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  1. #301

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    Quote Originally Posted by Face View Post
    If you can get your hands on a pair of OEM RAAL tweeters, they're worth every penny. More so if you're working with a small mid and have a highish crossover point, but can be used low too, but not for the faint of heart.
    Who should I start talking to get a pair of OEM RAAL? :D
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone.

  2. #302

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    Had a chance to speak with Jim Salk today. Really great guy. I asked him about his amp recommendations as related to the article:

    Likes all three. Think's BAT is best suited to overly analytical / forward speakers due to it's rolled off top end. He uses the XPA-2 for both his personal use and demonstrating his line up.

    He says when customers come in and start talking up the electronics roulette that they are better off just enjoying the music as the speakers are where the SQ comes from predominantly. Basically nothing to worry over when it comes to differences in the three.
    So hot it burns twice

  3. #303

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    + 1 to Jim Salk being a good guy. I was there mid November picking up my SoundScape 8's and the wife and I got a tour of the facility. One of the highlights was the veneer vault!

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...ve-been-Salked

    My speakers were packed so he demo'd a pair of SS8's for me. There is no showroom, just a large open area filled with his speaker offerings that doubles as an office. He was using the Emo amp with a Van Alstine preamp and an Auralic Vega DAC. It sounded great. Better than great, fantastic. Not to say it couldn't sound better, but I could live with that sound. He also said the amp is inexpensive and reliable. (They don't always shut down gear when swapping speaker cables).

    Now the other day another SS8 owner posted reply # 20 in his thread:

    http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=120311.20

    "I'm powering them with an Emotiva xpa-2 (300w/ch). I've found that at louder volumes, I will start to overheat the amp. I love the tight bass and response of the SS8's but I grew tired of having to give the amp a break. Now I'm crossing them over at 80Hz and sending the rest to the subs. "

    The SS8's are spec'd at nominal 4 Ohm, 87dB sensitivity. Now I don't know if his amp has a problem, his speakers have a problem, his pre has an issue, source has an issue, or how loud and how long he had it loud, but I'd want to know more before buying one and using it on my Salks.

    So far the Sanders ESL amp I tried (700WPC @ 4Ω, stable to 1/3 Ohm) and the Wyred SX-1000 mono blocks (1,140W at 4Ω) I am currently using have performed without any issues no matter how loud I play them. But they do cost a lot more.
    Last edited by SCompRacer; 12-14-2013 at 10:25 PM.
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  4. #304

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    Your W4S monos are 2ohm stable too. Maybe the Salk's impedance curve dips too low for the Emu?
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

  5. #305

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    Not sure Mike. If I were having an issue I might ask...;) but it would be good to know. I know of one instance where an SACD player sent unwanted frequencies that you couldn't hear or the speaker was unable to play cause an amp to get hot, so that's why I mentioned source. Some oscillation issue.

    I should have the Class A Krell amp early January. The fellow that loaned me the Wyred's said I could hang on to them until then. IF I get blown away, the Krell will stay. If not, these cool running and low cost to operate SX-1000's will stay.
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

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  6. #306

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    how much do these SS8's go for normally?
    I'm in the process of thinking where and what I can upgrade now , maybe my TT or different speakers?
    I even thinking of a VPI Scout 1.1 or 2.0 I know I might hear something on this..lol
    Rogue Audio 99 Magnum/McCormack DNA 500 and 250,McCormack LD-2 pre,Polk SDA SRS 3.1TL's, Paradigm Studio 100's ,Pro-Ject Xtension 10 TT/Technics SL-1200Mk2,Ortofon Cadenza Red/MIT Speaker cables,Alpha Core Python Speaker cables,MIT interconnects,Van Den Hul interconnects /Yamaha RX-A2000

  7. #307

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    My votes for speakers......the worlds your oyster for musical speakers.

  8. #308

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    Quote Originally Posted by Habanero Monk View Post
    He says when customers come in and start talking up the electronics roulette that they are better off just enjoying the music as the speakers are where the SQ comes from predominantly.
    That statement is a mixed bag of right and wrong. A good speaker design is critical to ensure the delivery of the natural sound but it's not the predominant factor. It is a part of the very important aspect of music reproduction in the chain. Every other piece in the chain influence the final sound coming from the speaker and if the speaker are $HITTY, you won't hear what you suppose to hear.

    If you think the tip of the mouth (the lips) are the most critical part in how you sound, think again. I am sure the vocal cords, the tongue, the cheeks, the teeth and the Adam's apple all influence the tone of the voice.

    Remember, a good speaker can make or break your system. And a revealing speaker should be able to discern the difference in electronics used in the chain. If the speakers can't differentiate the el cheapo electronics from the better made ones, there is something wrong with that speaker!
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone.

  9. #309

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    Well said ^^^

  10. #310

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    I also think that Salk's preamp choice is illustrative of the electronics chosen. Garden variety and proud of it!

    Why leave quality on the table ignored and lost at every listen?

    CJ
    As seen on the AVS forum... "Radio Shack zip cord kicks butt."

  11. #311

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jhayman View Post
    how much do these SS8's go for normally?
    SS8's start at $7,999. Plenty of options to make the price go up, like with veneer, cap upgrades. The xovers do have high quality parts to start with. Mine are in black limba and Jim said that added a few hundred. With real exotic wood you can push into four digits. I snagged a year old pair with a veneer I really liked at the Salk 'available now' circle (at Audio Circle) for less than new. And they are in perfect condition. Jim devoted a forum for available now speakers and will list his customers used speakers for sale. Used Salks hold their value well though.

    Lots of folks in the Van Alstine camp and very happy to be there. ;) He is a no frills guy.


    Last edited by SCompRacer; 12-15-2013 at 07:03 PM.
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  12. #312

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    Quote Originally Posted by megasat16 View Post
    Remember, a good speaker can make or break your system. And a revealing speaker should be able to discern the difference in electronics used in the chain. If the speakers can't differentiate the el cheapo electronics from the better made ones, there is something wrong with that speaker!
    My take on my conversation with him is there are quality electronics at relative plebeian price points. I'm sure you aren't saying there is anything wrong with his speakers. Are you saying that Mr Salk is incorrect or that his speakers aren't up to snuff?
    So hot it burns twice

  13. #313

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    Quote Originally Posted by megasat16 View Post
    That statement is a mixed bag of right and wrong. A good speaker design is critical to ensure the delivery of the natural sound but it's not the predominant factor. It is a part of the very important aspect of music reproduction in the chain. Every other piece in the chain influence the final sound coming from the speaker and if the speaker are $HITTY, you won't hear what you suppose to hear.

    If you think the tip of the mouth (the lips) are the most critical part in how you sound, think again. I am sure the vocal cords, the tongue, the cheeks, the teeth and the Adam's apple all influence the tone of the voice.

    Remember, a good speaker can make or break your system. And a revealing speaker should be able to discern the difference in electronics used in the chain. If the speakers can't differentiate the el cheapo electronics from the better made ones, there is something wrong with that speaker!
    Man... If my speakers can sound awesome with el cheapo electronics, i'd think i had hit the jackpot!
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  14. #314

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    Quote Originally Posted by Habanero Monk View Post
    My take on my conversation with him is there are quality electronics at relative plebeian price points. I'm sure you aren't saying there is anything wrong with his speakers. Are you saying that Mr Salk is incorrect or that his speakers aren't up to snuff?
    No...I don't believe he is. Just a general statement is all.

  15. #315

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    Quote Originally Posted by Habanero Monk View Post
    My take on my conversation with him is there are quality electronics at relative plebeian price points. I'm sure you aren't saying there is anything wrong with his speakers. Are you saying that Mr Salk is incorrect or that his speakers aren't up to snuff?
    I will rehash a previous post I made (Post #5) in this thread. I don't share Jim Salk passion of the electronics. :) He does make good speakers for the money. I don't mean his speakers aren't up to the snuff. I meant in General terms. If the speaker doesn't change the sound with the change of electronics, there is something wrong with that speaker.

    I highly doubt Jim Salk speakers fall in this category. I highly admire of Jim Salk choice of drivers in his speaker.

    I will also quote ScompRacer (Rich) assessment on his Salks tower. He said he is happy with the demo he received with the Emo XPA-2 amps but I doubt he is content with it. I think he is rolling amps and electronics with Salk tower and it must meant Salk speaker doesn't sound the same if different electronics are introduced to them. It is a high mark and definitely doesn't make them fall in my general statement above.

    Quote Originally Posted by megasat16 View Post
    Jim Salk makes awesome speakers and have my respect for his products. But it doesn't mean he earns my respect for his taste in electronics.
    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb View Post
    No...I don't believe he is. Just a general statement is all.
    Thanks Tony! It is exactly what I meant.
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone.

  16. #316

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    Quote Originally Posted by megasat16 View Post
    I think he is rolling amps and electronics with Salk tower and it must meant Salk speaker doesn't sound the same if different electronics are introduced to them.
    IMO, I think this is what Sault was getting at with the comment. Its almost as if he is saying, hey...I'm a speaker builder, I will let the customer get into rolling amps and electronics in their own room to bring out the sound they are after. Maybe he feels the EMO is good enough to Demo the general character of the speakers? Why else would he not Demo $8K speakers with $8K of electronics?
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  17. #317

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    Because it opens up the door for all customers. Those who believe emo is king will love them. Those who look down on emo might think though they sound good on the emo, they must really shine on higher end gear. If emo offers a decent sound with your speaker design, I see no reason not to use them. As far as personal reference, might not be my choice though.
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  18. #318

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    And those who believe that Emo is in the same league as BAT need to listen again and re-think that assessment.........
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:

    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."

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  19. #319

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    Quote Originally Posted by headrott View Post
    And those who believe that Emo is in the same league as BAT need to listen again and re-think that assessment.........
    That's sig material.
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  20. #320

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    Quote Originally Posted by megasat16 View Post

    I will also quote ScompRacer (Rich) assessment on his Salks tower. He said he is happy with the demo he received with the Emo XPA-2 amps but I doubt he is content with it. I think he is rolling amps and electronics with Salk tower and it must meant Salk speaker doesn't sound the same if different electronics are introduced to them. It is a high mark and definitely doesn't make them fall in my general statement above.
    True dat! I know you so I know what you meant. ;)

    Audio is both subjective and relative to what you have experience with. By owning or hearing different gear you gain perspective. Jim Salk is worthy of having a successful speaker building business. Imagine how many speakers he would sell if you were required to spend big dollars for gear to make them sound good. They sound good with an Emo amp and VA gear. They sound really good! If they didn't I wouldn't have bought a pair. His speakers are capable of allowing higher resolution gear to make them sound even better.

    Speakers get you [you fill in the blank] %. The rest is the gear, the room it's in and what you do about any room issues.
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  21. #321

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    Quote Originally Posted by headrott View Post
    And those who believe that Emo is in the same league as BAT need to listen again and re-think that assessment.........
    Good post! The same people don't take the time to try higher end gear, or simply can't afford it!
    I've owned Emo, and BAT! And there's a difference. A BIG difference!
    Jim Salk is not only a speaker designer, but a salesmen to! And a damn good one at both I reckon;-)
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  22. #322

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    Quote Originally Posted by SCompRacer View Post
    Speakers get you [you fill in the blank] %. The rest is the gear, the room it's in and what you do about any room issues.
    Bingo....so your saying...."everything matters" ? LOL

  23. #323

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb View Post
    Bingo....so your saying...."everything matters" ? LOL
    When did I ever say it didn't? ;) I think Jim believes the same thing. What I stand behind is his speakers sound good enough to buy with an Emo amp.

    Too bad his BAT amp was broke I could have asked him to swap the Emo out...lol
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

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  24. #324

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    Quote Originally Posted by SCompRacer View Post
    True dat! I know you so I know what you meant. ;)

    Audio is both subjective and relative to what you have experience with. By owning or hearing different gear you gain perspective. Jim Salk is worthy of having a successful speaker building business. Imagine how many speakers he would sell if you were required to spend big dollars for gear to make them sound good. They sound good with an Emo amp and VA gear. They sound really good! If they didn't I wouldn't have bought a pair. His speakers are capable of allowing higher resolution gear to make them sound even better.

    Speakers get you [you fill in the blank] %. The rest is the gear, the room it's in and what you do about any room issues.
    I know you wouldn't buy it if it doesn't sound good. I am sure you wouldn't move from the Sander's ESL panels if these Salk doesn't sound good and I know how much you love the ESL. :)

    A few years back, I was seriously looking at the Salk Songbirds but a certain islander you know whom told me DIY is the way to go. lol

    Quote Originally Posted by SCompRacer View Post

    Too bad his BAT amp was broke I could have asked him to swap the Emo out...lol
    Now, this is a secret that you mustn't let out. The EMO works and Damn BAT ain't. It explains a lot why Jim loves EMO. lol
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone.

  25. #325

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    Quote Originally Posted by megasat16 View Post
    I know you wouldn't buy it if it doesn't sound good. I am sure you wouldn't move from the Sander's ESL panels if these Salk doesn't sound good and I know how much you love the ESL. :)

    A few years back, I was seriously looking at the Salk Songbirds but a certain islander you know whom told me DIY is the way to go. lol
    Different animals, that's for sure. No regrets, just have to put the effort into getting them to sound their best like I did with the ESL's.

    Yeah that islander you refer to thought I'd be able to pull off the speaker diy thing too, but I took the other way out. I sold off most of the good tools after I finished the lighted lower level here. Took me a year, didn't want to ever see a wood working project again.
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Quote Originally Posted by SCompRacer View Post
    Different animals, that's for sure. No regrets, just have to put the effort into getting them to sound their best like I did with the ESL's.

    Yeah that islander you refer to thought I'd be able to pull off the speaker diy thing too, but I took the other way out. I sold off most of the good tools after I finished the lighted lower level here. Took me a year, didn't want to ever see a wood working project again.
    Yes, different animals for sure! But I think the Salks have dipole radiation for the mids and the tweeters as you mentioned in another thread. I think they would be a bit more easier to drive than the ESL so lower wattage Class A amps may be ideal. The Krell Class A and the Krell KSL pre may just be the ticket to make them sounds great!

    I don't regret going DIY for the speakers. I was too lazy to go DIY but it's all Thanks to Mike for pushing me DIY route. It sure is a lot of work and a lot of learning but I like to get my hands dirty when I am free. The problem is that the Free time is hard to come by. :)

    Happy Listening to the Salk Tower, Rich! I am sure you will be grinning from eyes to eyes listening to them.
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    If I had the experience like you guys, I'd have went the diy speaker route.

    The Raal tweet is sealed at the back so you only get the dipole option out of the Accutron mid. The KSL is a warm sounding Class A SS pre. It was a good combo with the Sanders ESL amp on my ESL's; the KSL pre is also a good combo with the Wyred mono blocks on my SS8's. We tried the Sanders amp in Blake's system (Revel F52's) with a BAT SS pre but the amp was too neutral sounding. Never tried my KSL pre in his system. The Krell KSA-250 amp was an excellent fit in his system with the BAT SS pre so it remained there. I think he said you can take it with but I ain't helping you get it to the car...lol

    If I go too warm with the KSL/KSA combo, I can always try this Krell KRC-HR pre. This pre with my Sanders ESL amp was fatiguing on the ESL speakers. Extremely detailed. Great with the Class A Krell amp though. Not that it matters to me, the KRC-HR is a Sterophile Class A recommended pre. It got there due to the way it was built and sounded. That's what matters to me. The remote volume has 300 discrete attenuation steps. I'll get to where I want to be.....enjoying the process now, wasn't at first.


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