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  1. #61

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    Mantis, good info. I'd like to know if the bi-polar sound out of the BP-8080st's is anything like an SDA sound-stage. I know they have to sit at least 2 feet off the back wall for any of this to work. I "assume" you would really want this firing strait ahead. If you toe them in, that would mess with the back firing drivers. But thats a guess.

  2. #62

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    No, they're not "SDA like". In your typical living room, they will sound a little more "spacious" though. In a lively room, don't even consider them. Nothing is "SDA like" but SDA's.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by mantis View Post
    I could easily go on and on about speakers 3k and under that I feel are much better then any SDA made speakers. I do however love the SDA models and think they bring a lot to the table even after all these years. They are remarkable sounding speakers and I agree , they where ahead of their time. We get them in every swap sale and I find myself listening to them a lot and more then others that come in.
    Double talk much?

    Speakers are to personal to say they are better then this or that.
    Yet, you just did.
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  4. #64

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    Well there's a resounding NO from Face...LOL The bi-polar design in theory, would seem to hold merit. But not alot of companies have jumped on that bandwagon, DT for some reason sticks with it, and has had 20 years to get it right by this time. Now i know the back firing drivers are cut down a few DB from the fronts, if there is some type of time delay built into this, not sure.

    It would seem..in "theory" to give you a more open ,airy, spacious soundstage. But not having heard them, i can't say.



    How Polk did this with the SDA's..don't know. Lets forget about the CD's that really shine with the SDA "effect"..lets take stock, not so "sda"friendly cd's. Now even on those the soundstage again is very open , airy..and large. It would be pretty depressing to have the DT's shipped here. Then bring out the 30 year old 1C's, and they end up to have a better soundstage...



    Now i don't know if that would happen. But as Face says..there is Nothing like the SDA sound...

  5. #65

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    The 1C will have a larger soundstage, no doubt about that.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

  6. #66

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    Well Face...I'm not sure i'd JUMP to that conclusion...have your heard these new speakers from DT??

    If not..may not be 100% true. If you were talking stock front firing speakers like the RTi12's....sure.

    But these DT speakers maybe not. Not saying your going to get the SDA "effect" out of them, but the soundstage may not be as small as you think..just saying.

  7. #67

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    From what i get out of DT..the guys who designed this bi-polar thing were originally from Polk.

    Now they have had 20 years to work on this. I'm sure they were not going for the SDA"effect" deal, but the soundstage, may be another story. Not sure i have this info right, but, not sure you can say outright the soundstage is lacking as compared to an SDA.

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
    It seems the Golden Ear Technology Triton 2 receives the same feedback on regarding the low end(yet VERY MIXED feedback overall) being(same designer) and rated 16 Hz - 35 kHz freq response and testing at 30 Hz to 20 kHz 3.2 dB. At $2500 these seem interesting....especially with the folded ribbon tweets....been wanting to hear these for awhile.
    I have heard those speakers 2 times in different setups with different gear. Both times I left un-impressed especially given their price. I could get some better bookshelves and a sub that would do MUCH better for the price IMHO.

    I really wanted to like them since I have heard and liked the Definitive stuff (but couldnt afford it) but the Triton stuff was subpar IMHO. I would go with Definitive Tech stuff over their gear all day long.
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  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by naturallight View Post
    Mantis, good info. I'd like to know if the bi-polar sound out of the BP-8080st's is anything like an SDA sound-stage. I know they have to sit at least 2 feet off the back wall for any of this to work. I "assume" you would really want this firing strait ahead. If you toe them in, that would mess with the back firing drivers. But thats a guess.
    I have a pair of BP10 and they sound very good.
    Sound is more airy and spreads in the room, especially on the songs that have more cymbals or other resonating instruments.
    AFAIK, those rear firing tweeter/mid are not meant to cancel crosstalk but to give a wider soundstage (more real life experience) so you don't have to sit on that one small sweetspot to enjoy the effect.

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  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
    I have heard those speakers 2 times in different setups with different gear. Both times I left un-impressed especially given their price. I could get some better bookshelves and a sub that would do MUCH better for the price IMHO. I really wanted to like them since I have heard and liked the Definitive stuff (but couldnt afford it) but the Triton stuff was subpar IMHO. I would go with Definitive Tech stuff over their gear all day long.
    WOW! Like I said...these speakers get such mixed feedback. I still want to hear them. Also, I need to hear some of the later Definitive stuff. Man do I remember so well the early/first Definitive. I was at a high end store and they had a full blown set(The mains were the top BP set at the time with the large sub) with a large projection screen. They had some live concert footage on Laserdisc....the large screen and sound stage was blowing my mind. That was the first home theater demo that really caught my attention. I was set on owning a set of Definitives one day......still waiting. LOL.


    Anyway, opinion vary about speakers to such a high degree. I hate that I missed the Audio Expo in Chicago this Spring...I need to get out and hear some stuff. Looks like it will be back next year....I will be there: http://www.axpona.com/
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  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    Double talk much?



    Yet, you just did.
    Yeah I did , got a problem with that? The SDA's are old , they had their time in the light. I feel to many much better sounding to me speakers are to be had. Kinda like having the same thing for dinner night after night.
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  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by naturallight View Post
    Mantis, good info. I'd like to know if the bi-polar sound out of the BP-8080st's is anything like an SDA sound-stage. I know they have to sit at least 2 feet off the back wall for any of this to work. I "assume" you would really want this firing strait ahead. If you toe them in, that would mess with the back firing drivers. But thats a guess.
    The Bi Polar sound is open and wide. It gives you a sense or realism in the room. It puts out a huge sound stage with very believable size.
    As far as setting them up , you still set them up toed in. I line them up with your ears slightly pointing about 2 to 3 feet behind your head. So basically you still see the inside panels of the speakers. Keeping some distance away from the back wall makes them sound very natural. If you get them to close , the bass booms a bit. The subs are powerful and get away from you if your not careful.
    They are well worth a listen.
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  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystery View Post
    I have a pair of BP10 and they sound very good.
    Sound is more airy and spreads in the room, especially on the songs that have more cymbals or other resonating instruments.
    AFAIK, those rear firing tweeter/mid are not meant to cancel crosstalk but to give a wider soundstage (more real life experience) so you don't have to sit on that one small sweetspot to enjoy the effect.
    Thats basically what I get out of them , space. If the recording allows for it , they really open up.
    Dan
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  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by WLDock View Post
    WOW! Like I said...these speakers get such mixed feedback. I still want to hear them. Also, I need to hear some of the later Definitive stuff. Man do I remember so well the early/first Definitive. I was at a high end store and they had a full blown set(The mains were the top BP set at the time with the large sub) with a large projection screen. They had some live concert footage on Laserdisc....the large screen and sound stage was blowing my mind. That was the first home theater demo that really caught my attention. I was set on owning a set of Definitives one day......still waiting. LOL.


    Anyway, opinion vary about speakers to such a high degree. I hate that I missed the Audio Expo in Chicago this Spring...I need to get out and hear some stuff. Looks like it will be back next year....I will be there: http://www.axpona.com/
    In general , if you like what Polk has done over the early years up to today , then your most likely going to love Def Tech. They have a lot of that polk sound but more polished. Sandy took all the great things about polk and made them better. They cost a bit more but you can think of them like a modded pair of polks.
    Dan
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  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by mantis View Post
    Yeah I did , got a problem with that? The SDA's are old , they had their time in the light. I feel to many much better sounding to me speakers are to be had. Kinda like having the same thing for dinner night after night.
    Yeah Dan I do because it's always double talk with you. You love SDA's and say they are remarkable, yet say that a current $3k speaker is better.....really!?! You just proved that you have no idea of what you're talking about.
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  16. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by mantis View Post
    In general , if you like what Polk has done over the early years up to today , then your most likely going to love Def Tech. They have a lot of that polk sound but more polished. Sandy took all the great things about polk and made them better. They cost a bit more but you can think of them like a modded pair of polks.
    I have a pair of modded BP30's, TOTL in their day except without the built in sub. I rewired with solid core OFC wire with polyethylene insulation, moved the Xovers outboard and rebuilt with mills/sonicaps/alphacore air core ribbon inductors. This took them to another level making them overall smoother, better defined bass and diminished a slight harshness in the treble. But I still felt I wanted to try something else.

    I acquired my 2.3TL's and performed every mod I can think of (see sig). They image like nothing I've ever heard, and make the BP30's sound small in comparison. Not in terms of volume but in the way they completely fill the room with coherent sound. IOW You can tell where the instrument or vocalist is in the soundstage, but the SDA's also seem to reproduce secondary sounds similar to a live performance. Maybe this is what makes them so special. I hear this quality even when I'm in another room far from the sweet spot, so I'm guessing it's more than the cancellation of interaural crosstalk. Even on mediocre recordings it sounds like the performers are in the room. I don't have them set up properly due to room restrictions, but they're impressive nonetheless.

    I still have the BP30's and may get them hooked up again, but I feel completely satisfied with the big Polk SDA's.
    Last edited by drumminman; 06-25-2013 at 11:12 AM.
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  17. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by mantis View Post
    In general , if you like what Polk has done over the early years up to today , then your most likely going to love Def Tech. They have a lot of that polk sound but more polished. Sandy took all the great things about polk and made them better. They cost a bit more but you can think of them like a modded pair of polks.
    I have a pair of modded BP30's, TOTL in their day except without the built in sub. I rewired with solid core OFC wire with polyethylene insulation, moved the Xovers outboard and rebuilt with mills/sonicaps/alphacore air core ribbon inductors. This took them to another level making them overall smoother, better defined bass and diminished a slight harshness in the treble. But I still felt I wanted to try something else.

    I acquired my 2.3TL's and performed every mod I can think of (see sig). They image like nothing I've ever heard, and make the BP30's sound small in comparison. Even on mediocre recordings it sounds like the performers are in the room. I don't have them set up properly due to room restrictions, but they're impressive nonetheless. They also have a more organic sound, not artificially detailed which I felt the big Def Techs were at times. The big SDA's seem to be able to reproduce the emotion in the music.

    I still have the BP30's and may get them hooked up again, but I feel completely satisfied with the big Polk SDA's.
    Last edited by drumminman; 06-25-2013 at 11:17 AM.
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  18. #78

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    There is a big problem today with speakers..at least in MY opinion. There 95% all tower designs and made to be "Wife Friendly" It's all gee it looks nice, over how really good does it sound. In some cases. the mids' and treble are great..but they all fall flat on the bottom end. Now it's nice to say..gee i've got X amount of 7" woofers or even 8" woofers in some slim line cab, with power ports or whatever. Bottom line is they just will not dig as deep or hit you as hard as an old large sealed cab design with a 12" in it. even a 12" PR.

    I can play a song for you on a set of RTi12's..3 7" bass drivers ported. I can play the same song for you on a set of 30 year old 1C's, and unless your deaf..you can hear them dig deeper and feel the difference. These are only 1C's...to put any older tower up against a set of SRS anything is a complete waste of time.



    IF you look at the new designs..say the DT 8080 ST stuff, that they finally figured out they need something more. That may be another story. With the 12' bass sub, and the 2 12" PR's, now your playing in a different ballpark. They "should" dig deeper and hit you harder then any SRS model.

    What happens after that..I don't know. Soundstage, how "accurate " they are, and on, and on....



    Are they worth the cost of an in home audition (freight cost to send them back)..maybe, but probably should not be discounted.

  19. #79

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    Don't get too hung up on woofer size. You can have an 8" woofer that will dig deeper than a 12", and so on.

    As for soundstage size, I don't know if it's just you're waiting to hear what you want to hear, but no other speaker will have the width of SDA's.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

  20. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    Yeah Dan I do because it's always double talk with you. You love SDA's and say they are remarkable, yet say that a current $3k speaker is better.....really!?! You just proved that you have no idea of what you're talking about.
    Why are you such an emotional old man? You write as if the love one has for a speaker is anything but subjective. Practically everything you've spewed in this thread is an opinion. Can't the technology SDAs possessed 30 years ago be called remarkable, but still not as good as some $3k speakers today. Jeez, my neighbor's model T rebuild is remarkable, but I'll take my '99 Toyota Corolla any day.

    Quit acting like an offended Emotiva owner and accept someone might have a divergent opinion.

    Food for thought > If SDA Tech is so awesome for 2CH, then why is it now exclusively used in cheap HT rigs?

    PS I love my Polk IHT 9000!

  21. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by naturallight View Post
    Bottom line is they just will not dig as deep or hit you as hard as an old large sealed cab design with a 12" in it. even a 12" PR.
    Size matters but that's not the only thing.

    Listen to B&W Concept 90 and that'll change your opinion on ~5" woofers.
    I had an audition at a friend's place and man they sounded amazing.
    Here is a pic: http://img.canuckaudiomart.com/uploa...pt_90_dmc2.jpg

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  22. #82

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    Face, i'm not going to debate driver size with you...LOL There is no real debate about the SDA sound stage. I'm just looking at alternative speakers that may come close to the SDA/SRS..thats all.

    4 months down the road when i have cash in hand and can't find a good set of SRS speakers..at least at the right price (as the ebay people have seemed to NOW go nuts on these speakers and over charge)



    I figure 1500 is about max i can spend on the speakers, as it will take alot of money to ship them..IF they will even consider that. Then i have to spend 1K in upgrades..at min , depending on what shape there really in.



    So looking for a NEW speaker..that is somewhat close to an SRS is not out of the question. To spend 200 bucks on shipping to try out a speaker when it does not work..doesn't float my boat that much.

    But at least i can say i tried them out..does not work, and at that point will probably just rebuild the 1C's.

  23. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by naturallight View Post
    Face, i'm not going to debate driver size with you...LOL There is no real debate about the SDA sound stage. I'm just looking at alternative speakers that may come close to the SDA/SRS..thats all.

    4 months down the road when i have cash in hand and can't find a good set of SRS speakers..at least at the right price (as the ebay people have seemed to NOW go nuts on these speakers and over charge)



    I figure 1500 is about max i can spend on the speakers, as it will take alot of money to ship them..IF they will even consider that. Then i have to spend 1K in upgrades..at min , depending on what shape there really in.



    So looking for a NEW speaker..that is somewhat close to an SRS is not out of the question. To spend 200 bucks on shipping to try out a speaker when it does not work..doesn't float my boat that much.

    But at least i can say i tried them out..does not work, and at that point will probably just rebuild the 1C's.
    When you have the cash in hand to buy, save it until the right set of SRS comes along. They will eventually and are worth the wait. The only other speakers out there that I have heard with the same "gravitas" would be a set of Magnepan 3.6's or a set of Carver Amazing Platinums.
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    In 1988, I extensively auditioned the Carver Amazing Speakers and SRS1.2's in the same room with the same Carver M1.5t amp and the Polk's won, especially in dynamic range and impact. Both speakers were awesome but the Polk's handled the material in stride. The Carver's were "challenged".
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  25. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by SolidSqual View Post
    Why are you such an emotional old man? You write as if the love one has for a speaker is anything but subjective. Practically everything you've spewed in this thread is an opinion. Can't the technology SDAs possessed 30 years ago be called remarkable, but still not as good as some $3k speakers today. Jeez, my neighbor's model T rebuild is remarkable, but I'll take my '99 Toyota Corolla any day.

    Quit acting like an offended Emotiva owner and accept someone might have a divergent opinion.

    Food for thought > If SDA Tech is so awesome for 2CH, then why is it now exclusively used in cheap HT rigs?

    PS I love my Polk IHT 9000!
    Really? I would have expected better from you.
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    Has anyone heard the Goldenear Triton II? Was reading about them and would like to hear them... They have Polk in their bloodline as founder Sandy Gross was a founder with Matt and at DefTech. They get great reviews for what it's worth. I am curious

    http://www.goldenear.com/products/triton-series
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    How about the Golden Ear towers? They have been highly rated amongst audiophiles...

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldmanSRS View Post
    In 1988, I extensively auditioned the Carver Amazing Speakers and SRS1.2's in the same room with the same Carver M1.5t amp and the Polk's won, especially in dynamic range and impact. Both speakers were awesome but the Polk's handled the material in stride. The Carver's were "challenged".
    The Carvers were challenged by trying to overcome a profound lack of power if they were driven by a 1.5t... The reason the Silver 7' tube amps and the solid state versions were created in the first place was to drive the Amazings.
    HT Setup... Pioneer Elite SC-37, Polk Audio SDA-SRS 1.2TL's , Oppo BDP 93
    Two Channel... Carver Statement 450~1 Vacuum Tube Monoblocks, Dodd Mid-line Tube Linestage with Psvane 12Ax7 tubes, Pioneer Pdd 9Mk II SACD Player, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable with Sumiko BPS EvoIII, Polk Audio SDA-SRS 1.2TLs.


    "Everything we have fought for has been lost, and everything we fought against, we have become...."

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    Yeah Dan I do because it's always double talk with you. You love SDA's and say they are remarkable, yet say that a current $3k speaker is better.....really!?! You just proved that you have no idea of what you're talking about.
    So one can't love an old classic but feel newer models are better? Old Corvettes are amazing but I'll take a new one over any of the older models. I don't know what I'm talking about? Really?
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mantis View Post
    So one can't love an old classic but feel newer models are better?
    Bring out the long knives....lol. I don't always agree with you Dan, but you have this one right. SDA'S are no doubt great speakers, especially when redone. Bang for the buck which is why you find them in a lot of systems. They compare favorably to many newer speakers sound wise.

    That said, the speaker world isn't short of choices by any account, new or old. SDA'S are not the be all end all, though for some they very well may be....and that's ok too. Many members here, including myself have moved on from the SDA's or even Polk in general but that in no way diminishes the value of Polk speakers. Every wallet has a sweet spot, and every speaker maker targets various sweet spots in those wallets. Nothing bad about that either. Polk does a damn fine job at what they do and like every speaker maker they have their hits and misses. SDA's were one of the hits, obviously, and 3g's may be at the cusp of bettering them in a new speaker. That alone says a lot. Personally I think 4g's is more the mark but that's just me.

    I guess this whole argument comes down to whats important to you, which obviously will vary among us. SDA's do some things very well, but also lack in some other characteristics others may strive for. Not rocket science here, we all like what we like.

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