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  1. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperZ View Post
    And he is already denied his Miranda rights.
    There is a legal exception to this. Which you know.

    Quote Originally Posted by ViperZ View Post
    How do you know that he is guilty? Because police said that he is guilty?
    The police don't determine guilt/innocence. And neither do I. Courts do. But to say no evidence has turned up yet linking these two is...

    Quote Originally Posted by ViperZ View Post
    So you'll be happy that he is declared guilty, you have no idea what happened, closed deal?
    Actually, I'm not happy about any of this. It's very sad all the way around, other than the pride I feel for our law enforcement personnel.

    Quote Originally Posted by ViperZ View Post
    What if YOUR constitution rights were violated, you were taken off the street, thrown into jail with no rights, declared terrorist and never fairly tried?
    Again, there is an exception for Miranda for situations like this. And, no trial has happened yet. He hasn't even been arraigned. So I'm not sure about your claim disputing a fair trial. I will say, that if I terrorized a city for two days, committed multiple murders, shot and threw munitions at law enforcement, etc etc etc... yes, they should take me off the street and throw me in jail.

    Quote Originally Posted by ViperZ View Post
    Somehow when your constitutional rights are violated when your government wants to perform background checks before people buy guns, you all go crazy, but when a person gets arrested, gets denied his Miranda rights with no clear evidence, that's ok. Why not just publicly lynch him? F*k his rights, screw the constitution, which you all are so eager to defend when it affects only YOU personally, right?
    Actually, 90% of Americans approve of background checks in the sale of weapons. It's Congress (and lobbies) that kill that every time.
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  2. #152

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    Just to add to this. Benjamin Franklin is sometimes paraphrased: "Any one who will trade freedom for security deserves neither."

    In my opinion, by denying this guy a proper trial, your government only worsens the problem. If the guy is a real terrorist, then his motives have to be exposed, and yes, lesson has to be taught to all terrorists, but it has to be done openly and fairly. So that other people who were otherwise to commit terrorism against your country, would understand that they will be CAUGHT, TRIED fairly and PUNISHED accordingly.
    Otherwise, the way this situation is currently being handled by authorities literally shows that they are willing to violate anyone's constitutional rights just to close the issue. I personally don't want to see a black person being arrested on the street just because statistically people of certain skin color or race or religion commit more crimes. It looks like your government is going in that direction fairly quickly.
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  3. #153

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    Jeph, correctly me if I am wrong, I know it's off-topic, but didn't you, people, select that congress?
    "Actually, 90% of Americans approve of background checks in the sale of weapons. It's Congress (and lobbies) that kill that every time. "

    Also, ok, I agree, I pushed too far saying that fair trial is denied, but again, Miranda rights are quite simple. The exception used was that he was an immediate danger to public. The guy who found this suspected terrorist said that he was laying in a pool of blood. How is he an immediate danger in his condition?

  4. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperZ View Post
    Jeph, correctly me if I am wrong, I know it's off-topic, but didn't you, people, select that congress?
    You hope your elected officials represent your wishes in government. But, sadly, it doesn't work out that way nearly as much as it should. Money talks. Also, people don't vote on one issue. If a congressman sides with your beliefs on 95% of the issues that are important to you, but you disagree with his views on gun laws, do you vote for the other guy? No, probably not. Unless gun control is your #1 issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by ViperZ View Post
    The exception used was that he was an immediate danger to public. The guy who found this suspected terrorist said that he was laying in a pool of blood. How is he an immediate danger in his condition?
    -He could have other live bombs planted around the city
    -He could be just one small part of a larger cell or plan that still intends to do harm

    Etc.
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  5. #155

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    Or... OR... he knows what happens in the season finale of Game of Thrones and he's threatened to Tweet it...
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  6. #156

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    Ah, whatever, too much politics for me. Personally, obviously, I want whoever killed those people caught, tried and punished accordingly. But I do want it done openly and fairly. Why? Because I want to know that the guy actually did what he is being incriminated, and if he had any accomplices, those to be caught too.

    (and most of us do know what will happen at least in the ending of 3rd season, because Martin already wrote, what, 5 books? :))

  7. #157

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    No way, man. Most of us don't read.
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  8. #158

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    Evidence ? For which crime ? The bombings themselves, the killing of the security guard, the robbing of the convenience store, the car jacking, throwing bombs at the police and shooting at them ? Truth is, we don't know what evidence has been gathered so far but miranda rights should be given regardless. I know there is some legal leway for not doing it, but it still may not hold muster in a court of law. In other words, why risk it ? Why risk any or all charges being dropped because of a miranda rights issue ? Just because we have a law on the books doesn't mean it will hold up constitutionaly once challenged.

    I know each and every one of us would like to see justice done, but we have to wait for this to play out before making assumptions. I'm sure they will leave lots of room to be critical of the process.

  9. #159

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    The kid is a US citizen.

    There are matters of national security at stake.

    i.e., it's a tricky situation but I reckon that Justice will likely be meted out as intended by "the framers of the Constitution"; assuming that the suspect survives.
    all the best,
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  10. #160

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    Viper I don't know where you are getting your info, but he JUST got captured by LEO's. Now that he has been he WILL be tried in some USA Federal court for his crimes. It was said last night that now that they have him, the legal side now gets to go to work to put his butt away for the rest of his life or if we are really lucky given the death penalty.

    So long as he never gets to kill anyone else, I don't care how it happens.
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  11. #161

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    Quote Originally Posted by cfrizz View Post
    So long as he never gets to kill anyone else, I don't care how it happens.
    See how quickly you jump to conclusions? IF he has actually committed the crime, then I agree with you. But first they have to prove it. Have a fair trial, prove that he is guilty, punish him accordingly. Simple. That's my whole point.

    The justice system actually works both ways too. Like tonyb mentioned, for those of you who are trigger happy lynchers, if his constitutional rights were not respected when he was arrested, it may play a horrible joke if he is actually guilty.

  12. #162

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    Why is everybody so up in arms about the suspect not being read his Miranda rights immediatly upon arrest. I'm not a lawyer, but there is 2 parts to being read your rights. The first being that they are explained to you, and if possible video taped. I'm sure there will be a video of some law enforcement type reading them off a card in front of at least one other law enforcement type at some point.

    The second part of being read your rights is that you understand them. In other words are you mentally capable as well as physically capable of understanding them. The first thing that law enforcement should have done, after arresting him and securing him, is get a medical person to check him out.

    This is very high profile, and the last thing any prosecuter would want to hear is the accused was so weak from whatever trauma he sustained that he couldn't have possibly understood his rights. So, in my opinion, if they left him guarded, in some medical treatment room, even makeshift, and read him his rights the next day there is no violation of any law. There is no technical violation nor is the spirit of the law violated.

    SHould he mutter a name or 2 before he is Mirandized, and that information is noted by somebody, it can be used for inteligence gathering purposes, but not prosecutorial evidence. The point being is he was just arrested after running for quite a while, and more than likely injured. He may not have understood those rights, or at least could claime he didn't.

  13. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnh View Post
    I'm "pretty" sure I know what this means and "where" it is coming from but "I" am not going there because it would be as inappropriate? Transparency is not just a term used for reproducing music here! lol

    Just good that this is all in hand. And, of course, THEY'RE not going to tell US everything--how DUMB would that be? Think about it!

    cnh
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  14. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperZ View Post
    Wow. Seriously. You're "pretty sure" that "government feels". And he is already denied his Miranda rights. How do you know that he is guilty? Because police said that he is guilty? So you'll be happy that he is declared guilty, you have no idea what happened, closed deal? What if YOUR constitution rights were violated, you were taken off the street, thrown into jail with no rights, declared terrorist and never fairly tried?
    Somehow when your constitutional rights are violated when your government wants to perform background checks before people buy guns, you all go crazy, but when a person gets arrested, gets denied his Miranda rights with no clear evidence, that's ok. Why not just publicly lynch him? F*k his rights, screw the constitution, which you all are so eager to defend when it affects only YOU personally, right?
    Wow! Seriously indeed! Is there some reason that you think this dirt bag, POS isn't gulity?

    IMO, they should have shot him dead on sight and saved the US taxpayers a ton of money.
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  15. #165

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    He and his brother ADMITTED to being the the bombers to the man who they carjacked, then let him GO, he WILL be called to testify. they fired & tossed explosives at the LEOs who gave chase to that CARJACKED car. His brother was left at the scene of where that car came to a stop in Watertown where another gun battle ensued and he ran OVER his brother to get away.

    There was yet ANOTHER gun battle at the boat where he was taken prisoner. They will have confiscated everthing he left in the carjacked car as well as the carjacked car and whatever was with/on him when they captured him. They will also have done the same at the apt where he and his brother lived.

    I have no doubt that they have more than enough evidence to convict him and so does everyone who watched this unfold across the WORLD all DAY yesterday!

    This is one of the benefits of having a free press. Even when the reporters had to go further back from the scene for their safety, they were able to lock down a camera to continue recording whatever was going on.

    And let me also say that for once ALL branches of law enforcement worked as they should have and cooperated together to bring this to a fairly quick conclusion. For that the occupants of MA are truly grateful. THANK YOU to all of you from all over the East Coast who came to help us out!
    Last edited by cfrizz; 04-20-2013 at 08:52 PM.
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  16. #166

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    Wow! Seriously indeed! Is there some reason that you think this dirt bag, POS isn't gulity?

    IMO, they should have shot him dead on sight and saved the US taxpayers a ton of money.
    It is not often that I agree with Jesse, but in this I am in COMPLETE agreement. Just from the evidence that was on tv yesterday is a slam dunk conviction and the miserable coward needs to join his rabid dog of a brother in HELL!

    You just might feel differently if it had happened in your state.
    Last edited by cfrizz; 04-20-2013 at 08:47 PM.
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  17. #167

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    I'm glad they got him alive. There may be more dirtbags we can find because of it. Which, IMO, is more important than taxpayer dollars.
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  18. #168

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    I'm also glad he is alive since I want to find out how much religion played in this case. So far, the media is tip toeing around the subject. It doesn't make much sense for Chechen political issues to be active in this country.

  19. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by jephdood View Post
    I'm glad they got him alive. There may be more dirtbags we can find because of it. Which, IMO, is more important than taxpayer dollars.
    I agree. That does not mean, of course, that either one of us is suggesting that the brother should be nominated for sainthood.
    By all appearances, this guy (and his brother) are guilty as sin, IMO. They probably couldn't be more guilty if they had tried.

    Regarding Miranda rights, the correctly noted "safety" exception and "self utterance" exceptions have been posted.
    But I would again suggest that the Miranda issue is not applicable. The POTUS (or an appropriate agency administrator) has declared the brother was either a terrorist or was engaged in acts that were in support of terrorism. NDAA.
    Therefore, this person has no rights. Period. NDAA.
    This person is an American citizen. Doesn't matter. NDAA.

    Not being political. This is what is.

    I'm curious as to why the government hasn't applied the provisions of the NDAA in this case when they can (should ?).
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  20. #170

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    The suspect must also be CONCIOUS and able to respond to the reading of those rights... This guy is in a coma for all we know, so reading or not reading those rights is mute at this point...


    If he is to be tried in a civilian court, he will get his rights read to him as soon as he invokes is right to counsel. If he is declared an enemy combatant, then a different set of rights will be applied. If I were Immigration, he would be stripped of his citizenship before he opens his eyes.

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    This guy WILL be read his Miranda rights, WHEN he is coherent. If they read him his rights under the influence of morphine, then guess what? His attorney will win on appeal, because it's a little hard to understand your rights, when your TRIPPING your balls off.
    I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!

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    I don't know if it's true or not, but I heard they had this guy at Beth Israel hospital.......Is that Kosher?
    I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!

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    Sadly, I think we're going to have more and more of this type of stuff.

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    I heard they ordered the pressure cookers from Canada.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkg999 View Post
    I heard they ordered the pressure cookers from Canada.
    And soon you will need a permit and a backround check to buy one...
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    A friend, and some of you know him, brought up some interesting observations, points and questions on fb regarding this incident.

    I quote:

    "Cheering in Boston? A city in lock down, barricaded streets, martial law? Warrant-less searches of private homes while a million citizens sat in fear, and 300 million watched? Do people not see this and comprehend what has happened?"
    Last edited by Keiko; 04-21-2013 at 02:45 AM.

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    Hold on a second Mike, before we go down that road lets recap. We don't know about any warrantless searches. Suspected bombers thought to be ARMED and dangerous are on the loose in your town. Police go door to door searching/asking possibly to have permission to search properties. Who was going to say "no" ? Especially if your houshold is unarmed. I highly doubt they just broke down doors in search of these 2. That would be another story altogether.

    Fear is a very powerfull motivator. It motivates people to protect themselves by any means possible....or not too. Fear drives policy, legislation, or lack there of. All I know is, living in fear is not living so in order to not live in fear one must do what they can to ensure the safety of their own family from whatever makes you afraid. That means different things to different people as many hold a variety of fears. Could be you want a security camera around your house, get a big dog, maybe arm yourself, bodyguards, even the way we vote is fear related. Fear is also manipulated to advance agendas, has been for centuries.

    Thing is, when masses of people are in fear, who ya gonna call ? Ghost Busters ? You call the people with the guns to protect you, federal agencies, local police. I doubt any nutjob jihadist is going to go into a NRA convention to kill people for obvious reasons. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the answer is to arm everyone, but limiting that small aspect sure isn't the answer either.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is lets not jump to the extreme positions on either side, especially since there is soo much we don't know yet....and thats the missing key ingredient, information.

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    A few questions:

    Has anyone talked to the owner of the highjacked SUV?

    Where did this SUV go after blasting through the police blockade? Location?

    How could a wounded man evade all those police after stopping the SUV?

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    Oh for the love of God, get a grip Mike, this chase and gun battle were going on from 10:00 on Thursday night. Last time I checked gun shots were loud when you hear a lot of them in your neighborhood and turn on the tv to see what is going on, you are going to lock everything up and pray he doesn't end up in your backyard. If uniformed cops come and knocks on your door asking for permission are you going to be macho man and say no because you have a gun to supposedly protect yourself.

    Are you going to put a gun in Janey's hands so she can search your house with you? This was an extreme situation with someone who had no hesitation to kill a cop in his car and he had a gun to protect himself!

    At some point you have to put aside your massive paranoia about the evil government trodding on your rights and use your common sense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    Wow! Seriously indeed! Is there some reason that you think this dirt bag, POS isn't gulity?

    IMO, they should have shot him dead on sight and saved the US taxpayers a ton of money.
    I disagree to a point. It's great they have one of them alive so they can interrogate him. Now after you extract as much info as possible make him a few promises, like you will be forgiven and receive a light sentence. Then wait a day or two so he starts to feel a little better and then tell him we lied you heap of sh.. and pour a small amount of gas on him and light up.

    I know I am no better than a terrorist if I did and don't really think we should do it but feels good to vent.

    Can you imagine his life in a jail cell? That has to be torture in itself. And how will his fellow inmates treat him if they can get close?

    Hopefully he won't be anal retentive very long.

    When I have heard some people who knew these two things say they were cool and nice it does not surprise me. They tried to fit in and all so that's what they had to do. I just wish the media let it out they they both had bad breath, syphilis, clap, ED problems and so on..... F'em they have/had zero redeeming qualities.

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