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  1. #31

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    I think he is taking the 1K price by factoring all upgrades -

    Gimpod boards, inductors, caps, resistors, terminal plates, new SDA cable, new binding post, tweeters, NL2/4 conversion, the full monty
    Last edited by VR3; 05-09-2013 at 02:29 PM.
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  2. #32

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    My buddy's shop has a pair of the TAD Reference 1s in stock and they are asking $79k.
    I have listened to em several times but would most likely never have the cash for them.
    The JBL Everest IIs are a close second for me but a different sound...The JBLs would be my hard rock speakers with the TADs doing everything else in a channel system.
    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
    I may have an addiction... RTA-15TL, SDA 2, LSi25, LSi15, LSi9, LSi7, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LS/FX, RT/FX, DSW MP2000...and that's just the Polks...

  3. #33

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    Well with the 1C's your dealing with 4 tweeters so thats 200 bucks, for VR3 to mod both cross overs (depending on what he's doing to them) your pretty close to 500, then Larrys rings and such, so 1K may be a little over the top, but i's pretty close. Not that the 1C's do not fill the room..they do. Even in there 26 year old state...LOL



    I think it comes down to the point of..I've had these for 26 years. I think it's time to move on to the big boys. The 1.2's are just massive speakers, they have 8 drivers, 4 tweeters and a 15" pr Sitting in a massive cab that weighs about 180 lb's. IF you have the room size for them and the power to push them. They pretty sit there screaming at you to turn them up and let me melt your face off...LMAO



    OK..thats a little over the top there..LOL But you get the idea. There are just very few speakers that can compete with that.
    Last edited by naturallight; 05-09-2013 at 03:15 PM.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZLTFUL View Post
    My buddy's shop has a pair of the TAD Reference 1s in stock and they are asking $79k.
    I have listened to em several times but would most likely never have the cash for them.
    The JBL Everest IIs are a close second for me but a different sound...The JBLs would be my hard rock speakers with the TADs doing everything else in a channel system.
    Dang...
    Even if I had cash, I don't think I can ever convince myself spending that much on speakers unless I become crazyphile.

    Boston A400, DefTech BP10,BP-2, Klipsch KG2.5,KG4,KSP-400,KSF-C5,RF3,RC3.
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  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZLTFUL View Post
    My buddy's shop has a pair of the TAD Reference 1s in stock and they are asking $79k.
    I have listened to em several times but would most likely never have the cash for them.
    The JBL Everest IIs are a close second for me but a different sound...The JBLs would be my hard rock speakers with the TADs doing everything else in a channel system.
    The Everest would be on the list when I hit the lotto.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-Everest-...item1c3208c72d
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  6. #36

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    If you are looking for something other than SDAs, I thought the Gallo 3.1 Reference speakers were pretty amazing. Had a friend who had them and they definitely had an amazing sound stage. I don't know what the opinion of them around here is though, but if you want something different I think you should give them a listen.

  7. #37

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    The TAD Reference 1s are huge... I would hope they sound amazing given the price.

  8. #38

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    A full MBL system. They are made in Germany and probably the very best sounding speaker system I have ever heard.
    http://www.mbl-emirates.com/en/
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by mantis View Post
    A full MBL system. They are made in Germany and probably the very best sounding speaker system I have ever heard.
    http://www.mbl-emirates.com/en/
    According to this thread, they are now made in China, with a final assembly in Germany in order to say "Made in Germany".

    http://www.audioaficionado.org/mbl-d...-china-13.html

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by mantis View Post
    A full MBL system. They are made in Germany and probably the very best sounding speaker system I have ever heard.
    I've heard them more times than I care to remember, in all kinds of different rooms. Unless you're into no soundstage, no center or pin point imaging like one gets from a whole house system they are horrible, just horrible speakers.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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  11. #41

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    naturallight, if the problem is only with the one speaker the poly is either shot or the wrong spec Either is an easy fix, same as the bad driver.

    Honestly, in the last 26 years you have yet to hear what those speakers are close to sounding like. At a minimum, upgrade the crossovers, get the RD0194-1's, Dynamat the drivers/PR's and spike them. I gaurantee you will kick yourself really effing hard for not doing it before.

    You still haven't answered one question, what are you driving them with?
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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  12. #42

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    Naturallight,

    If your into big speakers with big bass, Legacy Focus 20/20's or the newer HD's will sure fit the bill. I 've had the 20/20's now for about 7 years now with no complaints or feel any desire to go elsewhere. If your close to northern Illinois your more than welcome to drop by for a listen.

  13. #43

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    I've owned the 1.2s since 1988. They are my best and last speaker until I have to downsize at the nurning home.

  14. #44

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    Thanks Tony, but i live in GA...that would be a long hike..LOL The Legacy Focus is one of the few speakers that come to mind, to compete with the 1.2's But to find a set used in the 3K range may not be doable.



    F1 the amp is the Onkyo M-504, the amp is fine, i know the cross-overs need to be rebuilt, no question about that. It's not like they shut down alot, it's once in a blue moon and only on certain cd's if pushed to hard. I've changed the pico on that cross-over, didn't do alot. The other speaker used to shut down the tweeters alot. I just changed the whole cross-over new from Polk. They never shut down now. So 1 speaker has a cross-over that is maybe 10 years old the other is well over 26..so yes for sure..both have to come out and redone. Trying to get any of this done right now is impossible. Anytime i think i may have a few hundred for new tweeters...it goes right out the door on house stuff.

    Right now i'd rather wrestle an alligator, then tell her i'm spending (or in her words wasting) money on speakers, as i have a basement full of expensive "toys" Keyboards, guitar amps, guitars, full on PA, 32 track recorder..plus 3 sets of stereo speakers. Thats why i stuck a 2 year time line on this. The house HAS to be finished by then. My thinking of being able to save up 3k....that may be over the top. But i'd really like a set of 1.2's. If that is undo able, yes i will completely redo the 1 C's.

    Later on in the year, i may be able to sneak a few hundred for tweeters for the 1C's, but that would be about it for now.

  15. #45

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    Your amp is only rated for 8ohm operation, IIRC.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

  16. #46

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    There is some method to my madness on this. I do have some equipment that i could sell off. I hate to sell stuff, as in the back of my mind is always..gee i may use that again sometime...LOL

    But i'm getting to old to really use some of this stuff, and will not have the opportunity to do so.



    The 32 track recorder..i'm just NOT going to use. I have an extra guitar amp sitting there collecting dust. Just between those 2 thats an easy 1K if not more. The RTi 12' would be the speakers i would sell also.

    If i sold any of that stuff right now...the house would just suck that money up in a heartbeat.



    So if i just wait, until the house is done, or the BIG expenses are done. Then i have a chance at getting a set of 1.2 TL's..IF i can find them, in good shape, for the right price...LOL



    I don't want to throw alot of money at the 1C's right now (not that i have it anyway) but the new RDO tweeters, would really be nice. Just to get rid of the SL2000's..LOL It's just a stop gap..but needed.



    IF..i could find a set of 1.2's..I would NOT do anything more to the 1C's. They would probably be moved upstairs, let the wife use them for her music. They would never be stressed, or played that loud, and she would be happy as a clam with those.



    If i could get the 1.2's then i'd be looking for a newer more powerful amp, and in any case a new pre. tubes would be nice but a hybrid is not out of the question. The Vincent tube hybrid pre seems to be a good buy..something i'm thinking about.



    This all depends on how much money i can really come up with..IF i can find the right set of 1.2's...if there just out of the question, then the 1C's get the full Monty and just call it a day.

  17. #47

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    Face, i'm not sure were you got that from. It's the Onkyo Integra M-504. There is little or no info on these amps anymore. I lost the manual..a long time ago. But these were top of the line stuff and just not rated at 8ohms. It has been pushing the 1c's for years to stupily loud volumes, and does not break a sweat. So it's not like it has any problem with the 1C's.

  18. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by naturallight View Post
    Face, i'm not sure were you got that from. It's the Onkyo Integra M-504. There is little or no info on these amps anymore. I lost the manual..a long time ago. But these were top of the line stuff and just not rated at 8ohms. It has been pushing the 1c's for years to stupily loud volumes, and does not break a sweat. So it's not like it has any problem with the 1C's.
    Usually, specifications mention 4ohm power rating on the receivers that suggests they can be used for those ohm loads.
    Service manual of M-504 only has 8ohm power ratings and does not have anything for 4ohm or 2ohm.
    Any 8ohm amp works at 4ohm load but will stress the amp and may overheat/fail if pushed to high levels.
    Here is a link but you have to register to download: http://www.hifiengine.com/library/onkyo/m-504.shtml

    Boston A400, DefTech BP10,BP-2, Klipsch KG2.5,KG4,KSP-400,KSF-C5,RF3,RC3.
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  19. #49

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    The problem with the Onkyo Intagra line. They only made these amps for a few years, why i don't know. They were highly acclaimed by the mags at the time. I've seen spec's on this amp that range from 165 watts to 175 watts.."supposedly" from Onkyo. Which i could never confirm. They have nothing but a pic of the amp on there website..thats about all the info you can get at this point.

    There were "i think" 2 types of amps made....which may not be true. The 504 and the 508. The 508 again i think was 200 watts. The 504..at least at the time i bought it was (supposedly form Onkyo)165 watts. The ratings were all at 8 ohms. Why they only listed it at that..not sure, but would be insanely stupid for them to build a high dollar amp that only worked at 8 ohms. These were NOT cheap power amps at the time, which back then could have been one of the reasons they dropped the line. They are real dual mono blocks, put into 1 cab. The amp is heavy..like 50 lb's or close to it. This amp gets hot when you turn it on..doesn't make a difference if your pushing speakers..it's just hot..period. It doesn't get hotter..it's like it gets up to temp and stays there..if your kicking the crap out of the speakers or not..just it's normal operating temp.



    If this amp had any problem at all trying to drive the 6 ohm 1C's....it would have smoked these speakers 15 years ago. Which is not the case at all.

  20. #50

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    There are more models of the M series, but you don't see them as often as you do the 504/508.
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Douglas IC's, AQ cv-8 SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

  21. #51

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    Yeah, i'm not sure what the deal was with Onkyo back then, none of them were cheap..and the power ratings were not that far apart. This was all back in the 1990's...LOL The only reason i managed to get this amp. I walked into J&R in NYC..saw the amp sitting there on a shelf. Not sure it was used as a demo as it was not hooked up to anything..just display type. One of the lights did not work on the VU meters.....



    So..it took me a good 15 min at least arguing with the sales guy...like first off it's a demo..second..it's BROKE...LOL It will take me alot of money to get the lights fixed..and so on...LOL



    So i walked out of there with a good deal...I don't remember how much i payed..but it was a good deal. The light thing took all of a few min to fix..the connection was loose..LOL



    The amp has never failed, nore had a problem pushing any type speaker at volume. So why they stuck 1 set of specs at it..not sure..but back then..not alot of amp companies posted what the power was at different ohm ratings..at least that i can remember. Again..I may be wrong... But 8 ohms was the stock thing..if your amp could not push X amount of power at 8 Ohms...then you were playing games and nobody wanted it.

  22. #52

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    You mentioned your amp is dual mono, have you ever confirmed that it is common ground?
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  23. #53

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    F1..this amp was billed as a dual mono block..altho in 1 cab..I do believe it's really a dual mono block from what i can see. BUT..if this was NOT a common ground amp..the 1C's would have been toasted

    15 years ago..so i tend to believe it is..

  24. #54

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    Yes, I understand it's dual mono in one chassis and you're likely right that after all these years of use it is probably common ground, but you should check it to be sure.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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  25. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by naturallight View Post
    F1..this amp was billed as a dual mono block..altho in 1 cab..I do believe it's really a dual mono block from what i can see. BUT..if this was NOT a common ground amp..the 1C's would have been toasted

    15 years ago..so i tend to believe it is..
    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    Yes, I understand it's dual mono in one chassis and you're likely right that after all these years of use it is probably common ground, but you should check it to be sure.
    F1nut is exactly correct. The Aragon 8008 is "dual mono"; but with 20 ohms resistance between the negative terminals. My 1Bs sounded terrible until I put a jumper wire between the negative terminals to fix the "semi-common-ground" issue.

    Your amps may--or may not--be true common-ground design. Easy to connect an ohmmeter to the negative terminals and find out.

  26. #56

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    My last and BEST speakers will be arriving when Ray puts his fully modded 1.2TL's up for sale next April 1st! And if I remember correctly, he is throwing in the all of AQ interconnects, x'ovr and speaker cables, Pass Lab pre-amp and mono-blocks, etc - pretty much a whole package. Can't wait!

  27. #57

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    I have an M504 and it is a common ground amp. I lost the manual a long time ago but I do remember that its common ground. And NatualLight....my 504 does not ever really get 'that' hot. It gets fairly warm but nothing to the point of what you are talking about. Maybe I am not pushing it as hard as you are though.
    --Gary--

  28. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by halo71 View Post
    I have an M504 and it is a common ground amp. I lost the manual a long time ago but I do remember that its common ground. And NatualLight....my 504 does not ever really get 'that' hot. It gets fairly warm but nothing to the point of what you are talking about. Maybe I am not pushing it as hard as you are though.
    Service manual (which includes specs and some information as well, of course, as schematics) is available at:
    http://www.hifiengine.com/library/onkyo/m-504.shtml
    all the best,
    mrh

  29. #59

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    A lot of positive feedback about Magnepan 3.7's. I would love to hear them on my system, even though I don't care for the aesthetics of the Magnepans.

    Has anyone listened to the Pioneer EX speakers? They're pretty expensive, but I haven't heard much about them and wonder about the target market for these.

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    Thanks halo for the info..i lost the manual a LONG time ago..LOL But i was pretty sure it was a common ground amp. Now when i say 'hot"..it's not like frying eggs or anything. It's a big amp, has lots of vents..just throws off heat..so if you stick your hand on the top...it's pretty warm, it's nothing like a tube amp, but the thing is not cold for sure. It doesn't care if it's running the 1C's or the RTi 12's. As i change them out depending on what i feel like.

    If you push this amp on newer recorded CD's..and you play this in the a little over the 11 o'clock position on the pre..unless your deaf..or want to be, that is probably far beyond what you really want to listen to this stuff at. The only stuff you have to turn up past that is the old analog stuff that was recorded low, and you have to push the volume to get close to what it used to be..but you talking 12 or a tad bit over that. In any case..the amp does not get really "hot".

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