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  1. #31

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    Just cosmetic manufacturing imperfections. "Electronically perfect". They are not all 50% off some more some less. Classic Audio Parts is ATI. Same address and phone number on their respective websites. Just give them a call or email. You will probably speak with Jeff Hipps he is their sales guy, he will be answer any questions you have about "b-stock" items. (323) 278-0001
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  2. #32

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    Now, if you want to, and especially if you have several large amplifiers in the system, you should consider running a dedicated 20 amp feed, but the reality is that it is not really necessary for most humans.
    He doesn't seem to understand the purpose of having a dedicated line.
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  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    He doesn't seem to understand the purpose of having a dedicated line.
    Care to shed some light on it.. i am more than interested to know

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sumerian View Post
    You guys are the best! Just curious and please dont take me wrong why is that "b-stock" ATI 1805" 50% off generally B stock are only 15 to 20% off ... Are these damaged peices which are fixed?
    Consider it a good time to get 50% off of audio equipment...hint...hint...LSiM F&F! Remember they are internet direct!
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  5. #35

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    A dedicated line results in a lower noise floor since the circuit is not shared with God knows what. A 20 amp line requires that at a minimum, 12/2 wire must be used. The larger gauge means a better current flow, this results in improved dynamics along with an overall improvement in sound quality. 10/2 wire is even better.

    A dedicated line is basic Audio 101. Even a lowly AVR based HT rig will benefit greatly from a dedicated 20 amp line. The TV picture will improve as well.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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  6. #36

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    As I've said several times before, we use the 20 amp style connector because we must pass
    CE testing and the 15 amp style is not adequate for the currents that can be drawn during compliance testing. The use of the plug adapters is completely safe in a house with normal wiring.
    This should be addressed as well. The NEC dictates certain requirements for house power. A 15 amp/1800 watt line can support no more than 80% of it's rating, which would be 12 amp/1440 watt. I could not find the max rated draw of that amp, but if the CE says it needs a 20 amp power cord the max draw must be more than 12 amp/1440 watt. Granted, one is unlikely to draw the max under normal use and if one did it would likely trip the breaker first, but suggesting the use of a plug adapter and that it's safe is an opening for a lawsuit. Not to mention it's choking the crap out of the amp.

    My amp is rated for a max draw of 1950 watts. I could and have run it off a dedicated 20 amp/2400 watt (80%=1920 watt) 12/2 line, but decided I really needed a 30 amp/3600 watt (80%=2880 watt) 10/2 line. The sonic improvement was not subtle.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    Here's a few good choices culled from the used market in your price range.

    Rotel RMB-1095 - 200wpc x 5

    Aragon 3005 - 300wpc x 5

    Anthem Statement A5 - 225wpc x 5

    B&K 200.7 - 200wpc x 7

    So i completed reading about all of them would love to get a B&K 200.7 but if i can find any of these at decent price i will be happy camper...

  8. #38

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    Outlaw amps are really good for the money. Made by ATI. Their 7700 is essentially the ATI 2007 with a better looking faceplate. Just another one to consider. I am thinking the B&K 200.7 is the same amp as the ATI & Outlaw also. But I don't know for sure.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremymarcinko View Post
    Outlaw amps are really good for the money. Made by ATI. Their 7700 is essentially the ATI 2007 with a better looking faceplate. Just another one to consider. I am thinking the B&K 200.7 is the same amp as the ATI & Outlaw also. But I don't know for sure.
    I will be honest with you looks matter a lot for me but if ATI manufactures the Outlaw and if ATI is regarded in Audiophile community then why people tend to compare/equal it with Emotiva ?

    I know Emotiva is considered second grade here or not considered at all.

  10. #40

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    Does any of the suggested amps in this thread more suitable for music than HT?

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by cfrizz View Post
    There is no such thing as overkill when it comes to power. You have the right idea, the more power you have the better the speakers will run to their full potential that a receiver or a lower power amp won't be able to provide.I always recommend getting at least a 200 wpc amp, if you can afford more, buy more. this much power allows just about any speaker to operate to their full potential, and it has very little to do with volume. You get better bass, better clarity in vocals, instruments, separation etc. There are no hard rules in this hobby and you are only limited in what you can/want to spend and what sounds good to you. Go for it!

    Yeah, this.
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  12. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    Here's a few good choices culled from the used market in your price range.

    Rotel RMB-1095 - 200wpc x 5

    Aragon 3005 - 300wpc x 5

    Anthem Statement A5 - 225wpc x 5

    B&K 200.7 - 200wpc x 7

    Yeah, for music....these. I would throw Parasound in there too with B&k being my preference.

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb View Post
    Yeah, for music....these. I would throw Parasound in there too with B&k being my preference.
    are B&K manufactured by ATI?

  14. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sumerian View Post
    are B&K manufactured by ATI?
    Yes, owned and manufactured.
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  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremymarcinko View Post
    Yes, owned and manufactured.
    Ok in that case how much the Outlaw and B&K vary in terms of SQ?

    hope i dont get flamed by polkies for that question.

    the reason i ask that question, it is easy to buy outlaw.

  16. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sumerian View Post
    are B&K manufactured by ATI?
    IIRC, B&K was its own company, ran into hard times and was bought out by ATI a few years back.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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  17. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    IIRC, B&K was its own company, ran into hard times and was bought out by ATI a few years back.

    OK what is your take on Outlaw?

  18. #48

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    To be clear, Outlaw isn't owned by ATI, but manufactured by them. B&K was acquired by ATI and they are in the process of moving the production of B&K's to their California facility. B&K brand carries more prestige and beauty, Outlaw can be purchased cheaper as they are an online direct company. And ATI is the household brand that isn't really marketed but sold thru custom installers. All of these amps have tremendous build quality and exceptional sound quality. I would give the upper hand to the B&K, if only for the brand notoriety resale is always something to consider. And as you have said you have never heard of ATI neither have I until a few months ago. There niche is amplifier manufacturing for many mid to high-end brands.
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  19. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremymarcinko View Post
    To be clear, Outlaw isn't owned by ATI, but manufactured by them. B&K was acquired by ATI and they are in the process of moving the production of B&K's to their California facility. B&K brand carries more prestige and beauty, Outlaw can be purchased cheaper as they are an online direct company. And ATI is the household brand that isn't really marketed but sold thru custom installers. All of these amps have tremendous build quality and exceptional sound quality. I would give the upper hand to the B&K, if only for the brand notoriety resale is always something to consider. And as you have said you have never heard of ATI neither have I until a few months ago. There niche is amplifier manufacturing for many mid to high-end brands.

    Wow! You have some patience mate, very unlikely on internet forums.

    Thanks for advocating ATI hope i will zero down on the amplifier by Monday morning.

  20. #50

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    I'm only advocating by default, I just happened to stumble on one of their stereo amps on craigslist and was pretty impressed. So I had just recently researched their company and brands. I am sure your Lsim's will sound amazing on anything.
    Enjoy!!
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  21. #51

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    Yes b&k was bought by ATI, but any amps as of now with the B&k label will have been there own. Going forward, anything new with the label will most likely be a joint effort. On the used market, B&K amps are a steal for what you get sound wise, musical, a tad on the warm side of neutral, and enough power to keep you happy for a long time.

  22. #52

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    Thanks for that info folks....

    Damn the the used amplifier market is very tough... will keep hunting.

  23. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sumerian View Post
    Thanks a lot for all the replies guys, greatly appreciate your time.

    After reading on quite a bit on forums i have shortlisted Emotiva XPR-5 for now, i know its not well regarded brand here but the fact that i can try it and return it if dont like really sold me for now.


    Just waiting for labour day weekend sales.
    I couldn't post immediately after seeing this post, but this is one of the best trolling set-ups I have ever seen, across any internet forum. It was absolutely perfect in its construction and delivery - the solicitation and pay off pitch was just amazing.

    Will definitely take a page from this and try it elsewhere.
    Do you hear that buzzing noise?

  24. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Jam View Post
    I couldn't post immediately after seeing this post, but this is one of the best trolling set-ups I have ever seen, across any internet forum. It was absolutely perfect in its construction and delivery - the solicitation and pay off pitch was just amazing.

    Will definitely take a page from this and try it elsewhere.

    Sorry didnt get you ?
    care to explain what you mean by that?

  25. #55

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    Sumer, some of Sonance's bigger amps are also rebadged ATI amps. You might consider those as well if you're going that route. Post back if you find one and need confirmation on whether they are ATI designs or not.
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  26. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sumerian View Post
    OK what is your take on Outlaw?
    Never heard one, so I can't offer an opinion on the sound quality.

    That said, they were one of the first to go Internet only sales and at the time generated a lot of buzz like Emotiva does now for being a "bang for the buck" entry level amp. That buzz has faded in favor of the new flavor on the month.
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  27. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSkip View Post
    Sumer, some of Sonance's bigger amps are also rebadged ATI amps. You might consider those as well if you're going that route. Post back if you find one and need confirmation on whether they are ATI designs or not.
    Found Craigslist listing on B&K sent a email hopefully the seller responds back.

  28. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    A dedicated line results in a lower noise floor since the circuit is not shared with God knows what. A 20 amp line requires that at a minimum, 12/2 wire must be used. The larger gauge means a better current flow, this results in improved dynamics along with an overall improvement in sound quality. 10/2 wire is even better.

    A dedicated line is basic Audio 101. Even a lowly AVR based HT rig will benefit greatly from a dedicated 20 amp line. The TV picture will improve as well.
    Wouldn't it be cheaper just to get a decent power conditioner, or can they not filter out the noise adequately? Also from what I read on power cords 12 gauge is overkill.

  29. #59

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    Wouldn't it be cheaper just to get a decent power conditioner, or can they not filter out the noise adequately?
    Good question. Depending on the power conditioner, it may be more expensive. Speaking from personal experience, the improvement from using a very decent power conditioner did not come close to the improvement resulting from a dedicated line.

    Also from what I read on power cords 12 gauge is overkill.
    Someone didn't know what they were talking about. Besides, gauge should not be the only criteria used for power cords, speaker cables, etc. The material, configuration, shielding and dielectric are more important.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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  30. #60

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    Jesse, how much did it cost for you to get the dedicated line? I'm on the fence about that one because my system is in our 4th bedroom and I'm scared of potential costs and it having no point if we end up needing to repurpose that room down the road.
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Essence Audio HDACC, Douglas IC's, Douglas Alpha bi-wire SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

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