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  1. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
    Anyway, I hear what you are saying ZLTFUL....no respect taken from those guys....but some of us would like to be a part of the conversation and inject more than ooos ahhs. Without actual self experience....logic and the opinions of others is all we have.
    I honestly don't think you do though.
    Without self experience, you have to rely on others' experiences but you aren't just questioning the why but the logic of the choices made.
    Specifically, BlueFox made a decision to try out something and found it was better. Instead of asking "How do your experiences differ from that of the previous $XXX power cord to the experiences with the new $XXXX power cord?"
    You state that *you* find it hard to believe his choice to go with a more expensive power cable could make that much of a difference.

    I am not defending anyone but I will defer to those with actual experience.

    Let's take my own experiences as an example.
    I love the look of Nordost's flat speaker cables. So much so that I *almost* bought them without listening to them first (Specifically the Freya model).
    But I had no previous experience with these cables. So I looked at posts on forums all over the internet and then made arrangements to take my speakers to a local shop that carried these cables and actually experience them for myself.
    I didn't go onto the forums and tell people that they were wrong or that they couldn't hear that much of a difference because I didn't have those experiences for myself.
    I did ask some questions like, "How full is the top end with those cables?" or "Is the bass/mid-bass muddled at all with them?"
    When I finally did get my ears on a pair of the cables, I could then make the choice based on my own experiences instead of relying on or dismissing the experiences of others.
    (Incidentally, I thought they sucked...especially for a $1700 pair of cables)

    You said it yourself, the music and how it sounds to *you* is all that matters.
    If BlueFox or DaqueKnight or Jhayman or anyone else for that matter says that something they actually tried/did makes a difference in how their system sounds to them, then I am not going to begrudge them spending $XXXX on a power cable versus my DIY power cables.

    Yes, you have a very valid argument with other possible items making a bigger difference in the power supply chain.
    But you also assume that these folks haven't already made those changes.
    But all they were doing were sharing their experiences within the topic of the thread.
    Now if the thread had been questions about the whole circuit from "pole" to internal transformer then it would make sense to discuss those things.

    But the question that was asked dealt with a very specific link in that chain...not the whole chain itself.
    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
    I may have an addiction... RTA-15TL, SDA 2, LSi25, LSi15, LSi9, LSi7, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LS/FX, RT/FX, DSW MP2000...and that's just the Polks...

  2. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
    Its hard for me to understand how a few feet of $1000 power cable can make a difference when there is basic building THHN-TFFN Wire that cost $50 for a 500 ft roll run in the wall? How is the expensive cable going to overcome the standard residential wiring?


    This is my point here...
    You are making the assumption that everyone has Home Depot grade 14/3 running throughout their house and that these folks aren't already using dedicated circuits for their audio systems.
    A lot aren't...but a lot are.
    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
    I may have an addiction... RTA-15TL, SDA 2, LSi25, LSi15, LSi9, LSi7, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LS/FX, RT/FX, DSW MP2000...and that's just the Polks...

  3. #93

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    BlueFox,

    If your views about cables has always been the same then excuse me....I apologize. however, if at any point you were apprehensive about cables and such why don't you understand where I'm coming from? Can I get any slack with you guys?
    FAMILY ROOM
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  4. #94

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    DarqueKnight , BlueFox, ZLTFUL if I affended you guys I apologize. Was not meaning to attack or discredit your experience.

    I think I will sit back and read and try to listen to what ever I can ge my ears on and then some day come back to the discussion. Maybe, I will seek out some groups in the IN/Chicago area? There is a lot I would love to listen to.

    I will gracefully exit stage left.....but let the music play!

    peace fellas.
    Last edited by WLDock; 07-09-2013 at 01:17 PM.
    FAMILY ROOM
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    2 Ch Dreaming...hoping to purchase, build someday???
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  5. #95

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    Shocking this turned into 4 pages....

  6. #96

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    Up until a few months ago I too was very skeptical of Power Cables making a difference, I think my skepticism went on for about 7 pages on here, lol
    I went on what I read around the Internet about yes and No, they can make a difference.i had Zero experience in Power Cables.
    Then one day I decided to actually try one, I bought it from another member here and when it arrived I took it downstairs and I really listened closely to my music and did my best at trying to remember the sounds I hear on certain songs and things, then I unplugged the factory cable and put the new one on my Amp, I immediately noticed a overall sensation on how everything seemed a little better, not a huge impact, but good enough for me to make me a believer in everything matters in the chain..
    I'm not going to say everyone will have the same experience as I did, but for $65 it was pretty cool to know that experience..
    Now would I buy a $1000 power cable, absolutely not as my budget would never allow such a purchase , but I would certainly love to hear them on systems such as Bluefox's and Darqueknight's ..

    Quote Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
    DarqueKnight , BlueFox, ZLTFUL if I affended you guys I apologize. Was not meaning to attack or discredit your experience.

    I think I will sit back and read and try to listen to what ever I can ge my ears on and then some day come back to the discussion. Maybe, I will seek out some groups in the IN/Chicago area? There is a lot I would love to listen to.

    I will gracefully exit stage left.....but let the music play!

    peace fellas.
    Last edited by Jhayman; 07-09-2013 at 02:39 PM.

  7. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
    If your views about cables has always been the same then excuse me....I apologize. however, if at any point you were apprehensive about cables and such why don't you understand where I'm coming from? Can I get any slack with you guys?
    My views on power cords especially have changed over the years. I think you even quoted me where I said that. I bought some inexpensive Pangea AC14, AC14SE, and AC9 cables after reading so much about power cords on this forum. Those cheapo cables actually made a difference, and I was surprised. However, Pangea did not offer a cable with a 20 amp connector, so I never upgraded my amp power cables. Later, I saw Shunyata had a Venom cable with 20 amp connectors, and by that time I had been doing my homework on this subject and knew Shunyata had a good reputation. So, I bought two, and was amazed at the improvement they provided. It was at that point where I went power crazy.

    However, I didn't waste my time trying to tell others they were imaging things when they raved about power cords. I did my research, and realized there might be something to this item.

    As an engineer, I can appreciate what Shunyata has accomplished by discovering DTCD, developing a technology to measure it, and building cables to improve it. I also appreciate their Ztron technology to eliminate distortion caused by cable dieletrics. Both of these technologies make a lot of sense to me, and I am willing to pay for it. Also, Shunyata keeps their prices low compared to other vendors. I appreciate their business philosophy.

    Other than stock, Pangea, and Shunyata, I cannot speak about any benefits from other power cords.

    I can say that upgrading my electrical panel to a 200 amp panel made a visual difference in my home power. The lights no longer flickered when the refrigerator kicked on, or the washing machine or spa ran. I assume this improvement also translates into improved power to the stereo and HT. I can also say a dedicated 20 amp line for both the stereo and HT made an improvement for both systems. This was just regular Home Deport 10 gauge electrical wire with Shunyata outlets.

  8. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
    I'm not new to audio but new to even caring or thinking about wanting to listen to what a $1000 power cable can do.
    .
    That's cool, but if you had the coin to burn, would you ? Audio is played on many levels, if you can't afford a certain level, no shame in it, just don't discount or defuse the conversation is all. No offense ment....

  9. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    I can say that upgrading my electrical panel to a 200 amp panel made a visual difference in my home power. The lights no longer flickered when the refrigerator kicked on, or the washing machine or spa ran. I assume this improvement also translates into improved power to the stereo and HT. I can also say a dedicated 20 amp line for both the stereo and HT made an improvement for both systems. This was just regular Home Deport 10 gauge electrical wire with Shunyata outlets.
    Ok, now we are getting somewhere...maybe you posted this ages ago...you upgraded all the way back to the panel....now this is what I'm talking about. Good to know!




    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb View Post
    That's cool, but if you had the coin to burn, would you ? Audio is played on many levels, if you can't afford a certain level, no shame in it, just don't discount or defuse the conversation is all. No offense ment....
    Yeah, it will take a while for me to put something nice together before I could even think about power wire. I'm sure I would see how a heavier guage DIY cable sounded vs. the OEM cord. Anything beyond that is hard to even fathom at this point as I have a long way to go. Right now I can tell you there is no way in hell I would spend $1k on a single power cord....even if one GAVE me a couple of Pass Lab monoblocks for free! No shame...I'm a poor SOB. However, I would try a $1K power cable if someone would lend me one to check out with the said monoblocks.

    If I liked it....I can't lie it would be unlikely that I would spend that much on one cable....maybe that much for all the cables and wire in the system would be a more realistic goal....maybe? LOL.
    Last edited by WLDock; 07-09-2013 at 04:52 PM.
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  10. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
    Ok, now we are getting somewhere...maybe you posted this ages ago...you upgraded all the way back to the panel....now this is what I'm talking about. Good to know!
    Just to be clear, I upgraded my panel 3-4 years before I ever tried a power cord.

  11. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
    Don't get so caught up in gear and loose focus....
    With all due respect, it actually appears that you are the one who has lost focus as it is you who continues to harp on the cost of other people's gear. If you were really interested in learning about stereo, I would expect you to ask questions along the line of "what kind of performance improvement did you receive when you went from x to y?" Instead, all you offer is passive-aggressive jabs which are indicative of envy and jealousy:

    Quote Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
    Its great that you guys have been into the hobby for awhile and have invested a lot of time, money, research and consider yourselves advanced on the subject...I think thats great.
    Quote Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
    However, don't discount someone else because they ask questions and have doubt about equipment and maybe don't have the means to buy $15,000 in wire.
    Quote Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
    So, $11,000 in cables alone and another $4000 worth on the way? I guess my opinion about cables will never mean anything because I will never get to this level....
    Quote Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
    I know of some awsome musicians that have perfect pitch and amazing ears that don't have $20K-$50K rigs with thosand dollar cables...
    Quote Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
    I know a little something about sound, music, space, and the environment.... even if I haven't compared thousand+ dollar cables on a playback system thats worth more than the average person's car.
    Quote Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
    As I stated...I would actually like to test out $1k+ cables someday.
    Rather than aspiring to test cables with a certain price tag, a person truly interested in audio performance would be interested in cables that provide a specific stereophonic performance benefit. When I began my last equipment upgrade cycle, I did not begin by looking for gear in a particular price range. I began by listening widely and forming a list of the performance aspects I wanted to improve in my current system. As I listened more, it became apparent how much I was going to have to pay to get the performance increases I wanted.

    Quote Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
    I had to repost this one....and twist it...

    You know there are people with $25K-$100K systems that don't know a damn thing about critical listening nor what a euphonium is. Are these guys on the outside or are they advanced because they have expensive gear?
    Does spending a lot of money equate to knowledge and experience? If I bought a hospital, would that make me a doctor? If I bought a pro level golf course and a $50,000 set of clubs, would that make me a champion level golfer? If I bought a Formula 1 race car, would that make me a legitimate race car driver? Of course not. Money cannot buy experience and competence.

    To answer your question, yes, someone who spends a large amount of money for anything without understanding how to fully utilize it is on the outside. Again, your focus on how much other people spend seems to prevent you from using simple reasoning.

    Quote Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
    Don't presume to know all about an individual from a few comments posted on a forum on the internet.
    You should follow your own advice. Haven't you assumed that people who have high end systems purchased them on the basis of cost rather than performance?

    Quote Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
    What constitutes experience? What makes a deep pocket self proclaimed audiophile's ears any better than a poor lifetime street musicians ears? How many here have a PhD in Acoustics, engineering, Physics combined with years of working experience in music plus an awesome portfolio? Is that what it takes to join the audiophile elite club?
    Audiophile elite club? You seem bitter. Most audiophiles do not have deep pockets, just as most oenophiles do not have large, elaborate and expensive wine collections. High end, high quality, high performance audio gear can always be found on the used market for a fraction of its retail price. High performance audio systems don't come cheap, but they don't have to cost a fortune either...if you know how to shop wisely. It is obvious that you do not understand what an audiophile is. Perhaps you don't want to understand.
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Just to be clear, I upgraded my panel 3-4 years before I ever tried a power cord.
    I entered this hobby in 1985. I did not try an aftermarket power cord until 20 years later, in 2005. I did not become interested in high end equipment until 2003 (18 years after entering the hobby)

    A lot of people do not understand that you can be an audiophile without having an expensive system. I was an audiophile during the time that I owned my first "nice" (but not "high end") stereo back in 1985:

    Sony 302 Mk II CD player
    Yamaha P-320 Turntable
    Shure 8HE Phono Cartridge
    Nikko NR-850 65 watt receiver
    Polk Audio Monitor 10B speakers
    One pair of Monster Cable Interlink 400 interconnects
    Original Monster Cable speaker wire

    The retail price of the system was $2,069, but I paid much less than that due to discounts. I knew how to shop wisely even back then. The retail price of that system in 2013 dollars would be $4,480. It wasn't a high end, high performance system, but it facilitated my love of and enjoyment of recorded music.

    I was introduced to audiophilia by the members of an audio club where I worked. Those guys had some serious high end gear. I listened and learned and was able to make intelligent purchase decisions based on what I learned from them. I did not ignorantly and arrogantly question their buying decisions, nor did I assume they were fools because they spent a lot of money on stereo equipment. I was grateful to them for patiently teaching me the benefits of high quality music reproduction. They offered many helpful suggestions toward assembling a modest stereo system. Although I knew and appreciated what high end gear sounded like, I was not interested in that level of performance at that time. That interest developed over a long period of time.
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
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  13. #103

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    WLDock-
    I see in your sig that you have equipment very similar to what I own in my HT. I am curious, what is your current source for powering your setup (I don't see an AVR or separates listed). Also, do you have a dedicated two channel rig?
    So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?


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  14. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarqueKnight View Post
    I entered this hobby in 1985. I did not try an aftermarket power cord until 20 years later, in 2005. I did not become interested in high end equipment until 2003 (18 years after entering the hobby)
    I got into this hobby in the 70s, and had a nice sounding system, even with Radio Shack ICs, and lamp cord for speaker wire. Later, I gave it to an ex-girlfriend (wish I had kept my immaculate albums), went to college, and graduated in 87. A year or so later I bought a Sony CDP, Denon integrated amp, and a pair of SDA2s. For whatever reason, I drifted away from music during the 90s, but did buy my first DVD player in 1999. Then I went on a HT spree, and went through multiple AVRs, and speakers. I ended up with a Sony 7100ES as a pre, a Sunfire TGA 5400 amp, a Sony 3100ES DVD player, and 4 LSi15s, and an LSiC. One night I put a CD into the DVD player, and thought "This sounds pretty good".

    By that time my stereo and rack in the living room was unused, and covered with old HT gear. I cleaned up the stereo, moved the unused gear into the dining room and garage, and started listening to music again. I guess that was around 2007 or so. Anyway, since then it has been one upgrade after another. Probably the most important from a music perspective was my first music server, an iPod/Wadia iTransport with a Benchmark DAC1. I just went crazy buying CDs to feed it, and then started upgrading to get even more music from the system.

    Now I am putting together my retirement system. Once that happens there will be no more buying, only listening. So I better get it correct now. Of course, this upgraditis also applies to the HT. The rear LSi15s, and the Sunfire amp, are all that is left from when I started using it also for music.

    And I upgraded the breaker panel because it was old, and the spa breaker was arcing, which causes another breaker to trip. That breaker controlled a line that covered one side of the house, which included my HT, my stereo, my computers, and my 32" TV.
    Last edited by BlueFox; 07-09-2013 at 11:15 PM.

  15. #105

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    Originally Posted by WLDock
    Its hard for me to understand how a few feet of $1000 power cable can make a difference when there is basic building THHN-TFFN Wire that cost $50 for a 500 ft roll run in the wall? How is the expensive cable going to overcome the standard residential wiring?
    You have to start at the box with dedicated lines. A 12/2 20 amp line is good, a 10/2 30 amp line shielded with aluminum conduit is much better. Run to high quality audio grade outlets with thick aluminum outlet covers. Connect to a high quality power conditioner/surge protector with a high quality cord, then more high quality cords to the gear. The sum total makes all the difference in the world.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    You have to start at the box with dedicated lines. A 12/2 20 amp line is good, a 10/2 30 amp line shielded with aluminum conduit is much better. Run to high quality audio grade outlets with thick aluminum outlet covers. Connect to a high quality power conditioner/surge protector with a high quality cord, then more high quality cords to the gear. The sum total makes all the difference in the world.
    There you go again being an elite audiophile snob. All of the above costs money. What can you suggest that does not cost money or at least a very small amount of money?
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarqueKnight View Post
    There you go again being an elite audiophile snob. All of the above costs money. What can you suggest that does not cost money or at least a very small amount of money?
    And don't forget to provide data and A/B testing clearly showing the above changes can provide an audible improvement. I am an engineer, and know how to use both a multi-meter, and the algebraic version of Ohm's Law, so you need to convince me. Otherwise, what you are saying is not true, because I read that on the Internet. Perhaps you need to learn about the placebo effect.


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    Quote Originally Posted by polrbehr View Post
    WLDock-
    I see in your sig that you have equipment very similar to what I own in my HT. I am curious, what is your current source for powering your setup (I don't see an AVR or separates listed). Also, do you have a dedicated two channel rig?
    Right not I have an old Sony AVR laying around that is nothing to talk about. I was considering using a Parasound 2003 3Ch along with an Onkyo 805 but the Pioneer Elite units really caught my attention. I was in the proccess of deciding on an AVR and was going to pull the trigger on a Pioneer Elite SC-25 but moving to a new home last week got in the way. Nevertheless, the plan is still to pick up a used Elite SC unit here soon. From there I have plans to improve my wiring and play with the crossovers in the Polks.

    I don't have a 2 ch rig but would like to some day build a DIT kit using Scan, Seas, Usher, SB Acoustics, etc drivers. I always wanted to try running mono blocks so maybe I will see what I can find in the used market at some point. Also, I would like to try out one of the Oppo units for audio as well as video. then, the Peachtree audio DAC units seem really nice...I have yet to really convert over to digital. I have never owned an iPod nor have I burned all my CD's yet....but being one of the last to do so I will at some point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    And don't forget to provide data and A/B testing clearly showing the above changes can provide an audible improvement. I am an engineer, and know how to use both a multi-meter, and the algebraic version of Ohm's Law, so you need to convince me. Otherwise, what you are saying is not true, because I read that on the Internet. Perhaps you need to learn about the placebo effect.

    That's right. The audio scientists on the Internet taught me that every type of electrical phenomena can be measured with a multimeter and quantified by ohm's law. Now I feel stupid for letting my EE professors con me into studying electrical properties of matter and electronics, where I had to learn about all those equations that characterized electrical noise. I think I will put my oscilloscope up for sale on ePrey. I will let someone else waste their time analyzing time and frequency domain performance of audio cables.

    Everything I know about audio science I learned on the Internet:

    1. If something is not measurable it does not exist.
    2. There are no measurable differences in cables, amplifiers or source components.
    3. If there is a measurable difference, the difference is not audible.
    4. If the measurable difference is shown to be within the bounds of human audibility, a double blind test must confirm the difference, otherwise, no bueno.
    5. An audiophile is a lover of expensive equipment rather than a lover of well recorded music.
    6. Scientists invented home stereo systems, but all audiophiles hate science, including the large contingent of audiophiles within the IEEE.
    7. Spending a lot of money on something guarantees that you will perceive a benefit, even if the benefit does not exist.
    8. If an audiophile, who has credible scientific training and experience, supports audio observations with measurement and data, such data can be dismissed by claiming that the audiophile suffers from any number of mental disorders.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarqueKnight View Post
    That's right. The audio scientists on the Internet taught me that every type of electrical phenomena can be measured with a multimeter and quantified by ohm's law. Now I feel stupid for letting my EE professors con me into studying electrical properties of matter and electronics, where I had to learn about all those equations that characterized electrical noise. I think I will put my oscilloscope up for sale on ePrey. I will let someone else waste their time analyzing time and frequency domain performance of audio cables.

    Everything I know about audio science I learned on the Internet:

    1. If something is not measurable it does not exist.
    2. There are no measurable differences in cables, amplifiers or source components.
    3. If there is a measurable difference, the difference is not audible.
    4. If the measurable difference is shown to be within the bounds of human audibility, a double blind test must confirm the difference, otherwise, no bueno.
    5. An audiophile is a lover of expensive equipment rather than a lover of well recorded music.
    6. Scientists invented home stereo systems, but all audiophiles hate science, including the large contingent of audiophiles within the IEEE.
    7. Spending a lot of money on something guarantees that you will perceive a benefit, even if the benefit does not exist.
    8. If an audiophile, who has credible scientific training and experience, supports audio observations with measurement and data, such data can be dismissed by claiming that the audiophile suffers from any number of mental disorders.
    I was wondering when you were going to come around...

    WLD, going to PM you soon.
    So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?


    http://audiomilitia.proboards.com/

  21. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by polrbehr View Post
    I was wondering when you were going to come around...
    Look for my oscilloscope and a Cable Cooker in the Flea Market.
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarqueKnight View Post
    That's right. The audio scientists on the Internet taught me that every type of electrical phenomena can be measured with a multimeter and quantified by ohm's law. Now I feel stupid for letting my EE professors con me into studying electrical properties of matter and electronics, where I had to learn about all those equations that characterized electrical noise. I think I will put my oscilloscope up for sale on ePrey. I will let someone else waste their time analyzing time and frequency domain performance of audio cables.

    Everything I know about audio science I learned on the Internet:

    1. If something is not measurable it does not exist.
    2. There are no measurable differences in cables, amplifiers or source components.
    3. If there is a measurable difference, the difference is not audible.
    4. If the measurable difference is shown to be within the bounds of human audibility, a double blind test must confirm the difference, otherwise, no bueno.
    5. An audiophile is a lover of expensive equipment rather than a lover of well recorded music.
    6. Scientists invented home stereo systems, but all audiophiles hate science, including the large contingent of audiophiles within the IEEE.
    7. Spending a lot of money on something guarantees that you will perceive a benefit, even if the benefit does not exist.
    8. If an audiophile, who has credible scientific training and experience, supports audio observations with measurement and data, such data can be dismissed by claiming that the audiophile suffers from any number of mental disorders.
    That is an excellent summary Ray.

    Also, I wanted to add that not only must a double blind study be conducted if there is a measurable difference that is in the bounds of human audibility, but the those measurements must also be peer reviewed and confirmed by a panel of experts such as Roger Russel, etc.
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:

    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee

  23. #113

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    DK & BF would love to sit down in person with you guys and throw back a couple of beers, wine, water, etc and talk audio...you both seem like great resources....However, claiming I'm showing passive-aggressive jabs, envy and jealousy is a far fetch. I never personally attacked you guys nor even jabbed above nor below the belt.

    For some resason I think the point was missed early on that I was questioning the effectivness of expensive cables if other areas were not addressed. Yet, later in the thread it was confirmed that those areas in Fox's system were already updated. However, before he addressed my original question he stated what cords he had and how much they cost and how he consider power cables as part of the foundation in his system.

    This thread really could have gone a different direction. However, as I understand it from others....this is not the 1st time this sort of thing has happened here. Let's move on in a positive direction.


    Anyway,
    I'm a little older like you guys and remeber the days in the late 80's early 90's when there were at least 5-6 high end audio stores whithin a 30 minute drive. Some of the sales guys would let you bring in your discs and listen away. At that time I had a folder with glossy literature of all the gear I was really interested in. My dream system them was:

    Source: Nakamichi
    Pre-Amp: Adcom
    Amps; Adcom
    Speakers: B&W 801 or 802
    Wires: Audioquest

    Around '90 and realizing that system was not going to happen so I put together a decent lower priced system consisting of a Yamaha rack system with an Integrated Amp, Tuner, tape deack, and CD combined with Sony SS-TL5 4-way transmision line speakers. http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-SS-TL5.html

    From there I put my energy into car audio. I put together a system with and Alpine deck, PPI amp, Boston Acoustics Pro Series componets and Sub. Since then I would guess I have spent about $15K+ in car audio to date and maybe about $2K in home audio to date.

    Now my focus has changed and I would like to build a dedicated home theater room some day as well as a ref 2 Ch system.....once I decide to buy a house. Currently renting as I'm newly relocated from MI to IN. What sucks is the room my A/V system is in is now smaller compared to the house I just moved from. When I decide to buy I will for sure consider how well A/V integrates into the room.

    Its the start of a new journey...I will even throw out my oem power cords and replacement with something rather it be off the shelf or DIY..

    yes Sir!
    FAMILY ROOM
    TV - Mitsubishi WD-73734 73" DLP 1080P | AVR - Onkyo TX-NR3008 | Source - Sony PS3 Slim 320GB | Front - PolkAudio RT3000p | Center -PolkAudio CS400i | Surround - PolkAudio F/X1000 | Sub - DIY Stereo Integrity HT 15 | Sub Amp - Behringer EUROPOWER EP2500

    2 Ch Dreaming...hoping to purchase, build someday???
    OPPO 105 | Cary or Rogue Audio tube Preamp | Parasound HALO A21 amp | DIY Mini Statements towers

  24. #114

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    Having a smaller audio room can be a blessing. One friend in particular has complimented me several times at how well my 2 channel performs for HT. The reason it works so well is that the 6311's are a perfect match for a 14x12 room. Along with the 2CH is a 120" screen that is the absolute perfect size for the room. It gives you a cozy feel and makes it truly feel like a private movie theater. I toy around with adding 2 channels to the rears/sides, but it isn't worth the investment in my eyes, at least not at this point.

    To accentuate that point, he runs a Pioneer SC receiver with LSiM's and I believe an SVS sub in a room about twice the size. He still prefers mine due to the impact and engagement it creates. The smaller room can be a blessing if you get the right gear in there.
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Essence Audio HDACC, Douglas IC's, Douglas Alpha bi-wire SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

  25. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
    DK & BF would love to sit down in person with you guys and throw back a couple of beers, wine, water, etc and talk audio...you both seem like great resources....However, claiming I'm showing passive-aggressive jabs, envy and jealousy is a far fetch. I never personally attacked you guys nor even jabbed above nor below the belt.
    Oh, ok. Sorry for misunderstanding you.

    Quote Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
    For some resason I think the point was missed early on that I was questioning the effectivness of expensive cables if other areas were not addressed. Yet, later in the thread it was confirmed that those areas in Fox's system were already updated. However, before he addressed my original question he stated what cords he had and how much they cost and how he consider power cables as part of the foundation in his system.
    The thing you don't seem to understand about real audiophiles is that they, similar to serious practitioners in other hobbies, progress from entry level gear to more advanced gear. This assures that the "other areas" have been addressed. It is impossible to make informed purchase decisions without proper study and experience. Affluent people go into high end audio salons, plop down their credit cards and say "give me the best you've got" and then go on to brag about their "high end audiophile" status, while not knowing the fundamentals of putting a quality audio together. "The best" in any sensory activity like audio is always subjective.

    Quote Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
    This thread really could have gone a different direction. However, as I understand it from others....this is not the 1st time this sort of thing has happened here. Let's move on in a positive direction.
    It seems to me that this thread is going well. If you believe that I, and others, are offended, you are mistaken. Amused would be the correct term. Cable threads are always entertaining, mostly because the people with the strongest opinions are those with the least, or no, experience with high quality audio and power cables.
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
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  26. #116

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    This was posted on another forum. Just as a heads up, a Ztron Anaconda goes for $3K, a Triton goes for $5K, and a Typhon goes for $5K.

    It is no less than invasion. 8 Ztron Anaconda power cords, 1 Triton and 1 Typhon finally arrived. The T/Ts have invaded my smaller Pagode rack (each sitting on seperate shelves connected via ztron Anaconda either). 2 Anacondas now behind Arc Ref610t monos, 1 at the main plug to Triton, 1 for Emm xds1 player, 1 for Arc Ref3, 1 for Arc Ref2 se phono, even 1 for turntable synchronous motor. Am I crazy? Presumably, yes

    First let them burn in a bit and we will see.
    http://www.audioaficionado.org/510642-post1.html

  27. #117

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    Oh well...this tread is already derailed a bit.....sorry!

    Quote Originally Posted by DSkip View Post
    Having a smaller audio room can be a blessing. One friend in particular has complimented me several times at how well my 2 channel performs for HT. The reason it works so well is that the 6311's are a perfect match for a 14x12 room. Along with the 2CH is a 120" screen that is the absolute perfect size for the room. It gives you a cozy feel and makes it truly feel like a private movie theater. I toy around with adding 2 channels to the rears/sides, but it isn't worth the investment in my eyes, at least not at this point.
    To accentuate that point, he runs a Pioneer SC receiver with LSiM's and I believe an SVS sub in a room about twice the size. He still prefers mine due to the impact and engagement it creates. The smaller room can be a blessing if you get the right gear in there.
    I went from having a kitchen w/ a small eat in area, a dinning room, a living room, and a 24'x12' lower level room that I turned into semi theater/family room. Because the room is so long and narrow I set it up with two rows and I have a desk in the back left corner:



    Now I have a a kitchen with a medium sized eat-in area and a 17.7'x13.5' family room. I'm missing the equivlent of two rooms! I had to put the HT loveseat and couch recliners and the living room couch and chair all in the same room! What throws things off is the fireplace in the corner. I had to squeeze the TV and the speakers in there....it was so tight that I had to move the left speaker in front of the fireplace so that I could toe them in a bit. The tv vewing distance is fine but the speakers are a little close to the walls....Oh well.



    It was crazy for the fist two days but now I'm used to it. This is home for another year or two.
    FAMILY ROOM
    TV - Mitsubishi WD-73734 73" DLP 1080P | AVR - Onkyo TX-NR3008 | Source - Sony PS3 Slim 320GB | Front - PolkAudio RT3000p | Center -PolkAudio CS400i | Surround - PolkAudio F/X1000 | Sub - DIY Stereo Integrity HT 15 | Sub Amp - Behringer EUROPOWER EP2500

    2 Ch Dreaming...hoping to purchase, build someday???
    OPPO 105 | Cary or Rogue Audio tube Preamp | Parasound HALO A21 amp | DIY Mini Statements towers

  28. #118

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    Default Shunyata Replica DIY

    10awg 5' DIY "Anaconda" power cord replica, total cost $95, looks and sounds wonderful

    Last edited by Spankie101; 07-30-2013 at 09:53 PM. Reason: info

  29. #119

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    I hate to wake a sleeping dog, but...

    I've spent countless hours reading on here. I'm like a sponge. I've never compared a new cord to one that has been burned-in, I'm new to ALL this, so I have absolutely NO OPINION on the matter. However I recently put Dynamat inside my Blu-ray player and added a Pangea power cord at the same time and noticed a difference. Since I did both on the same day I can't contribute the changes I hear to one or the other. So I do know first hand that little things can make a difference and wondered if I'll hear a difference as time passes and my cord gets used. After I heard a difference after my changes, I thought about this infamous thread. So I have a question for all the people that say burning-in a cord makes a difference. Once a cord is burned-in, are the "changes" to the cord permanent?

    For example, I have a power conditioner and each outlet is programmable to be switched or unswitched. If your cords are plugged into an outlet that is switched and you have it turned off so no current to getting to the cords for a long period of time, do those cords revert back to being "new" or are the changes made during the burn-in process permanent? If you don't use your system for one month, does it take time for it to break in again sonically?

    Again, I have no opinion on this, I'm just curious to hear your answers because I'm trying to understand it.
    Pioneer Elite SC-05 | Pioneer BDP-51FD | Pangea: AC-9SE, AC-14 PC's
    Monster PowerCenter HTS 5000 | Sony Bravia KDL-46S4100 | Dish HDTV
    Polk: RTi8 Towers, CSi5 Center, F/Xi3 Surrounds, CSi3 Single Rear | Polk Subs: PSW125-12", PSW303-8"
    Douglas Connection: Furez DCF124BW SC's | AudioQuest Chocolate HDMI | Monster: M850 SW-12, ULT I1000FO-4 IC's
    Acoustic Treatments OC703 | Dynamat: Components, Baskets

  30. #120

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    No....cords don't "revert" back to being new. Burn in happens slowly over time and the only way to really compare is to have 2 identical cords one being new and one being used for about 200-300 hours.

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