, now its just figuring out how to sneak it into the house with out the woman noticing :)

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    So refering to the bi amped fronts, ive heard that the difference is debatable between running single or bi amping, now if i added another amp would i want to bi amp at that point? I'm wondering why they have it if you cant even notice a difference. I guess my question is what situation would you bi-amp?
    Last edited by voight1; 03-26-2013 at 07:44 PM.

  7. #7

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    Would the Emotiva XPA-5 be the correct amp for me to buy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by voight1 View Post
    Would the Emotiva XPA-5 be the correct amp for me to buy?
    Yes it will do a fine job, and with that much power, the biwiring would not be needed, unless you have an absolute need for more wires.
    Sunfire TGP III PrePro, Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature 405wpc 5 ch. Amp, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Onkyo TA2600 Tape Deck, Pioneer Elite 47-A DVD, Sony 32" XBR TV, Polk RTA-8T Main Speakers, Boston VR-920 Center Channel, Boston PV-600 Subwoofer, Polk DSW 400 Subwoofer, Polk FXi-3 Surround Speakers

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    Voight,

    If I were in your shoes with that receiver, I would upgrade the front speakers before spending money on an amp. The TSI line is pretty easy to drive with even a midrange receiver, your Pioneer will do just fine on them. Upgrading the speakers will improve your sound quality far more than adding an amp at this point. Also money would be well spent on an SVS or HSU subwoofer when you upgrade speakers.

    My best advice for you, right now, don't run out and start buying stuff. Do some research, stick around, ask questions, read up on some threads before making any buying decisions.

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    +1 Tony, he's got a heafty AVR there which will drive a lot of speakers just fine. If it we're me, I'd at least consider upgrading the frontstage before I bought an amp. However, all roads lead to goodness, he's got a great foundation for a killer system. Shop around for subs, I understand the 660 is no slouch, so either trade up or add a second. :) Good luck!

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    Thank you Tony and Cody! I agree. I think my first step will be to upgrade my fronts. I bought the pioneer ( class d amp and 4 ohm rated) thinking it would be enough with the setup I have. I know my speakers are not 4 ohm rated but i was thinking for down the road it would be good to have, same reason i got one with pre-outs. Im happy to hear that you guys think i got a good avr, i did my research! I still want to add another amp as soon as possible, but i agree better speakers is probley money better spent at this point. Do you have any advice on a great pair of fronts, I was thinking i want 4 ohm rated towers( RTiA 7 or RTiA9), but if the rest of my speakers are rated at 8 ohms how does that work, or not work?? Will the RTiA series blend okay with TSi series?
    Last edited by voight1; 03-27-2013 at 06:29 PM.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by voight1 View Post
    Thank you Tony and Cody! I agree. I think my first step will be to upgrade my fronts. I bought the pioneer ( class d amp and 4 ohm rated) thinking it would be enough with the setup I have. I know my speakers are not 4 ohm rated but i was thinking for down the road it would be good to have, same reason i got one with pre-outs. Im happy to hear that you guys think i got a good avr, i did my research! I still want to add another amp as soon as possible, but i agree better speakers is probley money better spent at this point. Do you have any advice on a great pair of fronts, I was thinking i want 4 ohm rated towers( RTiA 7 or RTiA9), but if the rest of my speakers are rated at 8 ohms how does that work, or not work?? Will the RTiA series blend okay with TSi series?
    No doubt these guys would tell me the same thing, However, when I first joined this club back in 04 it was with the intentions of purchasing new speakers. I wanted the LSI's, but was told that my Denon 3802 couldn't handle them. So I purchased a Parasound 1500A 205wpc amp to power them. Once I hooked up the amp to my RTA 8-T's I discovered EVERYTHING I was missing by just having a receiver drive them.

    As you can see by my signature I STILL have my RTAs. Just about all of my electronics out price my speakers, but my speakers never sounded so good until I upgraded my electronics!

    I think the constant advice to upgrade to better speakers has more to do with the cost than anything else. Everyone feels that below a certain price level the speakers aren't "worthy" of the price of an amp. My feeling is until you hear what your current speakers are truly capable of once they are operating to their full potential, you are possibly spending money that doesn't need to be spent at least not yet on speakers.

    Keep in mind that you can use an amplifier through ALL other upgrades to your electonics and speakers. This is why I recommend an amp to hear what your speakers are capable of before upgrading them first.
    Sunfire TGP III PrePro, Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature 405wpc 5 ch. Amp, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Onkyo TA2600 Tape Deck, Pioneer Elite 47-A DVD, Sony 32" XBR TV, Polk RTA-8T Main Speakers, Boston VR-920 Center Channel, Boston PV-600 Subwoofer, Polk DSW 400 Subwoofer, Polk FXi-3 Surround Speakers

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    +1 on what cfrizz said. I have been all over the place with speakers in the past 2 years with several changes. I have finally added 2 Parasounds to my rigs and the world has changed.
    Main Family Room: Sony 46 LCD, Sony Blue Ray, Sony DVD/VCR combo,Onkyo TXNR 708, Parasound 5250,
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    Living Room: Belkin PF60, Parasound HCA2200, MIT ProlineEXP balanced IC's,Emotiva XDA-1 DAC/Pre,Emotiva ERC2 transport,MIT AVT2, Polk LSI 9's.

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    Wow.......I think the problem here is that your both "right". On one hand i know the TSi series dosent sound as nice as the RTiA's that i want, but on the other hand how do i know what my Tsi's are capable of until i have them fully powered with a nice amplifier..... you really dont think my pioneer is powering my speakers to there full potential?

  15. #15

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    once again i appreciate the advice from everyone
    Last edited by voight1; 03-27-2013 at 07:50 PM.

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    I think cfrizz's suggestion is very good as well. You can't go wrong with either path, both lead to success! Good luck.

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    I seriously doubt it Voight, most receivers just can't do it, maybe in 2 channel mode but once you start adding more speakers the power drops. Then add in an intense scene and the need for more power increases and before you know it, the receiver is tapped out and struggling to keep up.

    Until you hear the difference for yourself you won't know what you are missing. Hearing is believing/knowing.

    You will still need to get an amp to power any of the RTIA series so why not get the amp in place and hear what it can do for your current speakers then be able to hook it up to new speakers from the get go if you do decide to upgrade your speakers.
    Sunfire TGP III PrePro, Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature 405wpc 5 ch. Amp, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Onkyo TA2600 Tape Deck, Pioneer Elite 47-A DVD, Sony 32" XBR TV, Polk RTA-8T Main Speakers, Boston VR-920 Center Channel, Boston PV-600 Subwoofer, Polk DSW 400 Subwoofer, Polk FXi-3 Surround Speakers

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    Quote Originally Posted by cfrizz View Post
    I seriously doubt it Voight, most receivers just can't do it, maybe in 2 channel mode but once you start adding more speakers the power drops. Then add in an intense scene and the need for more power increases and before you know it, the receiver is tapped out and struggling to keep up.

    Until you hear the difference for yourself you won't know what you are missing. Hearing is believing/knowing.

    You will still need to get an amp to power any of the RTIA series so why not get the amp in place and hear what it can do for your current speakers then be able to hook it up to new speakers from the get go if you do decide to upgrade your speakers.
    +1 cfrizz. Very good point!! do you think i can handle wiring the second amp myself, never done it before..

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    If you have pre-outs on your AVR you won't have any problem getting the amo wired up
    Home Theater
    Onkyo PR-SC5508 Sharp LC-70LE847U
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    Two Channel
    Oppo 105D BAT VK-500 w/BatPack SDA SRS 2.3 Dreadnought Squeezebox Touch Apple TV

  20. #20

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    You will have no problems at all. You will only need the correct number of ICs to go from the amp to your receiver, then hook up the speakers to the amp, sit back and enjoy.
    Sunfire TGP III PrePro, Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature 405wpc 5 ch. Amp, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Onkyo TA2600 Tape Deck, Pioneer Elite 47-A DVD, Sony 32" XBR TV, Polk RTA-8T Main Speakers, Boston VR-920 Center Channel, Boston PV-600 Subwoofer, Polk DSW 400 Subwoofer, Polk FXi-3 Surround Speakers

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    sounds good, what's the deal with pre-amps? do i need one? what purpose do they serve?

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    Your receiver is a preamp, & amplifier all in one box. To go with separates you would need a preamp (brains) and an amp (brawn) each component just hast to do it's own thing. My system is made up of separate components. Most people want it all in one box aka receiver which is fine, but the receiver has to make a compromise somewhere so that they can put in all the latest & greatest doohickies. So that usually means the amplifier section isn't what it should be. That is why we always recommend that people spend more money on receivers that have preouts to add separate amplification later on.
    Sunfire TGP III PrePro, Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature 405wpc 5 ch. Amp, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Onkyo TA2600 Tape Deck, Pioneer Elite 47-A DVD, Sony 32" XBR TV, Polk RTA-8T Main Speakers, Boston VR-920 Center Channel, Boston PV-600 Subwoofer, Polk DSW 400 Subwoofer, Polk FXi-3 Surround Speakers

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by cfrizz View Post
    Your receiver is a preamp, & amplifier all in one box. To go with separates you would need a preamp (brains) and an amp (brawn) each component just hast to do it's own thing. My system is made up of separate components. Most people want it all in one box aka receiver which is fine, but the receiver has to make a compromise somewhere so that they can put in all the latest & greatest doohickies. So that usually means the amplifier section isn't what it should be. That is why we always recommend that people spend more money on receivers that have preouts to add separate amplification later on.
    ahhh i see, glad I did my research and got an avr with preouts...thanks again for helping me out, sorry for such a dumb question..
    Last edited by voight1; 03-28-2013 at 08:16 PM.

  24. #24

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    No apologies necessary, you can't learn without questions. I'm enjoying helping you so ask away.
    Sunfire TGP III PrePro, Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature 405wpc 5 ch. Amp, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Onkyo TA2600 Tape Deck, Pioneer Elite 47-A DVD, Sony 32" XBR TV, Polk RTA-8T Main Speakers, Boston VR-920 Center Channel, Boston PV-600 Subwoofer, Polk DSW 400 Subwoofer, Polk FXi-3 Surround Speakers

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    okay cfrizz I've got another question for ya, what are the 12 volt triggers used for on my avr? And where do I input my list of equipment so it shows up under my posts? Also on another note I ordered my second DSW Pro 660wi last night, should be coming tomorrow, I cant wait!! I got it from Crutchfield for 580.00 and they threw in a free pair of Polk artium4's. Thought this was a pretty sweet deal if anyone is in the market for a 660. This worked out perfect for me because I had wanted to put some speakers on my back porch so I can listen to tunes while I'm in the hot tub. Also i added another pair of tsi100 for my front height, which brought me up to a 7.1 system, played around with the speaker setup on my avr and was able to get the speakers where i wanted them, performance wise. So I'm happy .....for now Once again thank you to any and all for advice/knowledge!!
    Quote Originally Posted by cfrizz View Post
    No apologies necessary, you can't learn without questions. I'm enjoying helping you so ask away.
    Last edited by voight1; 04-30-2013 at 03:36 PM.

  26. #26

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    A 12 volt trigger is to turn on a piece of gear that doesn't turn on automatically when you turn on your system. You would plug the cable into the piece of gear and then into your avr. when you turn on your avr, the gear will turn on with it.

    I got one to turn on my Rotel cd player but it would make an awful thumping noise when I did. I took it out and now just push the button.

    Sounds like you are having a great time Voight, now start saving money for a 5-7 channel amp.
    Sunfire TGP III PrePro, Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature 405wpc 5 ch. Amp, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Onkyo TA2600 Tape Deck, Pioneer Elite 47-A DVD, Sony 32" XBR TV, Polk RTA-8T Main Speakers, Boston VR-920 Center Channel, Boston PV-600 Subwoofer, Polk DSW 400 Subwoofer, Polk FXi-3 Surround Speakers

  27. #27

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    Would the Emotiva XPA-5 be the correct amp for me to buy? May anyone please suggest me ?

  28. #28

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    Yes the Emotiva will be just fine to power just about any speakers that you have now and in the future. What does your system consist of?
    Sunfire TGP III PrePro, Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature 405wpc 5 ch. Amp, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Onkyo TA2600 Tape Deck, Pioneer Elite 47-A DVD, Sony 32" XBR TV, Polk RTA-8T Main Speakers, Boston VR-920 Center Channel, Boston PV-600 Subwoofer, Polk DSW 400 Subwoofer, Polk FXi-3 Surround Speakers

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