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  1. #1

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    Default Do you need a sub, for SDA 1C's for 2 channel music??

    Dose anybody think that a set of SDA1C's needs a sub for 2 channel music?? The only reason i ask is Pearsall, seems to think i'm missing something. Indeed his system is big and massive..but geared to HT stuff, altho he dose play stereo music on it. He dose say this may be personal preference but states in electronic theory and this and that it's needed. So OK...I can understand if your running a tower speaker...ok you may need some help on the bass. But SDA's are NOT tower speakers. The 1C's don't need help on bass at all.(at least in my opinion)

    To come close to the bass the 1C's put out, i would have to pay 500+ easy for a used sub.

    So i guess i'm missing something in the thinking here, or...he is just wrong, or he likes massive bass or something else. It is possible that a 1K sub may give you some more "accurate" bass....but i'm not really sure your could hear the difference......

    Just asking, but i don't see the $$$ value in a sub on 1C's for 2 channel. If anyone has a different point, please say it.

  2. #2

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    A sub is not needed but a good sub will help reach deep areas that the 1c cannot reach.

  3. #3

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    Nope, not at all. Just last night with material that has low bass I was rattling my windows at a fairly modest level. Perhaps if you are trying to fill a VERY large room it might help. But subs aren't needed in a 2ch system if you choose your gear wisely.

    Most recorded music doesn't really play below the 1C's threshold. Sure there is some, I'm sure, but for the most part unless you are listening to organ music the frequency the 1C's cover is just fine.

    H9
    Last edited by heiney9; 03-30-2013 at 04:04 PM.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

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    Sometimes I think my 1C have more bass than my 2.3tls.
    I never use tone controls or boost the bass (or treble) with them.
    That said, remember music never, now action movies I have two PSW505 subs
    for my 2.3tls it gives the movie that intended overstated bass depth that I like.
    Why 2 because they are played at a low non straining level, just enough for that rumble
    of the tanks and starships. I think that is what he means, try it, have fun!

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    yeah H9...i was just downstairs listening to music..In a LARGE room 17X30 and i sit 15 feet back.

    The 1C's have no problem at all with pounding you with bass. So yeah Pearsall's set up is massive and great. But for 2channel music...and the fact that most classic rock, or rock is not completely bass heavy. Not sure i see the point to spend 1K for a sub, that could keep up with the 1C's.

    I just don't see why it would be worth while..at least for me.

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    That is just you.

  7. #7

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    I have measured my 1Cs flat down to 18hz (-3db)
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
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    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs

    Ofc: Wright WLA12 preamp: Anthem Amp 1: Pio Elite DV-79AVI: Airport Express: CAL Sigma II DAC: PA LS90 sonicaps and mills

  8. #8

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    Nope ..no problem..yes it's just MY opinion. But all the people who say this have large HT systems..and Tower type speakers .NOT strait 2 channel systems.....





    The problem with all these big HT systems is your dealing with..what is..at least 4 speakers in the room, at min besides the sub....LOL



    I have 2 stereo speakers sitting in a large room..which i have no problem with bass. BUT i also have 2 other sets of speakers sitting there doing nothing. The RTi12's are just too big can't really put them in any place. But i have a set of old large Advents, which maybe i could stick in the back of the room.



    In that case. with the 1C's in front.to hook up those for a lark behind you...your brains would be blown out, and the thought of a sub..would pretty much be long gone....LMAO



    Sounds stupid..but since i have them...well maybe sometime i will try it out....LOL
    Last edited by naturallight; 03-30-2013 at 06:18 PM. Reason: spelling

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by naturallight View Post
    Not sure i see the point to spend 1K for a sub, that could keep up with the 1C's.

    I just don't see why it would be worth while..at least for me.
    Your 1C's would have no chance against a good $1k+ ID sub, no chance. Sure people might have measured the 1c's down to 20hz but they won't have the authority down there like a good sub would.

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    And your point would be??
    OK you spend 1K+ on a sub....so some how thats going to kick your butt and sound better then a 1C..If you have the cash..rock on.

  11. #11

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    I don't foresee me ever putting a sub in my 2 channel with SDA's..
    Hot Rodded SDA 1.2TL's, SDA 1C's, SDA CRS+'s...
    Powered By Wyred 4 Sound, STP-SE, SX-1000...
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  12. #12

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    I use my SVS 20-39PC sub sith my 1C's on occasion- some music it adds to and others it doesn't. I do have a less than optimal setup due to the room so that probably factors into it at as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toolfan66 View Post
    I don't foresee me ever putting a sub in my 2 channel with SDA's..

    +1 on that.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by naturallight View Post
    And your point would be??
    OK you spend 1K+ on a sub....so some how thats going to kick your butt and sound better then a 1C..If you have the cash..rock on.
    So what's the point of ANOTHER thread if all you're going to say "if you have the cash rock on"? You seem to rather ask these types of questions over and over and over again instead of trying this out for yourself and you always seem to answer the question for yourself.

    There's a ton of these " do I need a sub for 2 channel" threads.

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    Quote Originally Posted by george daniel View Post
    +1 on that.
    Don't knock it if you haven't tried it. I thought that way too, until I came across a deal on a pair of Tannoy TS-12 subwoofers. Intended for my ht, I put them next to my 1.2's, some careful setup and level matching, and there staying there, for good! I only notice them if I turn them off, the grunt is missing. The other big advantage is you can put your mains in the best location for imaging and soundstage, which is likely to be different than the best location for bass response.
    Two Channel-SDA SRS 1.2tl's,modded. Carver a-753x, Technics 1200mk2, Nad 515bee,Soundstage vacuum two pre
    HT-Denon avr3808ci,Carver a-753x,Panasonic ae4000 projector,120" screen,ps3,wii console w/full rockband,Panamax conditioner,dbx120 subharmonic synthesizer,jvc dvd-a player, Polk RTi12 mains,Polk CSiA6 centre, Energy ES-18xl sub,two custom 10" powered subs, Def Tech bp2x surrounds(4),Paradigm monitors-rear(2)

  16. #16

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    Well thats a stupid answer considering..not alot of people have well over 1K to spend on a sub..plus if they don't think there speakers need it in the first place..so you have not said much at all to get anybody to do this.....

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by naturallight View Post
    Well thats a stupid answer considering..not alot of people have well over 1K to spend on a sub..plus if they don't think there speakers need it in the first place..so you have not said much at all to get anybody to do this.....
    Is that my post your calling stupid?
    Two Channel-SDA SRS 1.2tl's,modded. Carver a-753x, Technics 1200mk2, Nad 515bee,Soundstage vacuum two pre
    HT-Denon avr3808ci,Carver a-753x,Panasonic ae4000 projector,120" screen,ps3,wii console w/full rockband,Panamax conditioner,dbx120 subharmonic synthesizer,jvc dvd-a player, Polk RTi12 mains,Polk CSiA6 centre, Energy ES-18xl sub,two custom 10" powered subs, Def Tech bp2x surrounds(4),Paradigm monitors-rear(2)

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by allstock View Post
    Don't knock it if you haven't tried it. I thought that way too, until I came across a deal on a pair of Tannoy TS-12 subwoofers. Intended for my ht, I put them next to my 1.2's, some careful setup and level matching, and there staying there, for good! I only notice them if I turn them off, the grunt is missing. The other big advantage is you can put your mains in the best location for imaging and soundstage, which is likely to be different than the best location for bass response.
    Guys,, excuse my ignorance,, but what is ht?
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by george daniel View Post
    Guys,, excuse my ignorance,, but what is ht?
    Home Theater.
    Two Channel-SDA SRS 1.2tl's,modded. Carver a-753x, Technics 1200mk2, Nad 515bee,Soundstage vacuum two pre
    HT-Denon avr3808ci,Carver a-753x,Panasonic ae4000 projector,120" screen,ps3,wii console w/full rockband,Panamax conditioner,dbx120 subharmonic synthesizer,jvc dvd-a player, Polk RTi12 mains,Polk CSiA6 centre, Energy ES-18xl sub,two custom 10" powered subs, Def Tech bp2x surrounds(4),Paradigm monitors-rear(2)

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by allstock View Post
    Home Theater.
    Everyone hear is aware of that, some of these members are strictly 2 channel only.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by allstock View Post
    Home Theater.
    Quote Originally Posted by gudnoyez View Post
    Everyone hear is aware of that, some of these members are strictly 2 channel only.
    I'm sure he was just kidding... Lol

  22. #22

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    Just trying to liven it up a tad,,I'm strickly a L&R old guy.I've experimented with a few subs with SDA's,,I prefer the SDA's w/o a sub. I did however,hear a pair of 2.3 tl's(my crossover work,,ahem) with and w/o a sub,,,DSOTM,, and I honestly could not tell if the sub was on(except when it was really turned up),,but's thats just me,,,,or maybe it was chemically induced.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)

  23. #23

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    Many people run their subs "hot" for two channel which gives a false impression of added bass. It's simply playing louder than the speakers. I'm sure in some instances where placement and room size dictate, a musical sub could help for 2 channel. But in most cases, if it's properly integrated, you hardly notice it because it's unnecessary as the large SDA's reproduce every frequency you tend to find on recorded music. Unless of course you are listening to organ music, or some other extra ordinary recording that specifically has very low bass content. In my entire collection I can only think of a handful of recordings that play really, really low and while a good sub *might* hit a tad lower for these specific recordings, I am not lacking when I can rattle lamps and windows with my 1C's.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by leroyjr1 View Post
    So what's the point of ANOTHER thread if all you're going to say "if you have the cash rock on"? You seem to rather ask these types of questions over and over and over again instead of trying this out for yourself and you always seem to answer the question for yourself.
    Wow you took the words out of my mouth. Thanks!!!

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    Many people run their subs "hot" for two channel which gives a false impression of added bass. It's simply playing louder than the speakers. I'm sure in some instances where placement and room size dictate, a musical sub could help for 2 channel. But in most cases, if it's properly integrated, you hardly notice it because it's unnecessary as the large SDA's reproduce every frequency you tend to find on recorded music. Unless of course you are listening to organ music, or some other extra ordinary recording that specifically has very low bass content. In my entire collection I can only think of a handful of recordings that play really, really low and while a good sub *might* hit a tad lower for these specific recordings, I am not lacking when I can rattle lamps and windows with my 1C's.

    H9
    Agreed that novice's tend to be a little heavy-handed with subs, whether it be two-channel or HT. My SDA's are in a 12'X30' living room, which has two large openings into the main floor(2000 sq ft, open concept), as well as the main foyer which is open into the upstairs mezzanine. There is no "false impression" of added bass. Oh btw, if your lamps and windows rattle, you should address that, it really distracts from your listening experience.
    Two Channel-SDA SRS 1.2tl's,modded. Carver a-753x, Technics 1200mk2, Nad 515bee,Soundstage vacuum two pre
    HT-Denon avr3808ci,Carver a-753x,Panasonic ae4000 projector,120" screen,ps3,wii console w/full rockband,Panamax conditioner,dbx120 subharmonic synthesizer,jvc dvd-a player, Polk RTi12 mains,Polk CSiA6 centre, Energy ES-18xl sub,two custom 10" powered subs, Def Tech bp2x surrounds(4),Paradigm monitors-rear(2)

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    Just "what" are you guys with the subs in an SDA two channel set up listening to that requires that amount of extra bass. I can't even imagine what musical venues your sampling?

    I run the smaller 2Bs and I've got a sub in my closet I don't even bother to take out. Now if you want to turn your room into a ghetto-bass-mobile why not just enter a "contest"? As I understand it, a number of members here have tricked out their rides to produce Atomic Bass! lol

    cnh
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  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by allstock View Post
    . Oh btw, if your lamps and windows rattle, you should address that, it really distracts from your listening experience.
    Only happens on very select low bass material.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  28. #28

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    for low vol, I don't think my 1Cs put out enough bass. for 60hz and below, I let my sub adds a little more bass, even I run my 1Cs full range

  29. #29

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    In my opinion, a good 2-channel SDA setup should not need a sub. I have 4.1TL's, and I wouldn't dream about adding a sub, even with the smallest of SDA's. Definitely do not need it. I owned 1C's prior the the 4.1's, and with those you definitely don't.

    I suspect that if you're finding the bass in your SDA's to be lacking, you need a new power amp, not a subwoofer. With my Krell, the last problem I'll ever need to solve is a lack of bass.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by allstock View Post
    Don't knock it if you haven't tried it. I thought that way too, until I came across a deal on a pair of Tannoy TS-12 subwoofers. Intended for my ht, I put them next to my 1.2's, some careful setup and level matching, and there staying there, for good! I only notice them if I turn them off, the grunt is missing. The other big advantage is you can put your mains in the best location for imaging and soundstage, which is likely to be different than the best location for bass response.
    I will pass.. Not only am I 99.9% sure I don't need a sub with my 1.2 tl's but the thought of daisy chaining them into the mix is a deal breaker in it's self..

    I can think of other areas I would spend the coin on..
    Hot Rodded SDA 1.2TL's, SDA 1C's, SDA CRS+'s...
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