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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by nooshinjohn View Post
    Some things are best left to a group of individuals working together from within than from the outside looking in.
    Last I heard it was "of the people" So by telling the people by any means he is confiding in the very body and basis this country is founded on. If the leeches in Washington can't get on board then let them fall. I see his actions as more of an attempt at continued awareness rather than a wikileaks sort of affair.
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  2. #32

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    Perhaps John, there may still be some of character and integrity down there but that still won't insure the mans safety. Was it done without any thought to consequences ? Yep....but he himself has put the country between a rock and a hard place with no other solution but to go after him for treason. This we agree on.

    Now, if any of you kind gentlemen would like to look up the very definition of treason, I'm pretty sure we can apply that to more than half of congress and the executive branch. A big/tough/meaningful word that when applied to the average citizen invokes hatred for betraying ones country. When applied to those in power however.....means diddly.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by SDA1C View Post
    Last I heard it was "of the people" So by telling the people by any means he is confiding in the very body and basis this country is founded on. If the leeches in Washington can't get on board then let them fall. I see his actions as more of an attempt at continued awareness rather than a wikileaks sort of affair.
    From ABC News...

    Wikileaks founder Julian Assange said Wednesday that his group has been in touch with Edward Snowden’s legal team, the man who says he’s behind the National Security Agency leaks.

    “We are in touch with Mr. Snowden’s legal team and have been, are involved, in the process of brokering his asylum in Iceland,” Assange said on a conference call with reporters marking his one year since entering the Ecuadoran embassy in London seeking asylum.

    Assange said he feels a “great deal of personal sympathy” with Snowden, but would not comment if he has spoken to Snowden directly or if they were in contact before Snowden leaked news to The Guardian and The Washington Post that detailed secret, far-reaching NSA Internet and phone surveillance programs.
    IMHO if it walks like a duck and quacks like one... you are the company you keep, and in this case treasonistas stick together.

    Again, don't misunderstand my position. I too believe as you do that the NSA bs is completely wrong and horrific in it's implications for freedom. Even Mr . O was targeted in 2004 by some reports. This must stop and the wrongdoers brought to justice. because of how Mr. Snowden went about exposing this, he needs his day in court as well. I don't think he will get much in the way of jail time here, but we are a nation of laws, not a nation of feelings. Justice must be done or the Constitution is just toilet paper.

    I'm out on this one lest I be silenced by the powers that be...........
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  4. #34

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    Julian Assange is Australian. Does that make him guilty of treason?

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Julian Assange is Australian. Does that make him guilty of treason?
    Only if he reveals Australian secrets.

    It maybe this guy went about revealing what he knew in the wrong way, but looking at it from his perspective, did he really have other options without putting himself in harms way ? People have been killed for less than this. Don't under estimate self preservation, in anyone, I don't care who you are. The smoke being blown about in the press is for your benefit, to justify actions that will be taken against this guy. Who then, is left to pass judgment on those who sit on the throne ? That's the whole point of these leakers, like Assange. Governments hold the power, and investigate....themselves ? Might as well ask Tony Soprano to look into loan sharking. Now, I dunno about the motives of some of these leakers either. Some just want everything to fall into anarchy around the globe, which btw seems to be well on it's way.

    All in all, I'm on the fence with these leaker types. I understand the wrong in it, but also agree with the right in it as well. I guess to me it all comes down to the motives involved.

  6. #36

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    I give two big Thumbs Up to Assange and Snowden.

    However, that's only if their actions don't interfere with the ability of our Congressmen(women) and Senators to continue insider trading.
    I guess I should also mention Congressional staff members who, with the recent passage of the latest "Insider Trading" bill (forget the number) are now allowed to also legally participate in insider trading.
    And, technically (according to several sources), Congressional pages. Them too.
    Awesome !

    Because if our Washington representatives are ever prevented from privately engorging their finances while in office, well .... I could see where there may be a backlash and we could possibly see a severe cutback in their flag waving !! And just think what that would do to our country's prestige worldwide !

    That's just my opinion, though.
    That, and to steal a quote from our friend Bill Shakespeare, "Cry havoc and let loose the dogs of war".


    .....or perhaps some insight from "The Hombres": "Let It All Hang Out" ?

    Yeah, I'm going with "The Hombres".

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbigbluelight View Post
    However, that's only if their actions don't interfere with the ability of our Congressmen(women) and Senators to continue insider trading.
    I guess I should also mention Congressional staff members who, with the recent passage of the latest "Insider Trading" bill (forget the number) are now allowed to also legally participate in insider trading.
    And, technically (according to several sources), Congressional pages. Them too.
    Awesome !

    LOL.....and you see any stories on that on the main stream news channels ? It's a big Ivy league boys club and your not in it, well....your wallet is, but you....nah.

    My wife and I having dealt with many corporate CEO's, board members, higher executives , have the same conclusions. If anyone cares to take notice, they follow each other around from company to company giving themselves and their Ivy league pals huge golden parachutes while destroying the company they set out to supposedly save. Once the numbers reach what the bankers want, they move on after cashing in and start all over again somewhere else. Reminds me of government in a sense that you can do no wrong, takes mountains to be moved to fire anyone, and when you do screw up your butt is covered and you'll most likely get promoted to another position. Any threats to either of those lifestyles in the corporate world or government will be quickly trounced on by those who stand to gain from such.

  8. #38

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    He is in Moscow now and heading to Ecuador....
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  9. #39

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    I'm more concerned with getting EH fitted for a nice orange jumpsuit!
    I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!

  10. #40

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    Logged on to our local newspaper's website, read an article, and went to the "Comments" section to see what my local citizens had to say.
    And, as usual, couldn't read them because I block trackers. Don't let yourself be tracked, don't get to read everything.
    Which is fair, to a degree. They have to make money somehow, so getting revenue from ads is one way to do it. And, to a degree, showing advertisers that their ads are being clicked on is one way to affirm the effectiveness of their ad placements.
    But:

    36 Trackers, according to "Don't Track Me" ?

    Click image for larger version

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    53 Trackers, according to "Ghostery" ?

    Click image for larger version

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    I'm impressed !

    BTW, that article about "Teen Seeking Grass-Cutting Job Is Kicked, Forced to Drink Vodka" ?
    I thought, hey, how hard can an old man kick ? So I was going to call him and ask him if it would be possible to substitute tequila for vodka (I have too much testosterone for vodka), but no luck. He's being held on $20,000 cash bond.

  11. #41

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    I got nothing to hide and I could give a rat's ass about the whole thing. My only feelings are feelings of sorrow for any group or individuals who get their rocks off looking into my affairs, with or without my consent. They're going to be disappointed and bored to tears.

  12. #42

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    Everyone breaks laws whether they know it or not. There's articles about how the average person breaks 3 laws per day. It's just the way the system is setup. The more granularity in the government's surveillance then the more likely they have the opportunity to catch you doing something "wrong". Couple this with abuse of power such as this guy in TN:

    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...-quality.shtml

    and anyone reasonable would want to ensure the government doesn't know too much about the nitty gritty of one's life.

  13. #43

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    What worries me is how we accept more and more tracking. 40 years ago anyone who gave any real thought to it didn't like the idea the gov could figure out where you had been because of using a credit card. Later caller ID made the idea of an anonymous call seem silly. Then all of a sudden you had a camera pointed at you in stores, then at every intersection. Then the dreaded cell phone! Continuous tracking! Now even your thought process when doing a google search, drones flying over large land owners property to see what they are doing, and all personal email being collected! We better hope we never get a dictator in office.
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  14. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by madmax View Post
    What worries me is how we accept more and more tracking. 40 years ago anyone who gave any real thought to it didn't like the idea the gov could figure out where you had been because of using a credit card. Later caller ID made the idea of an anonymous call seem silly. Then all of a sudden you had a camera pointed at you in stores, then at every intersection. Then the dreaded cell phone! Continuous tracking! Now even your thought process when doing a google search, drones flying over large land owners property to see what they are doing, and all personal email being collected! We better hope we never get a dictator in office.
    Name:  boiled_frogs_col.jpg
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    I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!

  15. #45

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    I heard a great question the other day. In your daily thoughts are you more afraid of being blown up by a terrorist or losing your personal rights and liberties to the government? That does look like a relaxiing bath!
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  16. #46

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    If you use the internet, credit/debit card and a cell phone; they already have enough metadata on you to predict where you will be next Tuesday at 11:17 AM. I'll probably be at the Walmart buying tinfoil.
    >
    >
    >This message has been scanned by the NSA and found to be free of harmful intent.<

  17. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by madmax View Post
    I heard a great question the other day. In your daily thoughts are you more afraid of being blown up by a terrorist or losing your personal rights and liberties to the government? That does look like a relaxiing bath!
    Maybe I lead a REALLY boring life, far more boring than I ever thought possible (I concede that it IS boring), but I am free, at liberty if you will, to do just about anything my heart desires. My heart desires throwing some people down a flight of stairs, but that is not one of the personal freedoms I'M SUPPOSED to enjoy anyway, so I don't do it for fear of reprisal from the government, be it local, state, or federal government. Just about everything else is okay though.

    I think I've still got it pretty good, so I'm sticking around.

    And I'm going to spend some time sending signals to Ken's headgear while I'm sticking around.
    Last edited by George Grand; 06-25-2013 at 07:50 PM.

  18. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polkersince85 View Post
    If you use the internet, credit/debit card and a cell phone; they already have enough metadata on you to predict where you will be next Tuesday at 11:17 AM. I'll probably be at the Walmart buying tinfoil.
    LOL...true.

    The thing for me is, and to those who don't care if they listen in on your boring life, how long before all this information is used against you ? Sure, you don't care now because it doesn't affect your day to day, but it never fails that information can and will be used against you at some point.

    Too much concentrated power always results in abuse. Hasn't history taught us that lesson over and over again ? Just look at today's top stories, abuse of power, targeting, corruption, etc. Even when it happens infront of your nose people look the other way. Only when it affects our day to day lives do we stand and take notice but by then it's always too late.

    Can't speak for others, but for me....you have to start asking yourself some serious questions about all this. Whats the purpose of it all ? Is it for what they say it is for ? Is it to get more into compliance with laws, or to raise revenue to sustain and ever growing public sector ? Is it social engineering at it's worse...or the result of a bunch of failed idea logs in positions of power ? Is it to catch terrorists....or to identify political enemies and punish them ....or both ? What do you fear most ? Being blown up by some wacko terrorist.....or what your government can do or take from you ? Tell you what, being blown up by some terrorist is not high on my priority list that's for sure.

    Getting off track here, but back to these leaker types. I kinda like them, if for anything they show that the shiny angelic halo over the American way is a bit rusty and bent. The motives may all differ between these types, but the truth remains and it is up to the people themselves to do something about it.....or accept it. That's the telling part of all this.

  19. #49

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    On my list of things that worry me, getting blown up by the bad guys does rank higher than whatever freedoms I am supposedly losing.

    Going back years and years now, Herbert Hoover and the guys had good dirt (not just any old dirt either, they had the real deal) on an awful lot of people. Nixon had good dirt on folks I'm sure. Maybe not on everybody, but certainly on anybody that they WANTED to. Whatever became of all that good dirt? A couple books maybe?

  20. #50

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    Those willing to give up liberty for security deserve neither and will lose both

    Benjamin Franklin
    I believe you were there when Ben said this George. You surprise me by just how willing you appear to disregard his warning.
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  21. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by George Grand View Post
    Whatever became of all that good dirt? A couple books maybe?
    Well now that's the beauty of having dirt to begin with, you get to tell them what to do, how to vote, or else. While small scale back in the Nixon days, we've taken going after political enemies to a whole new level. Before it was limited to Washington, now it's on a national level and even Joe citizen is included. It may or may not ruffle your feathers, who knows, but wrong is wrong and as long as it's allowed to slide it can only get worse.

    We as Americans have such short attention spans, we just move from one crisis to the next without fixing the previous one or holding anyone accountable. Even a low wage McDonalds worker can't get away with that, but our congress/executive branch can. I guess our French fries and nuggets have become top priority.

  22. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by George Grand View Post
    On my list of things that worry me, getting blown up by the bad guys does rank higher than whatever freedoms I am supposedly losing.
    Cool, I hope you don't get pinched when the computer spits out that over the past 5 years you happened to end up at the same location as 7 different terrorists several times. The clincher was when you purchased that box of nails the same day as one of the terrorist bought a pressure cooker and he accidentally punched in your phone number by mistake that same evening right after his buddy called him. Funny how many coincidences could happen when you track everyone in the country.
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  23. #53

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    I think I'm hearing the most amount of squawking about losing freedoms and rights, from people who have never done a thing to protect and preserve those rights.

    Don't look at me, I gots 32 years.

  24. #54

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    Deleted...
    Last edited by nooshinjohn; 06-27-2013 at 02:37 AM.
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  25. #55

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    Paranoia strikes deep.
    Into your life it will creep .
    It starts when you're always afraid .
    You step out of line, the man come and take you away.
    If you can't hear a difference, don't waste your money.

  26. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by decal View Post
    Paranoia strikes deep.
    Into your life it will creep .
    It starts when you're always afraid .
    You step out of line, the man come and take you away.
    True to some extent, but it's not paranoia when it happens infront of your nose. Just ask any Jew who lived in Europe back when. Ever wonder why so many Jews stayed in Germany ? They didn't think it would happen as it did, people were just being paranoid about Hitler. Ignoring some facts cost many their lives. If they payed attention and things turned out different and they were wrong, what would they have lost ? That's the inherit danger when you become a "sheep", sooner or later you'll be slaughtered. If I learned anything in my years, the one thing that stands out is to never underestimate the evil in man/ group of men when too much power and money are concentrated.

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    Paranoia strikes deep.
    Into your life it will creep .
    It starts when you're always afraid .
    You step out of line, the man come and take you away.



    When the guy who runs the free world started his career hanging out with these guys, there is reason to be concerned.

    How ironic is it that the flower children that sought peace and love and harmony with the universe have created the very beast they feared the most and now crave the power to use it.
    Last edited by nooshinjohn; 06-27-2013 at 12:09 PM.
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    Just think most of those types are teachers these days, filling young minds with B.S. Again, I refer to the very definition of "treason" and ask how these people aren't in jail ? Leakers who supposedly steal info are considered treasonous, yet people who openly strive for the downfall of the American government are allowed to teach. Some even committed murder. If teachers are to be held as an important position in society, shouldn't more scrutiny apply to the quality of the teacher ? Just sayin' is all.

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    News Flash....... The government of the U.S. has been watching it's citizens for years. There is nothing clandestine about it. A goon squad is not coming to your house to take away your first born son.
    If you can't hear a difference, don't waste your money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by George Grand View Post
    I think I'm hearing the most amount of squawking about losing freedoms and rights, from people who have never done a thing to protect and preserve those rights.

    Don't look at me, I gots 32 years.
    Well jeesh, that was a poke in the eye to a nice conversation. Its good to see we have at least one true american on board though. :)

    Speaking of paranoia, just because you are not paranoid doesn't mean they are not after you.
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

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