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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by snake1 View Post
    Just curious since it pertains to the conversation, how does that Pioneer receiver put out 140wpc all channels driven and only weighs 40lbs?? What kind of tech allows for this?
    Class D amps as Enders mentioned. I think in testing, the SC 57 receiver put out ~110+ wpc 7 channels driven, which seems pretty decent.

    http://www.hometheater.com/content/p...-labs-measures
    Last edited by PrazVT; 04-23-2013 at 08:55 PM.
    ALL BOXED UP for a while until I save up for a new place :(

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  2. #32

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    ICE amps sound very interesting! Hmmm. Have to do some googling!
    AVR - Onkyo NR809
    500gb HD for MP3 and FLAC files
    Amp - Parasound 2250 - FOR SALE BTW!! PM me if interested!
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  3. #33

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    Another vote for Wyred 4 Sound. This is what I use in my HT: http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/p.../117839/339145
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
    Here is my question: Why do you need an amp for those speakers?

    Honestly just pick up a Pioneer SC-68 and call it a day. You dont need nearly the wattage you think you do for the LSiM's to drive them to ear bleeding levels. Also factor in you need to double the wattage per 3db you add. So for example if your AVR puts out say 125 x 7 (actual wattage rather than spec wattage) and gives you 100 db, to get to 103 db you need to have 250 x 7 (actual wattage), to get to 106db you need to have 500 x 7 (actual wattage, and more than your speakers can take per spec's). Its hard to tell the difference between db's the higher up you go as well, so you might not even be able to tell the difference sound wise, even though you may pay 2 or 3x more for an amp with those specs.

    If you just had to have an amp get a 2 channel one for your front 2, and drive the rest with a really good AVR (again with the Pioneer SC series).

    One of the nice things about the redesign of the LSi series into the LSiM series is the move from 4 ohm speakers to 8 ohm ones. Allows you to use an AVR to power them (assuming its a good quality one).

    I wouldnt go out and buy a cheapy AVR by any means, but anything in the 1.5k range up should work fine, and then you save yourself the cost of the AVR + an amp + interconnects. Allows for a simpler hookup and cleaner source to speaker connection.

    +1.. I agree. I would do the exact thing. Infact that is what I have done. From the beginning of my adventure in hi end HT, I went by Marantz for saving some money and did not get pio elite. Recently I upgraded to elite and I owe a big thank you to all here on the forum who strongly recommend it. I have SC-65 driving three speakers and Parasound Halo driving RIi A9. Man, the system sound great. Just my 2 cents...

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
    One of the nice things about the redesign of the LSi series into the LSiM series is the move from 4 ohm speakers to 8 ohm ones. Allows you to use an AVR to power them (assuming its a good quality one).
    I haven't seen any impedance measurements of the 703, but the 707 dips below 3ohms and the 706 dips below 4ohms. http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/art...ystem?page=0,2

    I would go with a high quality 3 channel amp for up front, then a good receiver to power the rears.

    There's nothing wrong with having extra power, headroom is better than clipping.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Face View Post
    I haven't seen any impedance measurements of the 703, but the 707 dips below 3ohms and the 706 dips below 4ohms. http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/art...ystem?page=0,2

    I would go with a high quality 3 channel amp for up front, then a good receiver to power the rears.

    There's nothing wrong with having extra power, headroom is better than clipping.
    Amen to that! And you would also be surprised at how easy it is to put an amp into clipping conditions. That's one of the reasons guys say they like the sound of tube amps...they spend a lot of their time under clipping conditions but pull it off better than SS amps. Having an amp with plenty of power & headroom is key. There is no such thing as having too much power!
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "
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  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Face View Post
    I haven't seen any impedance measurements of the 703, but the 707 dips below 3ohms and the 706 dips below 4ohms. http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/art...ystem?page=0,2

    I would go with a high quality 3 channel amp for up front, then a good receiver to power the rears.

    There's nothing wrong with having extra power, headroom is better than clipping.
    Wow, thats interesting to note. I thought they all dipped to at max maybe 6 ohms.

    Quote Originally Posted by pearsall001 View Post
    Amen to that! And you would also be surprised at how easy it is to put an amp into clipping conditions. That's one of the reasons guys say they like the sound of tube amps...they spend a lot of their time under clipping conditions but pull it off better than SS amps. Having an amp with plenty of power & headroom is key. There is no such thing as having too much power!
    I dont disagree with you guys here, however the second the OP said "I need a 7 channel amp" everyone was throwing out suggestions for massive amps that honestly he may not need. A 3 channel amp would make sense for the front three, or just a 2 channel as well. But 7 channels of 200 watts? Yeah, surrounds dont need that kinda headroom IMHO.
    Advice is free, the Flea Market is earned - F1Nut

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  8. #38

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    Sunfire TGA-7401, $3000. Unfortunately it is not 200 watts/channel - it's 400.
    http://www.independentaudiovideo.com...itemid=1010220

    Sunfire TGR-401, $3200 http://www.independentaudiovideo.com...itemid=1010218
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  9. #39

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    I agree with EndersShadow, i'd get an SC-68 with a 2 or 3 channel amp and let it run the surrounds. 7x200 is definitely overkill unless you're running 7 full range speakers blasting concert volume levels, not that the extra power would hurt anything.
    Theater Room: Pioneer Elite SC-35, RTi12's, Csi5, Fxi5's, Fxi3's, ED A5-350 sub, Optoma HD20, 92'' Elite Screen, Sony BDPS790, Xbox One, APC H15, MIT Exp 2 SC's, Pepster PC's

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  10. #40

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    So if I were to get a 3-channel amp then for the fronts and center, then maybe something like this?

    http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/.../products/xpa3

  11. #41

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    Theater Room: Pioneer Elite SC-35, RTi12's, Csi5, Fxi5's, Fxi3's, ED A5-350 sub, Optoma HD20, 92'' Elite Screen, Sony BDPS790, Xbox One, APC H15, MIT Exp 2 SC's, Pepster PC's

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  12. #42

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    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by sarvic View Post
    So if I were to get a 3-channel amp then for the fronts and center, then maybe something like this?

    http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/.../products/xpa3
    You will find that brand in particular tends to either have folks love or hate it on this forum.

    Personally I am a bigger fan of used amps as you can normally find a deal on a good used amp for less than the Emo run's new. If still wanting to go new, I would suggest the Outlaws and Wyred4Sound amps over the Emotiva as well.

    Its not that Emotiva is horrible, its that most of us see a better price to performance ratio in used gear as its already depreciated in value since its used. That and unlike AVR's which change all the time tech wise, amp's pretty much haven't changed tons in how they work so you can get a 3 year old amp that performs very well for 50% of what it might have cost new.

    Heck I have a 15+ year old amp that works great for my 5 channels of LSi's and cost me 250 total.
    Advice is free, the Flea Market is earned - F1Nut

    Main HT: APC H15 | Pio 51FD | Uverse DVR | Xbox 360 | Squeezebox Classic | Integra DTR 5.9 | Carver AV-705x & M1.0t MKII Opt002 | LSi 15 | LSiC | LSi F/x | Kimber Hero IC & 8VS SC

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  14. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
    Wow, thats interesting to note. I thought they all dipped to at max maybe 6 ohms.



    I dont disagree with you guys here, however the second the OP said "I need a 7 channel amp" everyone was throwing out suggestions for massive amps that honestly he may not need. A 3 channel amp would make sense for the front three, or just a 2 channel as well. But 7 channels of 200 watts? Yeah, surrounds dont need that kinda headroom IMHO.
    I think that statement is not quit accurate. I think that is all dependant on what you are using for surrounds. My monitor audio GXFX has an 87 db sensitivty rating and drop into the 3ohm territory impedence wise. Not an easy surround to drive. With soundtracks becoming more and more dynamic and having alot of transit peaks, I dont see why amping the surrounds would hurt one bit. My surrounds are less efficient than the towers and they both dip into the 3 ohm territory.

  15. #45

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    Where were all you people at yesterday for my thread?

    I guess I should of asked if i'd hear better sound going separate amps over my Denon AVR-3313CI for LSiM 5 channel sound.
    Full 5 channel set of Polk Audio
    Fronts - LSiM 705
    Center - LSiM 706c
    Sides - LSiM 703
    Mits WD-82842 82" DLP 3DTV
    Denon AVR-3313CI Receiver
    Emotiva stealth DC-1
    Emotiva XPA-2/Fronts XPA-3 Center-surrounds
    Oppo 103

    Loving the new Family! :)

  16. #46

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    I reckon i'll be on the lookout for something used then. Too bad Outlaw doesn't make a 3-channel amp. Oh well.

  17. #47

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  18. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by rdb2001 View Post
    I think that statement is not quit accurate. I think that is all dependant on what you are using for surrounds. My monitor audio GXFX has an 87 db sensitivty rating and drop into the 3ohm territory impedence wise. Not an easy surround to drive. With soundtracks becoming more and more dynamic and having alot of transit peaks, I dont see why amping the surrounds would hurt one bit. My surrounds are less efficient than the towers and they both dip into the 3 ohm territory.
    +1. Everyone wants to save money so they convince themselves that the surrounds don't need it. But I can tell you that they improve with having the extra power as well as the fronts. It doesn't hurt them, will definately help them, and there is NO such thing as overkill. Do it once and do it right, amp all your speakers then sit back and enjoy because if you don't, once you amp the fronts you are going to start wondering just how good the surrounds can sound with more power then have to buy another 2 channel amp to find out, if you have a plug to spare. One amp for all your speakers and one plug to power it. That works for me.
    Sunfire TGP III PrePro, Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature 405wpc 5 ch. Amp, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Onkyo TA2600 Tape Deck, Pioneer Elite 47-A DVD, Sony 32" XBR TV, Polk RTA-8T Main Speakers, Boston VR-920 Center Channel, Boston PV-600 Subwoofer, Polk DSW 400 Subwoofer, Polk FXi-3 Surround Speakers

  19. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by cfrizz View Post
    +1. Everyone wants to save money so they convince themselves that the surrounds don't need it. But I can tell you that they improve with having the extra power as well as the fronts. It doesn't hurt them, will definately help them, and there is NO such thing as overkill. Do it once and do it right, amp all your speakers then sit back and enjoy because if you don't, once you amp the fronts you are going to start wondering just how good the surrounds can sound with more power then have to buy another 2 channel amp to find out, if you have a plug to spare. One amp for all your speakers and one plug to power it. That works for me.
    +1 & then some...do not skimp on power. You'd be surprised how much better everything sounds when properly fed. Don't underestimate what the surrounds need. Hell, I'm not even done yet, I'm looking at a 4 channel amp for my front & rear presence speakers.
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "
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  20. #50

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    hmmm, that Outlaw 7700 is sounding better and better now...lol

  21. #51

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    I would get a Emotiva amp. i think alot of the other amps you are just paying for the name on them. Not say the better performance.

  22. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy72206 View Post
    I would get a Emotiva amp. i think alot of the other amps you are just paying for the name on them. Not say the better performance.
    You "think", or you've tried other brands and A/B'd against the Emotiva?

    A lot of Emotiva fans "think" the way you think, though they've never tried the other brands that are so "over-priced"...
    2-Channel:

    Source 1: PC
    Source 2: Rega Apollo CDP
    USB > SPDIF Converter: Stello U3
    DAC: Audio GD NFB-7
    Preamp: Audio Research LS-15
    Power Amp: BAT VK-500
    Speakers: Magnepan 3.7's

    HT:

    Source 1: HTPC
    Source 2: Oppo 103
    Pre/Pro: Marantz av8003
    Power Amp: Rotel RMB-1095
    Fronts: LSiM-705's
    Center: LSiM-704c
    Surrounds: LSiM-702's
    Subs: Dual SVS PC12-NSD's

  23. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy72206 View Post
    I would get a Emotiva amp. i think alot of the other amps you are just paying for the name on them. Not say the better performance.
    Unlike yours, my recommendations are based on experience. Besides the use of better parts, the rest of the added expense are due to them being designed and made in the US.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

  24. #54

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    Face the negative would be no transferable warranty. That would kill the resale on it if one didn't like the match with there gear.
    Full 5 channel set of Polk Audio
    Fronts - LSiM 705
    Center - LSiM 706c
    Sides - LSiM 703
    Mits WD-82842 82" DLP 3DTV
    Denon AVR-3313CI Receiver
    Emotiva stealth DC-1
    Emotiva XPA-2/Fronts XPA-3 Center-surrounds
    Oppo 103

    Loving the new Family! :)

  25. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by eclypse View Post
    Face the negative would be no transferable warranty. That would kill the resale on it if one didn't like the match with there gear.
    If you follow their gear on Agon, they generally have a very high resale value.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

  26. #56

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    I doubt that close to retail. No doubt still stand to loose a couple hundred.

    Just looked and they have a trial plan where you can try it out for 14 days. If you choose to return it you loose shipping (of course) + 5%. Not bad. Though Emotiva has a 30 day Full Return no questions asked. You just loose shipping costs.
    Full 5 channel set of Polk Audio
    Fronts - LSiM 705
    Center - LSiM 706c
    Sides - LSiM 703
    Mits WD-82842 82" DLP 3DTV
    Denon AVR-3313CI Receiver
    Emotiva stealth DC-1
    Emotiva XPA-2/Fronts XPA-3 Center-surrounds
    Oppo 103

    Loving the new Family! :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by eclypse View Post
    ...No doubt still stand to loose a couple hundred.

    Just looked and they have a trial plan where you can try it out for 14 days. If you choose to return it you loose shipping (of course) + 5%. Not bad. Though Emotiva has a 30 day Full Return no questions asked. You just loose shipping costs.
    That's why you buy used... try something out for a while, then sell it and MAKE money.

    Hey look, a brand new Honda Accord will have a better warranty than a ten year old used Corvette... but if performance is the name of the game, then that warranty doesn't mean a whole lot.

    Are you buying an amp so that you can brag about the cheap cost and great warranty, or are you buying an amp to get the most out of your speakers?
    2-Channel:

    Source 1: PC
    Source 2: Rega Apollo CDP
    USB > SPDIF Converter: Stello U3
    DAC: Audio GD NFB-7
    Preamp: Audio Research LS-15
    Power Amp: BAT VK-500
    Speakers: Magnepan 3.7's

    HT:

    Source 1: HTPC
    Source 2: Oppo 103
    Pre/Pro: Marantz av8003
    Power Amp: Rotel RMB-1095
    Fronts: LSiM-705's
    Center: LSiM-704c
    Surrounds: LSiM-702's
    Subs: Dual SVS PC12-NSD's

  28. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by falconcry72 View Post
    Are you buying an amp so that you can brag about the cheap cost and great warranty, or are you buying an amp to get the most out of your speakers?
    Sig material right there.

    When I was shopping for my new car, the choice was between a new Hyundai or Kia or a 3 year old Acura. I took the 3 year old Acura.
    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
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  29. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZLTFUL View Post
    Sig material right there.

    When I was shopping for my new car, the choice was between a new Hyundai or Kia or a 3 year old Acura. I took the 3 year old Acura.
    I am curious how Hyundai or Kia were even on your radar if you were looking at Acura. Would think you would be looking at lexus, infiniti, audi, bmw etc. Those cars are not even in the same class as the Acura.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rdb2001 View Post
    ...Those cars are not even in the same class as the Acura.
    The same could be said about some of the amps in question here. The similarity of the used price of one vs. the new price of the other is what puts them in the same "class" of consideration.

    I got my 5 channel Rotel RMB-1095 for 750 bucks. Same "price class" as a new XPA-5. The Emotiva has a warranty; the Rotel does not. The Rotel sounds better. Easy decision for me.
    Last edited by falconcry72; 04-25-2013 at 02:58 PM.
    2-Channel:

    Source 1: PC
    Source 2: Rega Apollo CDP
    USB > SPDIF Converter: Stello U3
    DAC: Audio GD NFB-7
    Preamp: Audio Research LS-15
    Power Amp: BAT VK-500
    Speakers: Magnepan 3.7's

    HT:

    Source 1: HTPC
    Source 2: Oppo 103
    Pre/Pro: Marantz av8003
    Power Amp: Rotel RMB-1095
    Fronts: LSiM-705's
    Center: LSiM-704c
    Surrounds: LSiM-702's
    Subs: Dual SVS PC12-NSD's

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