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  1. #1

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    Default Jim Salk gives Emotiva as an amp recommendation

    There's a nice article in the latest TAS magazine about how the Freid speaker company went to Jim Salk for the R&D of a speaker they wanted developed. It turned out to be a very successful project. When asked what amps he recommended Jim gave the Emotiva XPA-2, several of Frank Van Alstine's designs and the BAT VK600 as great choices. The author of the article also included the Lamm Audio M1.2 reference monoblocks & the PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium int. amp operated in triode mode w/ a pair of KR120. Interesting that Jim includes the Emo as one of his choices in the same company of the other fine amps. He must know something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pearsall001 View Post
    There's a nice article in the latest TAS magazine about how the Freid speaker company went to Jim Salk for the R&D of a speaker they wanted developed. It turned out to be a very successful project. When asked what amps he recommended Jim gave the Emotiva XPA-2, several of Frank Van Alstine's designs and the BAT VK600 as great choices. The author of the article also included the Lamm Audio M1.2 reference monoblocks & the PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium int. amp operated in triode mode w/ a pair of KR120. Interesting that Jim includes the Emo as one of his choices in the same company of the other fine amps. He must know something.
    Could be, also could be he was providing amps at different price points so as to give folks options to meet their budget needs. That and if its for the speaker manufacture to test with, lots of folks have Emotiva gear, or gear in that price point, so seeing how their speakers sounded on High end amps and entry level would be something they want to test IMHO. Not arguing one way or the other.
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    Salk's speakers are awesome, btw.
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    Quote Originally Posted by falconcry72 View Post
    Salk's speakers are awesome, btw.
    I am well aware :). I was going to go with some of his speakers for my HT until I got my LSi's at bargain prices. I love that they come with a birth certificate and all the cool stuff they do custom wise.
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    It sounds like a recommendation of some sort for the Emotiva but in reality, but I think it makes little sense how important the amp matters in a good 2 channel setup.

    Emotiva is still a boat anchor to me no matter who recommends it. No bashing intended but merely stating my own opinions when it comes to that brand.

    Jim Salk makes awesome speakers and have my respect for his products. But it doesn't mean he earns my respect for his taste in electronics.
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasat16 View Post
    Jim Salk builds awesome speakers and have my respect for his products. But it doesn't mean he earns my respect for his taste in electronics.
    Fixed. The people who design his crossovers are very talented designers. I'm not sure if Jim has gotten to that stage himself yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Face View Post
    Fixed. The people who design his crossovers are very talented designers. I'm not sure if Jim has gotten to that stage himself yet.
    I think Jim did the cabinet & when that was finished the crossover design was turned over to Dennis Murphy. As we all know he's pretty good at what he does.

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    They're both excellent at what they do.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Quote Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
    Could be, also could be he was providing amps at different price points so as to give folks options to meet their budget needs.

    This ^^^^

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    Quote Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
    Could be, also could be he was providing amps at different price points so as to give folks options to meet their budget needs. That and if its for the speaker manufacture to test with, lots of folks have Emotiva gear, or gear in that price point, so seeing how their speakers sounded on High end amps and entry level would be something they want to test IMHO. Not arguing one way or the other.
    Could also mean he has a hearing problem. He certainly wouldn't be the first one in the audio business with a tin ear.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nooshinjohn View Post
    Could also mean he has a hearing problem. He certainly wouldn't be the first one in the audio business with a tin ear.
    You could always ask directly ask Jim or Dennis if they have a tin ear. They are around.

    I'll take a brilliant speaker designer over a brilliant amp designer any day of the week.
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    I would venture to say that Jim has an excellent ear when it comes to evaluating sound. Maybe in a polite way he's saying to not waste your money on those pricey pieces.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Habanero Monk View Post
    I'll take a brilliant speaker designer over a brilliant amp designer any day of the week.
    It's much easier to design a high quality speaker than a high quality amp.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Quote Originally Posted by Face View Post
    It's much easier to design a high quality speaker than a high quality amp.
    Amps are far more commodity parts than speaker assemblies. We will have to agree to disagree on this one Mike.

    There are very competent amps that for $400 can drive a $30K set of speakers just fine. It doesn't work the other way around as ROI is concerned.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habanero Monk View Post
    There are very competent amps that for $400 can drive a $30K set of speakers just fine. It doesn't work the other way around as ROI is concerned.
    Value of an item does not determine how well it was designed. I don't know which side of the fence I stand on, but your logic makes no sense in the discussion. Actually, I think I agree with Face here. As long as you know the important measurements needed for each component, build it around those numbers and use a bit of common audio sense, you're going to get at least a decent speaker. Building an amp from scratch takes much more knowledge to accomplish audio nirvana. You don't have to be an EE to build a speaker...

    I'd be willing to bet that a person could get a crash course on speaker building in an 8 hour day and be able to build a competent speaker. I can't say the same for an amp.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habanero Monk View Post
    Amps are far more commodity parts than speaker assemblies
    At the Emo level I think this is true,when you get to to the big leagues amps are hardly a commodity item.

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    Quote Originally Posted by falconcry72 View Post
    Salk's speakers are awesome, btw.
    He developed a good vaccine years ago, too.
    So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Face View Post
    It's much easier to design a high quality speaker than a high quality amp.
    Especially in the Class D arena. Plenty of new & exciting things there. As far as Class A, A/B go it's the same old same old as 40yrs ago. Nothing new but man oh man can one get fleeced with some of their prices. But they sure are purdy.

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    Just for clarification Amps tend (even Class D will do this) to enter into a commodity parts phase rather quickly. Pearlsall made the point I was going to make: A, A/B, H are all well trodden designs. The parts that make up a lot of amp products are off the self.

    While with Polk, KEF, Paradigm, PSB and countless others etc they all have drivers that are custom to their design requirements. Not saying it doesn't happen with amps but there are plenty of solid A/B, tubed amps based on topologies that have been around awhile.
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    So basically it all boils down to how much you think the name is worth and if/what you are willing to pay if you think that name is worth it based on rep and word of mouth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSkip View Post
    Value of an item does not determine how well it was designed. I don't know which side of the fence I stand on, but your logic makes no sense in the discussion. Actually, I think I agree with Face here. As long as you know the important measurements needed for each component, build it around those numbers and use a bit of common audio sense, you're going to get at least a decent speaker. Building an amp from scratch takes much more knowledge to accomplish audio nirvana. You don't have to be an EE to build a speaker...

    I'd be willing to bet that a person could get a crash course on speaker building in an 8 hour day and be able to build a competent speaker. I can't say the same for an amp.
    You can get full blown schematics for building a solid A/B amp. There isn't a real reason to do so. I'm not equating cost to competency of design. Harmans DriveCore technology is a prime example of a high end engineering feat making into rather plebeian priced product with good sonic results.

    Bottom line is I'll take an XPA-2 ($899) and some SoundScape 8's over LSiM 705's and $5-6K of whomever amp. Because I doubt Salk and Murphy have 'tin' ears.
    Last edited by Habanero Monk; 08-23-2013 at 09:00 PM.
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  22. #22

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    You're REALLY over-generalizing...to the point it looks like you have no idea what you're talking about.
    Quote Originally Posted by cfrizz View Post
    So basically it all boils down to how much you think the name is worth and if/what you are willing to pay if you think that name is worth it based on rep and word of mouth.
    Not always.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habanero Monk View Post
    Just for clarification Amps tend (even Class D will do this) to enter into a commodity parts phase rather quickly. Pearlsall made the point I was going to make: A, A/B, H are all well trodden designs. The parts that make up a lot of amp products are off the self.

    While with Polk, KEF, Paradigm, PSB and countless others etc they all have drivers that are custom to their design requirements. Not saying it doesn't happen with amps but there are plenty of solid A/B, tubed amps based on topologies that have been around awhile.
    That's really unfortunate that you didn't look far enough to see that the commodity parts are not used in all amps. It may be true in the cases like Emotiva and many other brands. But not every one uses them. In the case of high quality amps, even resistors are hand picked and hand selected. A Large batch of transistors are usually ordered direct from manufacturer to meet tighter specs to cover the entire production runs for a specific model and for the future repairs. Of course, you can find some parts to be very generic off the shelf stuff like screws and wires but not in very important electronics components.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Face View Post
    You're REALLY over-generalizing...to the point it looks like you have no idea what you're talking about. Not always.
    Remember this is all rooted in the post about Jim Salk (and by extension, IMO, Dennis Murphy) having tin ears. Strictly speaking since it was Nooshin's post: I'll take Salk/Murphy over Bob Carver.

    I'll sign up an account over at PETT if you want to carry it on over there with out so much shouting down that is inevitable here. Let me know. You're welcome to point out any errors.
    Last edited by Habanero Monk; 08-23-2013 at 09:19 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasat16 View Post
    That's really unfortunate that you didn't look far enough to see that the commodity parts are not used in all amps. It may be true in the cases like Emotiva and many other brands. But not every one uses them. In the case of high quality amps, even resistors are hand picked and hand selected. A Large batch of transistors are usually ordered direct from manufacturer to meet tighter specs to cover the entire production runs for a specific model and for the future repairs. Of course, you can find some parts to be very generic off the shelf stuff like screws and wires but not in very important electronics components.
    Didn't say that off the self parts aren't tolerance matched. They are still off the shelf. Many firms (ones supplying transistors as example) offer for slight premiums, bulk ordered, close tolerance parts.

    I know both Peavey and Crown have custom parts also. JD Bennett designed a super capacitor for the IPR and and I believe it's in some Crest products also. DriveCore is in JBL, Crown, Lexicon.

    The question begs: Is an IC combining 400-500 parts running at 1.4v better than 400-500 parts running at much higher voltages that are tolerance matched?
    Last edited by Habanero Monk; 08-23-2013 at 09:26 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Face View Post
    Fixed. The people who design his crossovers are very talented designers. I'm not sure if Jim has gotten to that stage himself yet.
    I did not know that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Habanero Monk View Post
    There are very competent amps that for $400 can drive a $30K set of speakers just fine. It doesn't work the other way around as ROI is concerned.
    You don't need to spend money to be happy with your stereo system. But again, you would never drive a 30K speaker with the $400 amp or $900 Emotiva. It's wrong wrong. I am not being facetious or elitist. Just saying this won't happen. No $30K speaker owners will do such a thing.
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by megasat16 View Post
    That's really unfortunate that you didn't look far enough to see that the commodity parts are not used in all amps. It may be true in the cases like Emotiva and many other brands. But not every one uses them. In the case of high quality amps, even resistors are hand picked and hand selected. A Large batch of transistors are usually ordered direct from manufacturer to meet tighter specs to cover the entire production runs for a specific model and for the future repairs. Of course, you can find some parts to be very generic off the shelf stuff like screws and wires but not in very important electronics components.
    Thanks for going into more detail on the amp perspective.

    Hopefully Carotiva's new amps combine the best of both brands to produce something that actually sounds good and has a good soundstage.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Quote Originally Posted by megasat16 View Post
    I did not know that.
    Dennis has his own company: Phillharmonic Audio

    Quote Originally Posted by megasat16 View Post
    You don't need to spend money to be happy with your stereo system. But again, you would never drive a 30K speaker with the $400 amp or $900 Emotiva. It's wrong wrong. I am not being facetious or elitist. Just saying this won't happen. No $30K speaker owners will do such a thing.
    You may be right, you may not be about what people drive their speakers with. I don't agree with your 'wrong wrong'. I'm willing to bet there are some Revel Salon/Salon2 or KEF's in the 20-30K range being driven with an XPA-2. And there is nothing stopping a well received XLS1500 from driving it either.
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    Someone spending $20-30K on speakers is not going to put up with fan noise.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Quote Originally Posted by Habanero Monk View Post
    Remember this is all rooted in the post about Jim Salk (and by extension, IMO, Dennis Murphy) having tin ears. Strictly speaking since it was Nooshin's post: I'll take Salk/Murphy over Bob Carver.

    I'll sign up an account over at PETT if you want to carry it on over there with out so much shouting down that is inevitable here. Let me know. You're welcome to point out any errors.
    Sure, you and John can battle that out over there, I never stated such a thing.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

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