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  1. #1

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    Default Pre/Pro recommendations

    This is a little out into the future but I want to know what I'm shooting for $ wise now. What I have in mind is posted below at a total cost of ~$1600 I am not brand loyal to anything (besides vintage Polks). My only stipulation is that it isn't something that is going to take a million years to save up for. I cook for $13/hour I want the amp to be 5 channel. I want the pre to have HDMI switching and digital connections.

    Priorities - in order
    1) Cost
    2) Reliability
    3) SQ
    4) Power

    Pre - Emotiva UMC-200

    http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/...roducts/umc200






    Amp - Emotiva XPA-5

    http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/...products/xpa-5

    |Fronts - Peerless RTA-12B | Center(s) - Peerless Monitor 5 | Rears - Peerless Monitor 4 |
    |Amp for fronts - Yamaha CA-1010 | Preamp (and amp for center/rears) - RX-V667 |
    |TV - Philips 46" Smart LED | Gaming - Xbox One - Xbox 360 | Headphones - Philips Fidelio X1 |

  2. #2

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    Outlaw audio also has a separate pre/pro that you should look at. AFAIK, they are the only two affordable ones out there. You could also consider the Oppo 105 as an all-in-one solution if you don't need more than 2 additional HDMI inputs. That would be a bit more, but for $2k, you should be able to create a stellar system with the Oppo + $800 for an amp.
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Essence Audio HDACC, Douglas IC's, Douglas Alpha bi-wire SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

  3. #3

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    Thanks, I will look up Outlaw. Are the Marantz amps class D? I noticed this for sale for $1199 http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...umber=MAMM7055 Less power than the Emotiva, weighs less than half, and more expensive. Is the SQ really there compared to the Emotiva, what gives?
    |Fronts - Peerless RTA-12B | Center(s) - Peerless Monitor 5 | Rears - Peerless Monitor 4 |
    |Amp for fronts - Yamaha CA-1010 | Preamp (and amp for center/rears) - RX-V667 |
    |TV - Philips 46" Smart LED | Gaming - Xbox One - Xbox 360 | Headphones - Philips Fidelio X1 |

  4. #4

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    - Not class D: http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=AVSeparates&ProductId=MM 7055[/url]

    - Weight in amps come from the transformer, the heatsink, and the chassis...the PCB's weight little in comparison. It looks like two TOTALLY different designs in regards to cooling. Emo has heatsinks for each channel....and Marantz uses a single cooling channel for all output devices.

    Physically, the MM7055’s output stages mount on an extruded aluminum “thermal tunnel” for efficient heat dissipation. With temperature-sensing forced air cooling, this configuration assures cool operating temperatures for long-term reliability, even when making full use of the amplifier’s substantial output capabilities.
    MM7055 Internal
    http://audio.com.pl/pics/testy/max_m..._av7055_08.jpg

    XPA-5 internal
    http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/010...x1024.jpg?1069

    - Marantz name and non-internet direct adds a premium

    - This has been asked before: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...ghlight=MM7055

    -In terms of SQ many like Marantz products in general or sound and many like Emotiva's performance per dollar. Many won't jump up and down for either product and will personally prefer other brands....but there are very few NEW choices for $1000! The improved XPA-5 Gen 2 is one of the better values around if the sound suits ones taste. Some don't like Emotiva...but I'm sure many have yet to hear the Gen 2. Looks like they use different output transistors:

    The amplifier modules inside the X Series amplifiers have been modified using new high-current, gain matched output transistors. The new output transistors have been sourced from ON Semiconductor (formerly Motorola) and can be found in numerous high-end amplifiers apart from Emotiva. These new output transistors are charged with improving linearity throughout the frequency band as well as improving high frequency performance. The new transistors coupled with a whole new board layout and grounding scheme help the XPA-5 achieve a lower noise floor while increasing dynamic range. Lastly, the XPA-5, like all X Series Gen 2 amplifiers, features a newly redesigned Toroidal transformer that features higher grade silicon steel internally that helps cut down on mechanical noise.
    Quoted from:
    http://www.andrew-robinson-online.co...nel-amplifier/

    MM7055 review/measurement
    http://www.hometheater.com/content/m...-labs-measures

    MM7055 refurb - $799.99 http://www.accessories4less.com/make...plifier/1.html
    Last edited by WLDock; 08-26-2013 at 06:20 AM.
    FAMILY ROOM
    TV - Mitsubishi WD-73734 73" DLP 1080P | AVR - Onkyo TX-NR3008 | Source - Sony PS3 Slim 320GB | Front - PolkAudio RT3000p | Center -PolkAudio CS400i | Surround - PolkAudio F/X1000 | Sub - DIY Stereo Integrity HT 15 | Sub Amp - Behringer EUROPOWER EP2500

    2 Ch Dreaming...hoping to purchase, build someday???
    OPPO 105 | Cary or Rogue Audio tube Preamp | Parasound HALO A21 amp | DIY Mini Statements towers

  5. #5

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    not trying to hijack the thread but these days AVR seems to have a lot of spec/options than a stand alone Pre/Pro
    why not go with a AVR?

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    I think the OP's RTA-12B's are 4 Ohm and has two Monitor 5's wires for 4 Ohms and is looking for a more 2 ch and Multi ch SQ than his/her current AVR based on this post: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...Setup-Complete
    I guess the OP can confirm....

    The later Elite SC's would be one of the choices that is rated to drive 4 Ohms. Like this used SC-65 for $800 on CL in the OP's area: http://denver.craigslist.org/ele/4002100188.html
    FAMILY ROOM
    TV - Mitsubishi WD-73734 73" DLP 1080P | AVR - Onkyo TX-NR3008 | Source - Sony PS3 Slim 320GB | Front - PolkAudio RT3000p | Center -PolkAudio CS400i | Surround - PolkAudio F/X1000 | Sub - DIY Stereo Integrity HT 15 | Sub Amp - Behringer EUROPOWER EP2500

    2 Ch Dreaming...hoping to purchase, build someday???
    OPPO 105 | Cary or Rogue Audio tube Preamp | Parasound HALO A21 amp | DIY Mini Statements towers

  7. #7

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    Yes I want

    1) 4 Ohm compatibility
    2) Better SQ. With my current setup, even in 2 channel mode, the more I lean into the volume the more constrained the sound stage gets and the brighter and more stressed the sound gets.
    3) The HDMI out on my Yamaha is broke.

    I am not opposed to another AVR as long as I will be happy with it.
    |Fronts - Peerless RTA-12B | Center(s) - Peerless Monitor 5 | Rears - Peerless Monitor 4 |
    |Amp for fronts - Yamaha CA-1010 | Preamp (and amp for center/rears) - RX-V667 |
    |TV - Philips 46" Smart LED | Gaming - Xbox One - Xbox 360 | Headphones - Philips Fidelio X1 |

  8. #8

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    Didn't Emotiva have a ton of firmware problems with their pre/pro units? I kinda wish Pioneer Elite made a standalone pre/pro, noticed Yamaha brought a model out this year that looks pretty sharp.
    Last edited by Polkie2009; 08-26-2013 at 01:56 PM.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polkie2009 View Post
    Didn't Emotiva have a ton of firmware problems with their pre/pro units? I kinda wish Pioneer Elite made a standalone pre/pro, noticed Yamaha brought a model out this year that looks pretty sharp.
    Yes. There are still unresolved issues with the UMC-200. The more I read about it, the more I'm doubting it's a good choice. The amp, however, seems like good value.
    |Fronts - Peerless RTA-12B | Center(s) - Peerless Monitor 5 | Rears - Peerless Monitor 4 |
    |Amp for fronts - Yamaha CA-1010 | Preamp (and amp for center/rears) - RX-V667 |
    |TV - Philips 46" Smart LED | Gaming - Xbox One - Xbox 360 | Headphones - Philips Fidelio X1 |

  10. #10

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    I would look to see if the Outlaw Model 975 has enough functionality for you. Great company, great products. And if you can find a way to do without the HDMI, you open up a lot more options, like the Outlaw Audio 990 that I am using. Terrific unit. I let my TV handle the HDMI switching and use optical and coaxial digital outputs from my gear. The only drawback is with that type of setup, you don't get the highest quality codecs that only HDMI supports, such as Dolby TruHD or DTS HD Master Audio. My plan to work around that limitation is to eventually get an Oppo player that will output those codecs to analog outputs. The 990 has 7.1 analog inputs. I've not been in a hurry to implement that plan because lately I have been doing very little Blu-Ray watching.

    Anyway, if you think you could be happy with a setup like that there are a LOT of pre/pros out there without HDMI support that are of very high quality. And you can find many of them on the used market (Audiogon/eBay) for not a lot of money.

    RT-12, CS350-LS, PSW-300, Infinity Overture 1, Monoprice RC-65i
    Adcom GFA-545II, GFA-6000, Outlaw Audio 990, Netgear NeoTV
    Denon DCM-460, DMD-1000, Sony BDP-360, Bravia KDL-40Z4100/S
    Monster AVL-300, HTS-2500 MKII

  11. #11

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    I'm pretty happy with my Onkyo, it's in my HT rig but I would imagine it would handle double duty pretty well
    Home Theater
    Onkyo PR-SC5508 Sharp LC-70LE847U
    Emotiva XPA-5 Emotiva XPA-2 Emotiva UPA-2
    Front RTi-A9 Wide RTi-A7 Center CSi-A6 Surround FXi-A6 Rear RTi-A3 Sub 2x PSW505
    Sony BDP-S790 Dishnetwork Hopper/Joey Logitech Harmony One Apple TV
    Two Channel
    Oppo 105D BAT VK-500 w/BatPack SDA SRS 2.3 Dreadnought Squeezebox Touch Apple TV

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sumerian View Post
    not trying to hijack the thread but these days AVR seems to have a lot of spec/options than a stand alone Pre/Pro
    why not go with a AVR?
    Just the opposite, pre/pro's generally have a higher level of adjustability for the sound, and a better build quality to them usually resulting in better sound.

  13. #13

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    Highly considering Oppo BDP-105 in place of a pre. Buying a pre is a possibility afterwards if I run into the need. It has everything I need.
    |Fronts - Peerless RTA-12B | Center(s) - Peerless Monitor 5 | Rears - Peerless Monitor 4 |
    |Amp for fronts - Yamaha CA-1010 | Preamp (and amp for center/rears) - RX-V667 |
    |TV - Philips 46" Smart LED | Gaming - Xbox One - Xbox 360 | Headphones - Philips Fidelio X1 |

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfall View Post
    Highly considering Oppo BDP-105 in place of a pre. Buying a pre is a possibility afterwards if I run into the need. It has everything I need.
    And more. I think they really hit the mark with that unit.
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Essence Audio HDACC, Douglas IC's, Douglas Alpha bi-wire SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

  15. #15

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    A Pioneer Elite SC 57 or 67 could be had well within the OP's budget and beat the Emo amp-Pre/Pro combo on all counts, as well as be far more reliable in terms of processing. Emo has yet to get a processor right IMHO.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Monoblocks, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds, Dodd Audio MLP, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Peachtree I-DAC, Oppo BDP-93, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable, with Sumiko BPS EVOIII, Pioneer PDD 9MkII SACD Player, SimAudio moon 110lp phono preamplifier

    "The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Brad Shurett

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfall View Post
    Yes I want

    1) 4 Ohm compatibility
    2) Better SQ. With my current setup, even in 2 channel mode, the more I lean into the volume the more constrained the sound stage gets and the brighter and more stressed the sound gets.
    3) The HDMI out on my Yamaha is broke.

    I am not opposed to another AVR as long as I will be happy with it.
    I have been in love with the power, ease of use and sound quality of my Pio Elite SC37 since I got it two years ago. $799 on clearance from Magnolia. You can find a newer model for 1200-1500 and not look back.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Monoblocks, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds, Dodd Audio MLP, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Peachtree I-DAC, Oppo BDP-93, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable, with Sumiko BPS EVOIII, Pioneer PDD 9MkII SACD Player, SimAudio moon 110lp phono preamplifier

    "The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Brad Shurett

  17. #17

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    Pioneer Elite SC-71 is readily available for under $800. It's rated to run 4 ohm speakers with its own amps.

    http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...eceivers/SC-71

  18. #18

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    Pioneer SC series or Oppo BDP-105? Argh!
    |Fronts - Peerless RTA-12B | Center(s) - Peerless Monitor 5 | Rears - Peerless Monitor 4 |
    |Amp for fronts - Yamaha CA-1010 | Preamp (and amp for center/rears) - RX-V667 |
    |TV - Philips 46" Smart LED | Gaming - Xbox One - Xbox 360 | Headphones - Philips Fidelio X1 |

  19. #19

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    Head over to your local Best Buy Magnolia and check out the Pioneer. There are open box and close out deals at several stores. Use the iPhone or Android Best Buy app to find them. I bet if you searched for deals and used items you could get a Pioneer SC unit and the Oppo BDP-105 for $1600.
    FAMILY ROOM
    TV - Mitsubishi WD-73734 73" DLP 1080P | AVR - Onkyo TX-NR3008 | Source - Sony PS3 Slim 320GB | Front - PolkAudio RT3000p | Center -PolkAudio CS400i | Surround - PolkAudio F/X1000 | Sub - DIY Stereo Integrity HT 15 | Sub Amp - Behringer EUROPOWER EP2500

    2 Ch Dreaming...hoping to purchase, build someday???
    OPPO 105 | Cary or Rogue Audio tube Preamp | Parasound HALO A21 amp | DIY Mini Statements towers

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfall View Post
    Yes I want

    1) 4 Ohm compatibility
    2) Better SQ. With my current setup, even in 2 channel mode, the more I lean into the volume the more constrained the sound stage gets and the brighter and more stressed the sound gets.3) The HDMI out on my Yamaha is broke.

    I am not opposed to another AVR as long as I will be happy with it.
    That's a sure sign to back off the volume dial. Just to be straight here, nothing you acquire will allow you to bury a volume dial. Not suggesting you are, but when you say "lean into" I take it as you like it loud.

    That said, and given the rest of your gear, I would say the Pioneer SC series of receivers are right up your alley.

  21. #21

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    When using just the vintage CA-1010 by itself, it sounds great at about 11 o'clock position. If I add the RX-V667 into the mix, use the preouts to the CA-1010, even though the CA is still powering the speakers in question if I get anywhere near the same volume that used to be the 11 o'clock position it sounds as described. Even with "pure direct" switched on. I'd say once you get to -20db is where the brightness starts coming in and the closer to 0db (or the original 11 o'clock SPL) you go the worse it gets.
    |Fronts - Peerless RTA-12B | Center(s) - Peerless Monitor 5 | Rears - Peerless Monitor 4 |
    |Amp for fronts - Yamaha CA-1010 | Preamp (and amp for center/rears) - RX-V667 |
    |TV - Philips 46" Smart LED | Gaming - Xbox One - Xbox 360 | Headphones - Philips Fidelio X1 |

  22. #22

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    What your hearing is the difference between a very good vintage piece in the CA-1010, and an entry level receiver. Buy one receiver that will sound good and give you the connectivity you need. I believe a few were already mentioned. Would be hard for anyone not to be happy with a Pioneer SC series receiver and an Oppo bdp. 2 of the most sought after pieces in the general consumer market and for good reason.

  23. #23

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    I appreciate all the advice everyone. Do big box stores let you return AVR's for any reason within a few days?
    |Fronts - Peerless RTA-12B | Center(s) - Peerless Monitor 5 | Rears - Peerless Monitor 4 |
    |Amp for fronts - Yamaha CA-1010 | Preamp (and amp for center/rears) - RX-V667 |
    |TV - Philips 46" Smart LED | Gaming - Xbox One - Xbox 360 | Headphones - Philips Fidelio X1 |

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfall View Post
    I appreciate all the advice everyone. Do big box stores let you return AVR's for any reason within a few days?
    Most do. You'll have to check with the store on restocking fees to be sure though.
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Essence Audio HDACC, Douglas IC's, Douglas Alpha bi-wire SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

  25. #25

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    You won't be returning an SC...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Monoblocks, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds, Dodd Audio MLP, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Peachtree I-DAC, Oppo BDP-93, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable, with Sumiko BPS EVOIII, Pioneer PDD 9MkII SACD Player, SimAudio moon 110lp phono preamplifier

    "The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Brad Shurett

  26. #26

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    ...and the money saving begins.
    |Fronts - Peerless RTA-12B | Center(s) - Peerless Monitor 5 | Rears - Peerless Monitor 4 |
    |Amp for fronts - Yamaha CA-1010 | Preamp (and amp for center/rears) - RX-V667 |
    |TV - Philips 46" Smart LED | Gaming - Xbox One - Xbox 360 | Headphones - Philips Fidelio X1 |

  27. #27

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    Here is an example, The BB Denver West location has an excellent condition open box Elite SC-63 for $688.99. Also, there is an Elite SC-05 on the Denver CL for $400. The Oppo 103's are on eBay for $500-$600. For $1000-$1200 you can take it to the next level!
    FAMILY ROOM
    TV - Mitsubishi WD-73734 73" DLP 1080P | AVR - Onkyo TX-NR3008 | Source - Sony PS3 Slim 320GB | Front - PolkAudio RT3000p | Center -PolkAudio CS400i | Surround - PolkAudio F/X1000 | Sub - DIY Stereo Integrity HT 15 | Sub Amp - Behringer EUROPOWER EP2500

    2 Ch Dreaming...hoping to purchase, build someday???
    OPPO 105 | Cary or Rogue Audio tube Preamp | Parasound HALO A21 amp | DIY Mini Statements towers

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