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  1. #1

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    Default about mm and mc cartridges

    Ever since I picked up my Denon DP-11F tt I was wondering about what the difference is between the 2 options of input settings. MY Onkyo P-301 only has 1 phono input and that's it. I plugged in the RCAs from tt to pre and it's working fine.My cartridge is a Grado GF-3 which whileis no longer made it seems to have a very good reputation. If I were to replace the cart I think for $60 Grado Blakc1 would be my choice 1 because of funds and it is the screw w/ nut type not the P-mount.So higher end pres do have the option on which input to use ,so how do you know?
    1 thing that I do not like about the tt is that while you have to depress a power on switch to turn on then hit start when the record ends the power stays on until you again release power button to off position .My old Dual shut down when a record was over .

  2. #2

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    The cartridge you are interested in a a moving magnet type, so you would select the MM input. The DP11F is a fully automatic model. When a records ends, the arm is supposed to lift off and return to the armrest automatically. It sounds like the TT is not functioning as it should.
    Main system: Denon DP-59L | Audio-Technica AT33EV | Marantz Reference Series SA-11S2 | Classé CP-50, modified | Classé CA-300, modified | Classé DR-10, modified | Classé RC-1 | PSB Stratus Gold i's | DIY Balanced AC Power Conditioner with surge/spike suppression | Acoustic Zen and NeoTech cables | Oyaide and Furutech AC power connectors and receptacles | Hi-Fi Tuning Supreme fuses | Dedicated 20A IG AC line

  3. #3

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    Not necessarily... If the turntable is a semi-auto, then the unit is working correctly.

    Regarding MM and MC cartridges. MC are heavier by nature and also have a lot lower output than MM designs, often by a factor of 10. You normally will need a step-up transformer or a amplifier with a MC input in order to use them. MC designs are far more expensive than MM, but most agree MC designs sound better.

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    Glen,No it works perfectly. What I do not like is 1 feature of the tt is that when the record is over is does stop while returning and resting in the arm rest. I'm saying is that you have to push the power button to fully shut down power or else if I forget it will still be a powered unit doing nothing. Like I said my Dual tt when the records were over it came back to the arm rest and shut down entirely. Someone did say that this Denon DP-11f is an entry level tt and if so maybe that's just the way it is. All the settings and buttons are outside and up front beyond the dust cover which is an ok design feature.I just really wanted to know what the difference w/ the 2 styles of cartridges and just brought up that power button because it seems to be an annoyance to me ,I have left it on 1 night once already and really do not want to do it again.I guess there is a way to get around this by plugging the tt into the switched outlet in back of the P-301 but to a man here you guys have always said do not plug anything into your preamp's oulets. It's not all that tragic ,all I have to do is when my last record is played for that session lock the arm and push the power button to off.......

  5. #5

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    Sorry, double post.
    Last edited by Glen B; 06-02-2013 at 06:47 PM.
    Main system: Denon DP-59L | Audio-Technica AT33EV | Marantz Reference Series SA-11S2 | Classé CP-50, modified | Classé CA-300, modified | Classé DR-10, modified | Classé RC-1 | PSB Stratus Gold i's | DIY Balanced AC Power Conditioner with surge/spike suppression | Acoustic Zen and NeoTech cables | Oyaide and Furutech AC power connectors and receptacles | Hi-Fi Tuning Supreme fuses | Dedicated 20A IG AC line

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    Quote Originally Posted by leftwinger57 View Post
    Glen,No it works perfectly. What I do not like is 1 feature of the tt is that when the record is over is does stop while returning and resting in the arm rest. I'm saying is that you have to push the power button to fully shut down power or else if I forget it will still be a powered unit doing nothing. Like I said my Dual tt when the records were over it came back to the arm rest and shut down entirely. Someone did say that this Denon DP-11f is an entry level tt and if so maybe that's just the way it is. All the settings and buttons are outside and up front beyond the dust cover which is an ok design feature.I just really wanted to know what the difference w/ the 2 styles of cartridges and just brought up that power button because it seems to be an annoyance to me ,I have left it on 1 night once already and really do not want to do it again.I guess there is a way to get around this by plugging the tt into the switched outlet in back of the P-301 but to a man here you guys have always said do not plug anything into your preamp's oulets. It's not all that tragic ,all I have to do is when my last record is played for that session lock the arm and push the power button to off.......
    The person is probably right that the DP11F does not shut off because it is an entry level model. My DP59L is semi-automatic. The arm lifts off the record and platter stops at the end of a record.

    Regarding plugging your TT into your preamp's switched outlet, there is nothing wrong with doing so, and it would be a solution to your issue. You can plug in any device rated up to 5A or 600 watts. You would never want to plug something like a big amp that draws a lot of current into a switched outlet.

    BTW, please be kind and put more space between your sentences and use paragraphs. That would make it easier to read your posts. Thanks.
    Last edited by Glen B; 06-02-2013 at 07:05 PM.
    Main system: Denon DP-59L | Audio-Technica AT33EV | Marantz Reference Series SA-11S2 | Classé CP-50, modified | Classé CA-300, modified | Classé DR-10, modified | Classé RC-1 | PSB Stratus Gold i's | DIY Balanced AC Power Conditioner with surge/spike suppression | Acoustic Zen and NeoTech cables | Oyaide and Furutech AC power connectors and receptacles | Hi-Fi Tuning Supreme fuses | Dedicated 20A IG AC line

  7. #7

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    It does have (should have) auto lift; looks like it is electronic rather than mechanical.
    If the OP doesn't have the manual, s/he may download it at http://www.vinylengine.com/library/denon/dp-11f.shtml
    (free registration required to download from Vinyl Engine - and well worth the effort)
    all the best,
    mrh

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    Quote Originally Posted by leftwinger57 View Post
    So higher end pres do have the option on which input to use, so how do you know?
    One more thing, there are a small number of moving coil cartridges that have high enough output that they will work in a standard (MM) phono input like the one in your P-301. They are called high output moving coil cartridges (HOMCs). A couple of examples are the Dynavector 10X5, and Sumiko Blue Point models.
    Main system: Denon DP-59L | Audio-Technica AT33EV | Marantz Reference Series SA-11S2 | Classé CP-50, modified | Classé CA-300, modified | Classé DR-10, modified | Classé RC-1 | PSB Stratus Gold i's | DIY Balanced AC Power Conditioner with surge/spike suppression | Acoustic Zen and NeoTech cables | Oyaide and Furutech AC power connectors and receptacles | Hi-Fi Tuning Supreme fuses | Dedicated 20A IG AC line

  9. #9

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    MHARDY, I do have the manual from Vinyl Engine. It does have a lifter button that just holds the arm in place in space. My Dual used to have a cueing arm as a lifter. I'm not talking about that .At the end of the record it does not power off, all it does is return to the arm rest and all other features do work. I just found that this would be a feature in most ddrive tt to power off after the record is over. It's been 40 some odd years since I've had a tt so maybe I just didn't know what the progression of controls has been. I still think The Grado Black would be the right choice for me when I have to change cartridges @ $60 fits my wallet.Oh I tried your trick to go to the town dump to see if there was anything interesting,well times have changed around these parts. 1st you just drop off your stuff, 2nd no entry or picking through the dumpsters which are all nice tidy lined up rows....

  10. #10

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    You need to move to New England! :-) Most of the small-town "dumps" (most are actually "transfer stations" now, and not dumps/landfills per se) here are still open-access (althoguh some have gone the big-city, limited-liability route). The "yankee swap pile" or "put and take pile" is a tradition here. The town dump is still a center of local communication and particularly of local politics (i.e., when running for a town elected office, it's a necessity to spend a few Saturdays campaigning at the dump!).

    ahem. Back to the Denon tt...

    I'd have to think it's supposed to shut itself off but I can't say I know that it should. I usually disclaim a VE link by saying "in case the OP doesn't have it already", so, sorry about that. :-P

    I like the "Grado Sound" and as long as the Black is happy in the Denon's arm and doesn't exhibit hum or "the Grado Dance", I wouldn't feel obliged to go for anything else (i.e., anything more expensive!) either, FWIW :-)

    EDIT: a view back towards the swap pile at our town dump, taken on a beautiful early summer Saturday morning a couple of years ago :-)

    Last edited by mhardy6647; 06-03-2013 at 08:23 AM.
    all the best,
    mrh

  11. #11

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    I'm pretty sure it would be happy .It already has a Grado GF-3 . The mounting is by the holes of the wings of the cartridge.Seems simple enough to do just do not miss wire pin positions. The dump in Marlboro looked very similar to this one but you couldn't get anywhere near it even to repurpose or salvage something.

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