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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZLTFUL View Post
    According to JD Power, no. Toyota will have far fewer repairs versus Volvo.
    112 problems per 100 vehicles for Toyota compared to 149 problems per 100 vehicles for Volvo.

    http://autos.jdpower.com/ratings/dep...ss-release.htm
    You missed the entire point. Toyota probably has more cars in recall in a given year then Volvo sells. The more product you move the larger your total pool of defects.

    I would expect more complaints publicly of a Chevy/Toyota etc than a Volvo or Subaru.

    Again I am posting pics of cable that is still in great shape after 3 years. The OP can go with MonoPrice, Belden, whatever. You and I do not know in the light of how much cable they sell vs what has a legit problem.

    If I as a company sell 100K HDMI cables and have 200 go bad and another company has sold 10K cables and has 20 go bad you are going to see the public # of complaints follow accordingly.
    So hot it burns twice

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Habanero Monk View Post
    You missed the entire point. Toyota probably has more cars in recall in a given year then Volvo sells. The more product you move the larger your total pool of defects.
    As an educated consumer, I prefer to go off of percentages.
    Which is why a static set of numbers was used in my example.

    Let's move it to an even smaller static number.

    1 Toyota versus 1 Volvo.
    Statistically, the Toyota will have 1.12 problems that require service in the first year of ownership. The Volvo will have 1.49 problems during that same time frame.

    I am all about statistics and minimizing my chance for failure.
    Regardless of volume, a product that has a higher number of reported failures per 100 has a greater chance of failure.
    It is a simple concept.

    Again, I reiterate that *any* cable can potentially fail.
    But I would recommend a product with a lower failure rate regardless of how much is produced over a product that has more documented cases of failure.
    It is simple risk assessment. You weigh the odds and you play the game accordingly.
    In audio, I prefer to minimize risk in any way that I can.
    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
    I may have an addiction... RTA-15TL, SDA 2, LSi25, LSi15, LSi9, LSi7, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LS/FX, RT/FX, DSW MP2000...and that's just the Polks...

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZLTFUL View Post
    As an educated consumer, I prefer to go off of percentages.
    Which is why a static set of numbers was used in my example.
    100% with you there. But while for automobiles you have concrete data for cables you don't. You don't have any idea of the %'s of defect involved with MonoPrice, Monster, AQ, etc...

    What you can not say with any authority or any factual backing is the percentages.

    Can one still get Monster Cable pretty cheap on closeout or is the stuff you see at Accessories for Less/ Ebay etc the real deal or counterfeit? Then by all means get that.

    I think Monoprice moves a lot of cable. I believe that volume is going to generate more overall negative reviews. Just like you reasonably linked to. But it doesn't mean that everything MonoPrice ships is junk.
    So hot it burns twice

  4. #34

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    hi jacked from another audio forum

    A few years ago I found that the speaker cable runs to my main speakers had severely corroded. To the point where when I sectionned them there was very little copper showing in cross-section. For fun I replace one run with brand new 12 gauge oxygen-free cable, and left the other intact. We''re talking about 16-20 foot runs. Then I A-B''d the two. Swapped the cables and did it again. Not exactly a proper experiment, but the result was a bit surprising: I couldn''t tell the two apart.

    and the following, not sure if the statement below is from a wire-cable supplier-manufacture? so take it for what it is worth,

    Green speaker wire shows a sign, showing the speaker wire is turning bad and it needs replacing. If you see a green color inside the insulation of the speaker wire, it shows that the wire is damaged from copper oxide. Once the speaker wire turns green, the wire is no longer a decent electrical conductor. This is because the copper oxide is not a conductive substance as pure copper and it makes the signal sent to the speaker degraded. Although you can still use the green speaker wire for your audio needs, but you will have a decrease in sound quality.

    more info

    http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#introduction
    Last edited by hosedagain; 04-18-2013 at 12:19 PM. Reason: add

  5. #35

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    Something else to think about. I've got an old Philco tube radio, made in 1941. The wire in it is made of good old regular copper, nothing "oxygen free" about it. In fact it's probably less pure than ordinary lamp cord made today. Yet if you cut into a strand of wire, the copper is still...copper. No oxidation from within, no green tarnish.

    And copper artifacts have been unearthed that are thousands of years old. No oxidation from within, and the copper refining techniques back then were hardly even up to 1940's refining technologies.

    Here's one article discussing how undercured Teflon wire insulation caused release of fluoride inside the wire, corroding the wire underneath. http://www.residues.com/pdfs/foresite_teflon.pdf

    PVC insulation is the common clear speaker wire insulation, and it is well known to outgas chlorine if improperly cured or used in certain conditions (like in a vacuum). PVC insulation is no longer allowed on aircraft. Audioholics measured electrical data of various speaker cables here and the end of the article also notes the PVC outgassing in their samples. http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/c...ble-face-off-1
    Last edited by hosedagain; 04-18-2013 at 01:10 PM. Reason: change

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Habanero Monk View Post
    100% with you there. But while for automobiles you have concrete data for cables you don't. You don't have any idea of the %'s of defect involved with MonoPrice, Monster, AQ, etc...
    No...and to an extent, I won't argue that.
    But, again, as educated consumers, it is our duty to study what data we *do* have available to us.
    In this case, I went to Amazon and did a "generic" comparison of the reviews. Assuming that we are using the same type of criteria (50 reviews each of Monoprice 2m HDMI cable vs Audioquest 2m HDMI cable) then we can extrapolate the general "quality" of the item.
    If, out of 50 reviews for Monoprice's offering, we find 21 reviews that rate it at 1 or 2 stars due to various reasons and Audioquest's offering has only generated 3 reviews of 1 or 2 stars, we can *safely* make the assertion that you are less likely to get a bad product from Audioquest than you are from Monoprice.

    Again, we are talking generalizations but the information used to make our conclusions isn't random or made up but based on real world reviews of those products.

    So I still argue that given the choice between a cheaply priced product that has a higher percentage, in general, of negative reviews or a slightly higher priced product that, in general, has a higher percentage of positive reviews, I am more likely to spend a little bit more and be sure than spend a little bit less and have the worry of negative reviews hanging over my head.

    "The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read or write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn and relearn." Alvin Toffler
    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
    I may have an addiction... RTA-15TL, SDA 2, LSi25, LSi15, LSi9, LSi7, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LS/FX, RT/FX, DSW MP2000...and that's just the Polks...

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Habanero Monk View Post
    Or post pics of pristine 3+ year old MonoPrice cable. Anybody can take any brand and go on the internet find problems. People never report the stuff that goes right..
    Wrong. See several people here do use better cables they have no problems with and then post their findings. However those findings are often then disputed by others claiming that they are hearing things and wasting money.

    See, we do like to report things that go right. Others always try to tell someone their wrong.

    I agree that you were just trying to point a finger at Jesse again (like you always have to try and prove him wrong) when its been shown several times mono price doesn't have the best cables etc.

    I have yet to see a thread about the others that have issues with their cables from Blue Jeans or Signal etc turning green.

    Also I had a mono price HDMI, failed about 3 months after I got it, wouldn't pass the signal anymore. Upgraded to a different one and worked like a charm.
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  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by cstmar01 View Post
    Wrong. See several people here do use better cables they have no problems with and then post their findings. However those findings are often then disputed by others claiming that they are hearing things and wasting money.

    See, we do like to report things that go right. Others always try to tell someone their wrong.

    I agree that you were just trying to point a finger at Jesse again (like you always have to try and prove him wrong) when its been shown several times mono price doesn't have the best cables etc.

    I have yet to see a thread about the others that have issues with their cables from Blue Jeans or Signal etc turning green.

    Also I had a mono price HDMI, failed about 3 months after I got it, wouldn't pass the signal anymore. Upgraded to a different one and worked like a charm.
    You are 100% correct that yes people do report the stuff that goes well. I shouldn't have said that. I'm not saying MP has the best. What I can tell any party is my first hand experience (like the others). Sometimes that is good experience, other times not so much.
    So hot it burns twice

  9. #39

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    Just connect the wires carefully and according to the colors. Then hope it will work well.

  10. #40

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    As a former alarm installer I can tell you that even contacts do turn green and tarnish so bad that it will caause a false alrm or just go open.Now w/ wire the same can happen but I think it depends more on where one lives like near the coast or what type of heating one has .It does happen but it takes along time. Me I'm not calling anyone out here but I have seen tarnished wire for myself.

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