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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by cfrizz View Post
    The only time I get to ragging is when those of you who spend more dollars immediately start ragging on Emotiva or other supposed "Entry" level gear just because you have grown so far beyond it. Entry level is relative to each individual person. You immediately point people to buy used gear that you consider better, totally discounting the fact that not everyone is comfortable buying used products. None of this gear is cheap new or used and some people will feel more comfortable buying brand new.

    I would say that just about any separates are better than an all in one receivers that includes Emotiva, & Outlaw Audio.

    If people will stop jumping into Emotiva discussions to put them down and simply ignore those threads these train wrecks wouldn't happen, and thoughts of these people being snobs/elitists wouldn't occur. Live and let live can/should be practiced on BOTH sides of these discussions.
    Quote Originally Posted by ALL212 View Post
    "If people will stop jumping into Emotiva discussions to put them down and simply ignore those threads these train wrecks wouldn't happen, and thoughts of these people being snobs/elitists wouldn't occur. Live and let live can/should be practiced on BOTH sides of these discussions. "

    Hammer, nail, head...
    Started with Cathy's post.....then you quoted said post....then Dskip commented and then I commented. The OP didn't mention it, but then someone did and the discussion took a turn.

    H9
    Last edited by heiney9; 08-24-2013 at 04:13 PM.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    That's admirable Cathy and you have a very nice rig. But, on the flip side you need to stop ragging on those that do want to go the next few levels up, spend lots more $$$ and get more enjoyment without pulling out the "elitist or snob" card and that goes for a lot of people here.

    H9
    Looks like you forgot to get H9's permission first. Either he or F1 have to be asked first as usually they're the only ones that can do that.

    Didn't you read the rules first?

    I've read her post 10 times - not one RAG in it anywhere. She's happy. (that's a period) and that's what she stated.
    Aaron

  3. #33

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    Aaron, it's from history over the past 6-7 years. I wasn't talking about this singular thread. If you spent more time here you'd know that. And I'm not saying that in a nasty way at all, it's just a fact. See much of the interaction here is based on a history of knowing people and their tenancies, beliefs, etc. not just a singular comment in one singular thread.

    You tend to jump into threads occasionally, and make flippant comments not knowing the above. Just my observation and again not meant mean spirited at all. Unless I'm wrong and you lurk here several hours a day getting to know everyone and how they interact and what their stance, attitude and beliefs are on this board. Pearsall (Phil) and I go back and forth constantly. We've met at Polk fests and have a great time debating face to face over beer. It certainly would seem weird to someone who didn't know that and thought we were just pissing in each other Wheaties. I've met Cathy on one occasion and I do respect her beliefs in the hobby, but I also feel I can push back at times when I don't agree.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by ALL212 View Post
    Looks like you forgot to get H9's permission first. Either he or F1 have to be asked first as usually they're the only ones that can do that.

    Didn't you read the rules first?

    I've read her post 10 times - not one RAG in it anywhere. She's happy. (that's a period) and that's what she stated.
    Easy does it Aaron, I know where H9 is coming from and he knows where I'm coming from. Neither one of us were slamming the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    Aaron, it's from history over the past 6-7 years. I wasn't talking about this singular thread. If you spent more time here you'd know that. And I'm not saying that in a nasty way at all, it's just a fact. See much of the interaction here is based on a history of knowing people and their tenancies, beliefs, etc. not just a singular comment in one singular thread.

    You tend to jump into threads occasionally, and make flippant comments not knowing the above. Just my observation and again not meant mean spirited at all. Unless I'm wrong and you lurk here several hours a day getting to know everyone and how they interact and what their stance, attitude and beliefs are on this board. Pearsall (Phil) and I go back and forth constantly. We've met at Polk fests and have a great time debating face to face over beer. It certainly would seem weird to someone who didn't know that and thought we were just pissing in each other Wheaties. I've met Cathy on one occasion and I do respect her beliefs in the hobby, but I also feel I can push back at times when I don't agree.

    H9
    Thanks H9, I feel the same way about your beliefs. It usually just comes down to how those beliefs are presented that clashes can occur. Have a good weekend & enjoy the tunes!
    Sunfire TGP III PrePro, Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature 405wpc 5 ch. Amp, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Onkyo TA2600 Tape Deck, Pioneer Elite 47-A DVD, Sony 32" XBR TV, Polk RTA-8T Main Speakers, Boston VR-920 Center Channel, Boston PV-600 Subwoofer, Polk DSW 400 Subwoofer, Polk FXi-3 Surround Speakers

  5. #35

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    "I've met Brock on more than one occasion and I do respect his beliefs in the hobby, but I also feel I can push back at times when I don't agree."

    One of the reasons I don't spend much time in here is because the lack of respect between members. You should probably take into consideration that there might be people who would like to be in this forum but because they read posts like yours they probably move on to other forums. I'm sure that doesn't bother you, however, it would be nice not to have to read the post you followed up with on Cathy's remark - it didn't add anything to the thread. It makes you, not her, look condescending and rude. Which, after popping in here time and again, appears to be more the rule with your posts than the exception.

    I shouldn't have to read every post from every member to come in here and glean info. I was interested in the OP's remarks, read up and found the train wreck.

    And I find more and more threads in this condition...

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by ALL212 View Post
    "I've met Brock on more than one occasion and I do respect his beliefs in the hobby, but I also feel I can push back at times when I don't agree."

    One of the reasons I don't spend much time in here is because the lack of respect between members. You should probably take into consideration that there might be people who would like to be in this forum but because they read posts like yours they probably move on to other forums. I'm sure that doesn't bother you, however, it would be nice not to have to read the post you followed up with on Cathy's remark - it didn't add anything to the thread. It makes you, not her, look condescending and rude. Which, after popping in here time and again, appears to be more the rule with your posts than the exception.

    I shouldn't have to read every post from every member to come in here and glean info. I was interested in the OP's remarks, read up and found the train wreck.

    And I find more and more threads in this condition...
    What you perceive as lack of respect is purely difference in opinion. This is a pretty tight-knit community and, like H9 says, there is a lot of history here. I don't see a train wreck, just a brief side-conversation. I don't understand why you would take something said between two members who have a relationship, albeit a public one, and get offended by anything. There is a lot of tough love here, and that might scare away those like you who misinterpret it.


    If you find more threads in this condition, then you're hand-picking threads. Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear.
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Douglas IC's, AQ cv-8 SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

  7. #37

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    FWIW... I don't swap tubes. I will admit to changing 2A3s once I got that pair of rather goofy looking Sofia "mesh" plates.


    I listen.

    Yes the HF driver on my speakers is horn loaded. The LF driver's a direct radiator, albeit a sensitive one.
    Altec Duplexes. Look 'em up...

    Last edited by mhardy6647; 08-24-2013 at 08:29 PM.
    all the best,
    mrh

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSkip View Post
    If you find more threads in this condition, then you're hand-picking threads. Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear.

    LOL.....Now that's sig material there. Good advice......

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb View Post
    LOL.....Now that's sig material there. Good advice......
    Indeed it is.

    I look at this group as sort of an extended (and exceedingly dysfuntional) family.
    Sure, we have our drunken uncles who keep trying to grope their underaged neices, but overall, we are just a fun loving bunch of folks who have a common love for audio.
    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
    I may have an addiction... RTA-15TL, SDA 2, LSi25, LSi15, LSi9, LSi7, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LS/FX, RT/FX, DSW MP2000...and that's just the Polks...

  10. #40

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    Absolutely....^^^^^, well said. BTW-which one of us is the drunken uncle with groping hands ? I'm nominating H9 for that illustrious position in the family. He just has that "look".

  11. #41

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    Sitting on a park bench.....

    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

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  12. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb View Post
    Absolutely....^^^^^, well said. BTW-which one of us is the drunken uncle with groping hands ? I'm nominating H9 for that illustrious position in the family. He just has that "look".
    I've never seen heiney (har...har...har) but I am pretty sure, based on his posts that he is definitely gropey.
    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
    I may have an addiction... RTA-15TL, SDA 2, LSi25, LSi15, LSi9, LSi7, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LS/FX, RT/FX, DSW MP2000...and that's just the Polks...

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZLTFUL View Post
    I've never seen heiney (har...har...har) but I am pretty sure, based on his posts that he is definitely gropey.
    I have spent much time with Brock alone and with friends and he has never groped at one of us men folk; their may or may not have been some gropes for passing females.
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

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  14. #44

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    I think we can all agree that there is bigger ,better ,faster,in everything obtainable.Would I like a Mac 275 hell yea but what would I being doing w/ such a machine ,No golden ear here, got to Telefunkens, Gold Lions, Sylvainias,Sovteks,RCAs way to much to deal with. Like art and music it'self I believe this tube amp /vs. ss can be all subjective.Advantages to ss, clean instant on power , not to much drain on electric, my Adcom can push just about any speaker out there and then it shuts down nice and easy piesy.Tubes ,warm up time ,excessive heat , more power draw w/ the bigger amps oh and warm fuzzy sound I keep hearing about.Keep it.Yes I have heard Audio Reasearch tubes and integrated amps and some other way over the top high end tube amps and I would still go the way I'm going.Different strokes .....
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  15. #45
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    Quality watts are the most important factory when it comes to sound quality, but physics does still dictate audio. Bass response takes power, and a pair of corner horns sound amazing with 500wpc monoblocks...

  16. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by leftwinger57 View Post
    Advantages to ss, clean instant on power , not to much drain on electric, my Adcom can push just about any speaker out there.....
    Just to expound, it depends on the biasing. Electronics exhibit their lowest distortion and best performance at a specific design voltage and temperature. All amps have a transconductance curve; what comes out versus what goes in. In a Class A device, high bias results in high heat. Class A/B, less heat. Transistor type makes a difference. Are they taking temp off the heat sink for bias? It will take some time for it to stabilize. Transistors are available with internal temp sensors now so bias can be more respsonsive. All depends on the design as to how quickly we get the best performance specs of the amp we are using.

    Buy yes, different strokes does apply.
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  17. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by leftwinger57 View Post
    .....
    Lew, I'm going to put this bluntly so don't take anything personally. Based on your posts, it sounds like you're trying to do one of two things:

    A. Convince yourself you don't DESERVE anything "nice" in the hobby
    B. Convince yourself you don't WANT anything "nice" in the hobby

    Just because you might not have the ears of those entrenched in the hobby (yet) doesn't mean you don't deserve such products. Either way you look at it, it looks like you're doing everything in your power to convince yourself you don't need anything "nice". I understand financial hardship, but that doesn't mean you have to quit dreaming. Different strokes do apply, but this is the undertone I sense in your posts.


    In the mean-time, you do have a nice system going and that might be enough to keep you content for a long time. I have friends who would love to have the gear you have, they just can't afford it. Not to say they have given up the dream though...
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Douglas IC's, AQ cv-8 SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

  18. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by SCompRacer View Post
    Just to expound, it depends on the biasing. Electronics exhibit their lowest distortion and best performance at a specific design voltage and temperature. All amps have a transconductance curve; what comes out versus what goes in. In a Class A device, high bias results in high heat. Class A/B, less heat. Transistor type makes a difference. Are they taking temp off the heat sink for bias? It will take some time for it to stabilize. Transistors are available with internal temp sensors now so bias can be more respsonsive. All depends on the design as to how quickly we get the best performance specs of the amp we are using.
    Damn skippy. My little Class A 27wpc SS amp feels twice as hot as my tube pre. Fairly certain that if my wife found out how much the amp draws sitting powered on all day every day she'd be flipping the switch off when I was at work, too...
    Wris****ch--->Crisco

  19. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey081057 View Post
    Ha Great signature... Broken Hearts are for A**holes!

    I bet only a rare few know the reference.

    Zappa greatest ever!
    I was going to change it to another FZ quote, but I kinda like the way the forum software censors it. I can't even make wris* ***ch two words without it adding the asterisks.
    Wris****ch--->Crisco

  20. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by strider View Post
    Damn skippy. My little Class A 27wpc SS amp feels twice as hot as my tube pre. Fairly certain that if my wife found out how much the amp draws sitting powered on all day every day she'd be flipping the switch off when I was at work, too...
    I had a Krell Class A amp here for a spell that pulled ~12 amps idle.

    I've had some simple innocent words get censored too. Can't recall what though. I can understand chump m f getting censored...
    Last edited by SCompRacer; 08-27-2013 at 04:20 PM.
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

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  21. #51

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    D, you might totally right by my attitude towards want and desire.But as 60 y/o dude I have heard tube amps and through the years both going to audio stores and my job as an alarm installer while at clients houses listened to plenty of systems w/ of course the owners permission.i really should stop the woe is me routine I get that but that, it's not going to change the fact I prefer ss to a tube amp for most of the reasons I gave before beyond cost. No, I really liked your write up and did not take it anyway but helpful...Lew

  22. #52

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    Not trying to hijack but i'd like some opinions from anyone with tube experience. I've had plenty of horn speakers that I liked, but i'll never go back once I got my ZU's. I'm already looking at the Soul with 99db efficiency, should be able to drive it with about anything. I just got the Peachtree Nova with an Amperex 7308 tube in the preamp, and all it made me want to do is sell it and go to a full tube amp setup. The Omen's are 12ohm 97db efficient and I think i've got a few options available, prob going to try a SET amp and see how it works. I never have wanted to get into tubes until now, but I really want a nice little tube amp in my living room. Does anyone know if it'd be ok for daily use and tv watching, being turned on and off a few times a day? That's the only reason i've avoided tubes until now, but I don't think I can live in the dark anymore
    Theater Room: Pioneer Elite SC-35, RTi12's, Csi5, Fxi5's, Fxi3's, ED A5-350 sub, Optoma HD20, 92'' Elite Screen, Sony BDPS790, Xbox One, APC H15, MIT Exp 2 SC's, Pepster PC's

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    B Run, I use mine in just that way. I have a pair of Manley Mahi EL-84 amps powering the ZU Omen Def and its a great combination. You don't need such an expensive amp so the point is that the sound of the EL-84 tubes is great with the ZU, just a data point. You may or may not like the 300B tubes with the ZU, at least I'm on the fence with that combo.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D

  24. #54

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    Nice, thanks for the help. I've got someone buying my Nova today so i'll shop around and see what I can find.
    Theater Room: Pioneer Elite SC-35, RTi12's, Csi5, Fxi5's, Fxi3's, ED A5-350 sub, Optoma HD20, 92'' Elite Screen, Sony BDPS790, Xbox One, APC H15, MIT Exp 2 SC's, Pepster PC's

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  25. #55

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    I could highly recommend my pre/amp combo from Grant Fidelity. If you're up for a trip, you could bring those bad boys up some time and test them out in my room with those amps. It would at least give you a reference point to work with considering. I've also got a Jolida EL34 based amp to show what more power might do for them. I don't know how either would pair up with the Zu's though since I haven't had the chance to hear any yet on any setup. When I researched (well over a month) for my purchase, I ran the gamut of everything $2k and under. Went after a Rogue M-120 pair on the bay and lost, then started looking closer at the Shuguangs. Many feel that one of the best sounding combo's are the 300b's driving 845 power tubes, the exact design mine have. That helped me pull the trigger among other things.

    Another cheaper option might be something like the Dared SL2000a and their 300b tube quasi-monoblocks. The trio would easily be half the price of my setup, but according to mad, that might not be a great pairing. Flea powered amps are a dime a dozen and, to get your foot in the door, they don't cost nearly as much as their higher powered brethren (in most cases).
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Douglas IC's, AQ cv-8 SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

  26. #56

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    Checking out the Grant Fidelity site, ran across this hybrid integrated that really peaked my interest. My budget was $800 so it's about right, it's a tube pre with SS amp, seems like a good deal based on the original price. Any opinions? http://shop.grantfidelity.com/Cleara...Amplifier.html
    Theater Room: Pioneer Elite SC-35, RTi12's, Csi5, Fxi5's, Fxi3's, ED A5-350 sub, Optoma HD20, 92'' Elite Screen, Sony BDPS790, Xbox One, APC H15, MIT Exp 2 SC's, Pepster PC's

    Living Room: Martin Logan ESL's, Peachtree Audio iNova, Zu Mission SC's & IC's, Pepster PC, Sharp Aquos 60'', AEX

    Bedroom: Panasonic AX200U projector, 110" screen

    Outdoor: Polk Atrium 5's, Yamaha Rxv371

  27. #57

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    Brandon, I can definitely recommend a tube amp for your Omens. A Primaluna Prologue 4 sounds awesome with them. I'm listening to my Omens powered by the Primaluna right now as I type this and it sounds heavenly! You can buy them brand new from Upscale Audio for around $1000. They are awesome! Great sound quality, auto-bias, tube grid protection circuit, you can run a wide range of power tubes in them (6l6s, EL34s, KT88s, KT90s, KT120s), point to point wiring, etc. I've had many tube and solid state amps that listed for much more than the PL, but to my ears none of them has sounded as good in my system as the PL.

    Keeping on theme with the thread, the PL is only rated at 35wpc, but it has to be the strongest 35wpc amp I've heard. It pushes a pair of hard to drive Magnapans without breaking a sweat. If I were in your shoes, that's what I would go with. You can thank me later!

  28. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by B Run View Post
    Checking out the Grant Fidelity site, ran across this hybrid integrated that really peaked my interest. My budget was $800 so it's about right, it's a tube pre with SS amp, seems like a good deal based on the original price. Any opinions? http://shop.grantfidelity.com/Cleara...Amplifier.html
    I want to say Zingo owned that amp, so he might be able to comment more on them. If you want to get a taste for their sound signature, my offer still stands. I also have a Jolida SJ-302a that I am very tempted to move, just haven't pulled the trigger yet. I'm waiting on Paul to bring that Carver up and see what it can do for those Magnepans.
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Douglas IC's, AQ cv-8 SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

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    Well i'm a huge vagina and couldn't bite the bullet on a full tube setup. I just bought a Peachtree iNova because I liked the Nova so much, and it was on sale for the exact price I sold my Nova for today. My problem was I really really like the DAC in the iNova, and my budget was $800ish and I needed a dac, remote capability and a hookup for my subwoofer up too. I think within the year i'll break down and do a nice tube setup and standalone dac, but for now couldn't pass up the deal. PS the iNova refurbs are selling for $799 ($1,000 off original retail) straight from Peachtree until the end of the week. Sorry to thread hijack and thanks for the advice. Dskip I really would like to take you up on your offer sometime, if nothing else always a chance to hear some new gear and meet a fellow Polkie. Thanks again for all the help everyone.
    Theater Room: Pioneer Elite SC-35, RTi12's, Csi5, Fxi5's, Fxi3's, ED A5-350 sub, Optoma HD20, 92'' Elite Screen, Sony BDPS790, Xbox One, APC H15, MIT Exp 2 SC's, Pepster PC's

    Living Room: Martin Logan ESL's, Peachtree Audio iNova, Zu Mission SC's & IC's, Pepster PC, Sharp Aquos 60'', AEX

    Bedroom: Panasonic AX200U projector, 110" screen

    Outdoor: Polk Atrium 5's, Yamaha Rxv371

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    Shoot me a PM and I'll try to get another get-together going centered around when you're available. I know a few of the guys were itching to do it again as soon as it ended, though someone else might want to host the event this time around.
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Douglas IC's, AQ cv-8 SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

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