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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    Now Mike, you're just going to confuse our new friend even more than he already is.
    Between 'ol McDonald and Shoddy, my sides have been splitting all day.

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by SHOKDU View Post
    . There are much more tactful ways of leading people to better equipment, if that's the goal of things.
    If that's the goal.....which obviously isn't yours.

    I would also suggest "tactful ways" went out the window when you proclaimed Emo as a better product than Krell, Levinson, and Macintosh. Maybe you should explain to us your thoughts on what "better equipment" than emo is then.

    I advised you before to know your audience. Your talking to some seasoned audiophiles here and not doing yourself any favors. B.S. doesn't fly around here as maybe it does on other forums....just saying. Maybe, since you already turned a few knobs the wrong way, hit the reset button and start over. Just a suggestion is all.

  3. #63

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    I believe he has passed the point of reset.
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  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keiko View Post
    LOL! OMG, Mike, you're going to make me bust a stitch! Great pics bro!

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    Why didn't you link the entire thread, afraid folks would see where Emo tried to dupe folks by rebadging their amps and doubling the price. Yeah, great company there....went over like a lead balloon.

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...eed-cheap-amps
    Then there was the Carver Amp that was a re-badged Emotiva, or it was the other way around.
    So hot it burns twice

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Habanero Monk View Post
    Then there was the Carver Amp that was a re-badged Emotiva, or it was the other way around.
    That would have been a Phoenix Gold amp with the Carver name placed on it illegally, that was built by a company named Homni in China. Homni changed their name to Jade Designs, rebadged that Phoenix Gold amp the MPS-1, and Emotiva was born.

    Bottom line is that the audio industry must have been born in the backwoods hills of Kentucky with all the inbreeding going on. It's hard to keep up with who's who and what's what these days.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Monoblocks, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds, Dodd Audio MLP, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Peachtree I-DAC, Oppo BDP-93, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable, with Sumiko BPS EVOIII, Pioneer PDD 9MkII SACD Player, SimAudio moon 110lp phono preamplifier

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    I feel bad for the OP here. :(

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    Quote Originally Posted by nooshinjohn View Post
    That would have been a Phoenix Gold amp with the Carver name placed on it illegally, that was built by a company named Homni in China. Homni changed their name to Jade Designs, rebadged that Phoenix Gold amp the MPS-1, and Emotiva was born.
    Ouch.....LOL
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  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by nooshinjohn View Post
    That would have been a Phoenix Gold amp with the Carver name placed on it illegally, that was built by a company named Homni in China. Homni changed their name to Jade Designs, rebadged that Phoenix Gold amp the MPS-1, and Emotiva was born.

    Bottom line is that the audio industry must have been born in the backwoods hills of Kentucky with all the inbreeding going on. It's hard to keep up with who's who and what's what these days.
    And it's come full circle to Emotiva owning the Carver name... Bizarre to say the least. Funny too because isn't Carvers assembly line based in KY?
    So hot it burns twice

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    don't feel sorry for me I'm entertained as hell.Let me chime in and keep in mind my sons 25 year old ears agree with this.This amp doesn't sound any brighter than my 150wpc dual mono mitsu.Keep in mind not many hours on the emo when he made that observation and The mitsu still in the shop so was just going on memory with material that he and I were very familiar with.good possibility the mitsu was not well but am optimistic it will be when I get it back.Can A/B them at that point and see what happens prolly got over 100 hrs on the emo now and think it sounds nice with my b&w dm7s and 10 A's as well.

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by Habanero Monk View Post
    And it's come full circle to Emotiva owning the Carver name... Bizarre to say the least. Funny too because isn't Carvers assembly line based in KY?

    Again, your reading comprehension is lacking. I've had better conversations with my 3 year old, and I only understand half the words coming out of his mouth.
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  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSkip View Post
    Again, your reading comprehension is lacking. I've had better conversations with my 3 year old, and I only understand half the words coming out of his mouth.
    Actually it's your reading comprehension. The the audio industry (his words). Now if he wants to clarify that is up to him. With all the brands being bought up, or merged, or names going defunct just to be resurrected years later It certainly could be viewed the way he put it. Marantz was a dead label for the longest time for example.

    I'm not sure why Johns description vacillates from his prior post on the matter. Certainly no 'illegalities' were mentioned prior even after he spoke with Mr. Carver.

    Maybe you'll get at me some other way. Keep swinging there champ

    For the OP:

    Why? Sunfire=Carver technology=EMO...

    Who cares, so long as folks enjoy [or not] what they are listening too. I could care less. S happens...


    Damn straight.
    Last edited by Habanero Monk; 08-16-2013 at 09:28 PM.
    So hot it burns twice

  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Habanero Monk View Post
    Actually it's your reading comprehension. The the audio industry (his words). Now if he wants to clarify that is up to him. With all the brands being bought up, or merged, or names going defunct just to be resurrected years later It certainly could be viewed the way he put it. Marantz was a dead label for the longest time for example.

    I'm not sure why Johns description vacillates from his prior post on the matter. Certainly no 'illegalities' were mentioned prior even after he spoke with Mr. Carver.

    Maybe you'll get at me some other way. Keep swinging there champ

    For the OP:

    Why? Sunfire=Carver technology=EMO...

    Who cares, so long as folks enjoy [or not] what they are listening too. I could care less. S happens...


    Damn straight.
    Let me tear this apart...
    1) Sunfire and Emo amps have zero in common with each other. HT Preamps... they shared tech on one of them
    2) Carver amps and Emo...l zero in common through the TFM series. After that, Phoenix gold assumed ownership of the company, and were ordered by the courts to drop the use of the Carver name. They tried to go with a new name, Carver Digital, and were sued by Bob to stop. Bob won, and the name change of the amp I previously discussed took place. When I said "illegal" it means simply that they had no legal basis to use his name and a court put a stop to it.

    The fact is that it costs millions to develop new gear, specifically the HT gear most people buy today, thus it becomes imperative to share the development costs. It also makes it harder to survive if you are a Krell, Pass, Levinson, or even Carver. That is why these brands have been gobbled up buy mass marketers. Each of these brands brings with it a certain level of prestige to the more pedestrian brands, and allows groups like Harman Int. to claim trickle-down tech from the high end brands in their portfolios.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Monoblocks, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds, Dodd Audio MLP, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Peachtree I-DAC, Oppo BDP-93, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable, with Sumiko BPS EVOIII, Pioneer PDD 9MkII SACD Player, SimAudio moon 110lp phono preamplifier

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  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by nooshinjohn View Post
    Let me tear this apart...
    1) Sunfire and Emo amps have zero in common with each other. HT Preamps... they shared tech on one of them
    2) Carver amps and Emo...l zero in common through the TFM series. After that, Phoenix gold assumed ownership of the company, and were ordered by the courts to drop the use of the Carver name. They tried to go with a new name, Carver Digital, and were sued by Bob to stop. Bob won, and the name change of the amp I previously discussed took place. When I said "illegal" it means simply that they had no legal basis to use his name and a court put a stop to it.

    The fact is that it costs millions to develop new gear, specifically the HT gear most people buy today, thus it becomes imperative to share the development costs. It also makes it harder to survive if you are a Krell, Pass, Levinson, or even Carver. That is why these brands have been gobbled up buy mass marketers. Each of these brands brings with it a certain level of prestige to the more pedestrian brands, and allows groups like Harman Int. to claim trickle-down tech from the high end brands in their portfolios.
    Careful here John...I I have spoken to emo recently and personally spoke to a technician that helped design my 425 sig. They have much in common when you pop the hood.
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  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by SDA1C View Post
    Careful here John...I I have spoken to emo recently and personally spoke to a technician that helped design my 425 sig. They have much in common when you pop the hood.
    At the time Sunfire was coming out, Emo was using individual soundcards for each channel, while the Sunfire had a single massive toroidial transformer. Two very different designs. It is likely and even possible that later versions of the Sunfire were built by Jade to Sunfire spec, as Bob was getting into outsourcing as a way to lower production cost. It is possible that such an arrangement would have allowed Jade to borrow from Sunfire or even copy them. This change could have happened around the time Sherbourn, Emo and Sunfire developed their HT Preamps together.

    My friends from Sunfire tell me that this would have happened with the TGA 7 series amps and not before. They are very nearly the same amp as the Sigs were. Now that Sunfire is no longer producing amplifiers of their own, it is a rather mute point.
    Last edited by nooshinjohn; 08-16-2013 at 10:45 PM.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Monoblocks, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds, Dodd Audio MLP, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Peachtree I-DAC, Oppo BDP-93, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable, with Sumiko BPS EVOIII, Pioneer PDD 9MkII SACD Player, SimAudio moon 110lp phono preamplifier

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  16. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by nooshinjohn View Post
    Let me tear this apart...
    1) Sunfire and Emo amps have zero in common with each other. HT Preamps... they shared tech on one of them
    2) Carver amps and Emo...l zero in common through the TFM series. After that, Phoenix gold assumed ownership of the company, and were ordered by the courts to drop the use of the Carver name. They tried to go with a new name, Carver Digital, and were sued by Bob to stop. Bob won, and the name change of the amp I previously discussed took place. When I said "illegal" it means simply that they had no legal basis to use his name and a court put a stop to it.
    Thanks for the Clarification. I couldn't find what you posted elsewhere. I think we are in agreement that the Audio Industry is certainly seeming crossbred in some respects.

    Quote Originally Posted by nooshinjohn View Post
    The fact is that it costs millions to develop new gear, specifically the HT gear most people buy today, thus it becomes imperative to share the development costs. It also makes it harder to survive if you are a Krell, Pass, Levinson, or even Carver. That is why these brands have been gobbled up buy mass marketers. Each of these brands brings with it a certain level of prestige to the more pedestrian brands, and allows groups like Harman Int. to claim trickle-down tech from the high end brands in their portfolios.
    Agreed where it's becoming the domain of fewer and fewer as the HT surround formats go higher and higher end. It's why Emotiva still doesn't have their XMC-1 out and if it ever sees light of day I pity the customers *cough*beta-testers*cough* that purchase it.
    So hot it burns twice

  17. #77

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    I know you are right John just want to be clear on their similarities with all the emo slinging as of late. It seems hard to justify overlooking or degrading emo and lifting sunfire when they are so similar in many regards.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDA1C View Post
    I know you are right John just want to be clear on their similarities with all the emo slinging as of late. It seems hard to justify overlooking or degrading emo and lifting sunfire when they are so similar in many regards.
    That may be very true today, but 15 years ago, the was not the case and when the Sigs were designed, there was no collaboration. I don't know who designs Emo gear, but a smart businessman would do well to hire the guy that designed them.

    If anything, it can be demonstrated that Emo's success is in that they were able to use much of Carver's tech as a nucleus to grow from, and whereas Bob hates running a business, Mr. Laufman seems to revel in it.
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  19. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by nooshinjohn View Post
    That may be very true today, but 15 years ago, the was not the case. If anything, it can be demonstrated that Emo's success is in that they were able to use much of Carver's tech as a nucleus to grow from, and whereas Bob hates running a business, Mr. Laufman seems to revel in it.
    Bob likes designing, Dan likes marketing and distribution. Could be a good match up for us unwashed masses
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  20. #80

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    Are youse guys saying my Sunfire TGA-5400 amp is an Emo?

  21. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by SHOKDU View Post
    Oh, and the only reason that the Airmotiv6's went back to Emotiva twice was because I had bought remanufactured speakers to begin with during the warehouse sale. The failure was most likely due to a long, bumpy ride to Alaska. The first time was because one of the drivers had completely ripped itself from the enclosure, and the second time was because the box got dropped hard enough that a board inside the speaker cracked. Both fault of FedEx handlers. Emotiva graciously fixed the issue both times, and I now have fantastic speakers in my office that have lasted for me and only cost me $300.
    I see you went back to edit your original post from about 3 months ago to reflect your current claim. Too funny!

    Post by shokdu on May 23, 2013 at 11:55pm
    I wanted another pair of Airmotiv 6's, but the last set I bought during the last whse sale was $240 cheaper than I was quoted this time around. Not even worth buying the remans at the quoted price if you ask me, better to buy new as my last pair of remans had to go back to Emo twice, both times ultimately due to the FedEx employees treating my gear as rag toys.
    Last Edit: Aug 13, 2013 at 8:00pm by shokdu: clarification of failure
    So, explain how buying new speakers would change anything? I'm dying to hear this one.
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  22. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Are youse guys saying my Sunfire TGA-5400 amp is an Emo?
    LMAO...
    No, but Jade may have built it for Sunfire by the time it was constructed. The TGA's were largely built in China, though some final assembly was done in Snohomish.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Monoblocks, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds, Dodd Audio MLP, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Peachtree I-DAC, Oppo BDP-93, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable, with Sumiko BPS EVOIII, Pioneer PDD 9MkII SACD Player, SimAudio moon 110lp phono preamplifier

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  23. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    I see you went back to edit your original post from about 3 months ago to reflect your current claim. Too funny!



    So, explain how buying new speakers would change anything? I'm dying to hear this one.

    Somehow I can picture him slamming away at his keyboard editing posts all over the web in a vain effort to stump Polk's own Detective Columbo..
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Monoblocks, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds, Dodd Audio MLP, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Peachtree I-DAC, Oppo BDP-93, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable, with Sumiko BPS EVOIII, Pioneer PDD 9MkII SACD Player, SimAudio moon 110lp phono preamplifier

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    Quote Originally Posted by nooshinjohn View Post
    LMAO...
    No, but Jade may have built it for Sunfire by the time it was constructed. The TGA's were largely built in China, though some final assembly was done in Snohomish.
    Okay. I'm not quite sure when I bought it, but it is probably pushing 10 years now.

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    Name:  Emo-B00bs.jpg
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    Cool buy.
    I like that its all black.
    I have been looking at that amp too. I like that it can be turned into a Mono block AMP.
    Good to hear that it sounds good on B&Ws.
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