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  1. #91

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    The OP virtually admitted to trolling in post #79. Takes a lot of mental gymnastics to make yourself believe the mis-quote is the actual truth.
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  2. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by pearsall001 View Post
    Don't flatter yourselves. You guys are so easy it's embarrassing. LOL!!
    Odd response since it's you that has been called out once again for your troll BS. What's really funny is that Monk is still swallowing the bait.
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  3. #93

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    ....., the safest bet being an amp with a high dampening factor.
    Not to side-track the thread, but what is a "high dampening factor"? What does it do? Is it good or bad? How do you find out if your amp has it? If it seems to let your amp better match your speakers then how do you know if your speakers need a high, low, or flat dampening factor?

  4. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Habanero Monk View Post
    At least I didn't insinuate he's a hack.
    I never did either. Grasping at imaginary straws I see.
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  5. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Not to side-track the thread, but what is a "high dampening factor"? What does it do? Is it good or bad? How do you find out if your amp has it? If it seems to let your amp better match your speakers then how do you know if your speakers need a high, low, or flat dampening factor?
    Solid state amps generally have a high dampening factor, while tube amps will generally have a low dampening factor. http://www.crownaudio.com/media/pdf/...ing_factor.pdf
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

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    After a so-so day of deep sea fishing, these comments have really brightened things up a bit. Thanks fellows & gals.

  7. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by Face View Post
    Solid state amps generally have a high dampening factor, while tube amps will generally have a low dampening factor. http://www.crownaudio.com/media/pdf/...ing_factor.pdf
    Thank you. Something else to digest.

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    Wow still the very mention of Emo still draws the rebel rousers out in droves..
    Wether Jim Salk used the term inexpensive, he still recommended Emotiva if he did not like Emotiva he would have probably stated Parasound or Adcom in the article..
    It's still funny how the word Emotiva can create the most viewed threads on here, lol
    Some say the Emotiva crowd needs to get a sense of humour, sure in a perfect world but I don't see any other product on this forum get chastised the way Emotiva products are..
    It's almost tantamount to school bullying, what Keiko did the other day..

  9. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jhayman View Post
    Wow still the very mention of Emo still draws the rebel rousers out in droves..
    Wether Jim Salk used the term inexpensive, he still recommended Emotiva if he did not like Emotiva he would have probably stated Parasound or Adcom in the article..
    It's still funny how the word Emotiva can create the most viewed threads on here, lol
    Some say the Emotiva crowd needs to get a sense of humour, sure in a perfect world but I don't see any other product on this forum get chastised the way Emotiva products are..
    It's almost tantamount to school bullying, what Keiko did the other day..
    It's not the mention of Emotiva Jaime, but misinformation passed on by some that "draws out the rebel rousers in droves".

    How is correcting misinformation almost tantamount to school bullying?
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  10. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    Odd response since it's you that has been called out once again for your troll BS. What's really funny is that Monk is still swallowing the bait.
    Oh please, no bait needed for the vast majority around here... Just the word Emotiva is all if takes to get the nasties flowing here.

  11. #101

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    Having fun Phil? Pathetic contribution

    H9
    Last edited by heiney9; 08-24-2013 at 05:21 PM.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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  12. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by headrott View Post
    Monk, if you remember correctly though, Phil PRESENTED the quote as something Jim Salk implied (that an Emotiva XPA-2 is on par with a BAT VK-600). This was a misleading way of presenting what Jim Salk actually meant. That is the cause of this "thread crash" as you put it. I would not call it a "thread crash", but a "thread correction", because that's what it is. Presenting what Jim Salk actually said in stead of taking what he said out of context and then implying that's what he meant.
    I read through both the original and what Phil wrote. I simply don't see it that way. Here is the way I see it when I read the original:

    A list of amps that he believes will work well with his speakers. Any 'inexpensive' or 'expensive' connotation I don't believe was made by him. Additionally I don't see Phil's OP as a paraphrasing to present Emotiva as anything other than an amp Salk mentioned.
    So hot it burns twice

  13. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by Habanero Monk View Post
    I read through both the original and what Phil wrote. I simply don't see it that way. Here is the way I see it when I read the original:

    A list of amps that he believes will work well with his speakers. Any 'inexpensive' or 'expensive' connotation I don't believe was made by him. Additionally I don't see Phil's OP as a paraphrasing to present Emotiva as anything other than an amp Salk mentioned.
    He admitted he did as much and you still don't see it?
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

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  14. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Not to side-track the thread, but what is a "high dampening factor"? What does it do? Is it good or bad? How do you find out if your amp has it? If it seems to let your amp better match your speakers then how do you know if your speakers need a high, low, or flat dampening factor?
    Damping factor is derivative of the amount of negative feedback employed. Also it's takes on less importance in a passive network vs active network since the amplifier doesn't see the driver but the x-over.
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  15. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    He admitted he did as much and you still don't see it?
    I went and looked at the quote. Agreed he's having some fun. Honestly the thing that got me going was Johns' response very early on.

    I'll will stick to the original, unedited article and I don't believe his original post was so far off. Emotiva was indeed mentioned in the audience of some other well regarded amps.
    Last edited by Habanero Monk; 08-24-2013 at 05:40 PM.
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  16. #106

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    This is an excellent write up on damping factor effects. As one can see, it is basically a non-factor. Furthermore, it's been my experience that amps with really high rated damping factors tend to sound worse.

    http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amp...ystem-response
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  17. #107

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    If its a non factor how can they sound worse ? Wouldnt that in an of itself make that a factor worth noting ?

  18. #108

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    Whether this is relevant or not, I don't know, but both the absolute sound and stereophile offer manufacturers the opportunity to respond to the review. I have seen this used to complement the review, correct errors in the review, or give the manufacturer an opportunity to respond to a negative review. In this issue, the comments are on page 143, and there is no response to this review. So, to me, the implication is the manufacturer agrees with what was written. Occasionally, a review comment is in the next month's issue, so we need to wait before we can be 100% certain that the manufacturer agrees with the review.

    My interpretation is he offered a range of amps from low to high that would complement the speakers. How this can be interpreted as meaning the amps are of equal quality is beyond my level of reading comprehension.
    Last edited by BlueFox; 08-24-2013 at 06:37 PM.

  19. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by Habanero Monk View Post
    I went and looked at the quote. Agreed he's having some fun. Honestly the thing that got me going was Johns' response very early on.

    I'll will stick to the original, unedited article and I don't believe his original post was so far off. Emotiva was indeed mentioned in the audience of some other well regarded amps.
    Damn are you gullible.

    It was meant as a joke, heavily laced in sarcasm. Sorry you missed that. I will limit jokes about Emo to Sesame Street levels from now on.
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  20. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by pearsall001 View Post
    There's a nice article in the latest TAS magazine about how the Freid speaker company went to Jim Salk for the R&D of a speaker they wanted developed. It turned out to be a very successful project. When asked what amps he recommended Jim gave the Emotiva XPA-2, several of Frank Van Alstine's designs and the BAT VK600 as great choices. The author of the article also included the Lamm Audio M1.2 reference monoblocks & the PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium int. amp operated in triode mode w/ a pair of KR120. Interesting that Jim includes the Emo as one of his choices in the same company of the other fine amps. He must know something.
    Jim's comment is no more interesting than someone asking me what mid-size cars I would recommend for a comfortable cross-country trip and I respond "Toyota Camry SE ($27,000), Cadillac ATS ($35,000), Audi A6 (42,000), Jaguar XF ($47,000), or Mercedes E-350 ($52,000). My answer should only be taken as a recommendation of cars at different price and quality points that offer a comfortable long-range driving experience. I did not say the Camry was comparable to, or "in the same company as" the Jaguar and the Mercedes. Anyone who inferred that would be desperately delusional.

    On the other hand, if I say the Camry is not as good as the Mercedes, that does not mean the Camry is junk. The Camry is a great value for what it is, but it is not competitive with luxury or near-luxury sedans in any respect.
    Last edited by DarqueKnight; 08-24-2013 at 08:40 PM.
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  21. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarqueKnight View Post
    Anyone who inferred that would be desperately delusional.
    Can I like this?
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  22. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    Having fun Phil? Pathetic contribution

    H9
    Hell yeah...LOL! You guys just take things way too seriously.
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  23. #113

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    And yet there will be people that will take the Toyota over the Cadillac for reasons of not likening American and there will be people preferring the Cadillac over the Audi and the Jaguar over the Mercedes for preferred reasons of better value and build quality..

    Quote Originally Posted by DarqueKnight View Post
    Jim's comment is no more interesting than someone asking me what mid-size cars I would recommend for a comfortable cross-country trip and I respond "Toyota Camry SE ($27,000), Cadillac ATS ($35,000), Audi A6 (42,000), Jaguar XF ($47,000), or Mercedes E-350 ($52,000). My answer should only be taken as a recommendation of cars at different price and quality points that offer a comfortable long-range driving experience. I did not say the Camry was comparable to, or "in the same company as" the Jaguar and the Mercedes. Anyone who inferred that would be desperately delusional.

    On the other hand, if I say the Camry is not as good as the Mercedes, that does not mean the Camry is junk. The Camry is a great value for what it is, but it is not competitive with luxury or near-luxury sedans in any respect.

  24. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by Habanero Monk View Post
    I read through both the original and what Phil wrote. I simply don't see it that way. Here is the way I see it when I read the original:

    A list of amps that he believes will work well with his speakers. Any 'inexpensive' or 'expensive' connotation I don't believe was made by him. Additionally I don't see Phil's OP as a paraphrasing to present Emotiva as anything other than an amp Salk mentioned.
    That pretty much covers it. But I'll try this one more time for all the folks that like to add their own versions. Here is the quote " When I asked Jim Salk for amp recommendations he mentioned an inexpensive option such as the Emotiva XPA-2, several of Frank Van Alstines's designs, and the BAT VK600" end of quote. Since I left out the word "inexpensive" which I honestly thought was no biggee because the way it's written it pretty much lumps them into the same category. Now if Jim had said that he recommends the inexpensive Emotiva XPA-2 along with more expensive amps, like some of the Frank Van Alstine models and the BAT VK600 then that would offer more clarification. I just though it was nice that a well respected audio guru felt that the Emo was up to the task to compliment his new speaker, nothing more, nothing less. But damn around here once someone mentions anything positive about an Emo product all hell breaks loose.
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  25. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jhayman View Post
    And yet there will be people that will take the Toyota over the Cadillac for reasons of not likening American and there will be people preferring the Cadillac over the Audi and the Jaguar over the Mercedes for preferred reasons of better value and build quality..
    I have never seen anybody say they chose a Cadillac over a Benz or Audi because Cadillac has better build quality or value, and I work at a Caddy franchise... Just sayin.

    I have heard them say they bought a Caddy to drive while the Jag is in the shop however.
    Last edited by nooshinjohn; 08-24-2013 at 10:29 PM.
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  26. #116

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    Cool, I have been looking at the Emo stuff on the web. The build quality looks better then Rotel, on par with Bryston and almost as nice as Krell.
    Now I don't know about sound because I haven't installed any Emo gear, but I would love to try a mono block from them or that XPA-2.

    It is hard to get a good gauge on Emo gear. Their are two very opposite sides. Looks to be a Emo fanboy side and a snobby audio gear side. One side swears by the gear and the other try's to play it off as if the Emo gear owners are just noobs or cheap. OR maybe they arent snobby at all and they really are just dealing with fanboys. Cant know unless I try it for myself.
    Last edited by RamZet; 08-24-2013 at 10:43 PM.
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  27. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by pearsall001 View Post
    But damn around here once someone mentions anything positive about an Emo product all hell breaks loose.
    This is another red herring statement... nobody here CARES if something positive is said here about Emo. What we care about are all the Emoette fanbois jumping in and declaring victory over the much more experienced members of the forum. Seriously... some of you guys operate with the same mindset as the MB in Egypt. If I were to say that "Emotiva builds what appears to be solid gear" nobody here would jump on that.

    If, however, I were to say that "Emotiva builds solid gear FOR THE PRICE, but that I don't care to own it because I like my gear better"... then perhaps I recommend something other than Emo to somebody... well that is brand-bashing in the eyes of Emoettes the world over, and if my address were public knowledge, I would need to join a witness protection program.

    The gear is not the problem... I hope that clarifies things for you.
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    This is what I want to look like when I grow up:

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    Nope, nobody would jump on that John, or even note it in their log. Emotiva amps are pretty solid. I wouldn't buy a first gen HT processor given their issues, but I have thought about the second gen as a way to integrate some of my digital-only sources into the rig. All of that was killed when I began investigating the versatility of the Oppo 105 though. I'd have no issue recommending Emotiva depending on the buyer and his/her guidelines.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSkip View Post
    This is what I want to look like when I grow up
    You're not far from it....
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