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  1. #31

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    Let it go to EBAY arbitration. IIRC, he can't leave feedback until after EBAY rules. I had the same thing happen to me with a tube a long time ago. I was on your stylus's guys end as the buyer. The tube blew within the first couple hours of a perfectly functioning amp.

    I simply opened a complaint with EBAY after trying to work something out with the seller. He was insanely unreasonable and fowl mouthed, etc. Ebay gathered each side of the story as well as the inappropriate and lewd emails he sent me and ruled in my favor. They also erased the negative feedback he left. This was about 6-7 years ago and the feedback system was different.

    I guess what I'm saying is for $23 just give in to protect your seller rating or if you feel you have a strong case and things were spelled out very clearly in the auction, take it to EBAY and then abide by what they decide. Based on the facts you've presented I think you have a strong case, but EBAY has shifted to supporting the buyer more than ever, and my experience above is based on the old EBAY where buyer and seller were more or less equal.

    Good luck

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moose68Bash View Post
    2) Leave the buyer negative feedback on eBay and tell the absolute truth about your reasons for doing so. This will forewarn future sellers of the possibility that this seller is not trustworthy with respect to honoring the strict terms of transactions.

    Sellers can't leave negative F/B for buyers anymore on eBay, only positive or nothing at all. They changed the rules on this quite a while ago because lots of sellers were leaving retaliatory negative F/B after receiving justified negative F/B from the buyer.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by heiney9 View Post
    ...EBAY has shifted to supporting the buyer more than ever, and my experience above is based on the old EBAY where buyer and seller were more or less equal.

    Good luck

    H9
    Yes, some of these changes at eBay have allowed inexperienced and/or unconcerned buyers to leave negative F/B for the smallest of issues on a purchase without giving it a second thought. This only plays in eBay's favor because they then can jack the fees they charge said seller.

  4. #34

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    Ebay gives the buyer 45 days after payment to file a claim for item not received, or not as described. You can claim a 14 day money back guarantee in your ad, but there is really no point, Ebay makes the rules for you.

    Is he just asking, or did he file a claim? If he filed a claim, you will end up refunding his money.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by teekay0007 View Post
    I'd tell PFB to stop bidding on my chit!!
    HaHA
    humpty dumpty was pushed

  6. #36

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    I now see from looking at this fellows feedback that he bought another different brand NOS quad shibata stylus the very same day from someone else. What I am starting to think now is he bought both of them decided to try them both out for as long as he could then return the one he liked the sound of the least knowing full well that 99% of sellers are not going to risk a negative feedback over a $20.00 item.



    REGARDS SNOW
    Last edited by snow; 08-31-2013 at 09:49 PM.
    Well, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all :D

  7. #37

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    With how crappy EBay is I would bet he will take the refund and then keep the item too. Happens more then people talk about. My friend sold a item a few months later the guy said not as described and they just pulled the funds out of his account without warning. Look at how long they hold funds now too.

    Yep no thanks. Good luck.
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  8. #38

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    Tell him to screw off. I think you are handleing it the right way.
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  9. #39

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    Again, I wouldn't give him a refund. He passed the refund time period, period. If he bought another tone arm of the same kind, that right there shows you that something isn't right with asking for a refund. He may send you the other one he bought instead of the NOS one you sent him. Your instinct is correct. Don't give in to his request.
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:

    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

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  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by headrott View Post
    Again, I wouldn't give him a refund. He passed the refund time period, period.
    No he didn't. Read Ebay's rules on selling, he has 45 days. Doesn't matter what you write in your listing.

    http://pages.ebay.com/buyerprotection/sellerFAQ/

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by snow View Post
    From a business standpoint it would be wise to simply refund his money and move on, a couple of mouse clicks and it's over. From a personal standpoint it is worth it to me to take the risk of the negative feedback and still having to pay him back too. I guess i'm just a stubborn bastard who is not very smart.

    REGARDS SNOW
    I was just going to said pretty much exactly that. Do you really want to risk a small amount of $ to ruin your feedback because of some a-hole?

  12. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phasewolf View Post
    With how crappy EBay is I would bet he will take the refund and then keep the item too. Happens more then people talk about. My friend sold a item a few months later the guy said not as described and they just pulled the funds out of his account without warning. Look at how long they hold funds now too.

    Yep no thanks. Good luck.
    Weird. Usually paypal requires the proof that item was shipped back to the seller before refunding the money to that buyer.

  13. #43

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    I would refund his money tell him to keep it, put him on your block bidder list, start offering a shorter return policy.
    You run in to idiots from time to time that are just trying to get over on you.
    Ebay customer support in my opinion is worthless, they will tell and promise you anything just to get off the phone with you (I'm still waiting for them to remove a neg relating to import fees I received a couple months back).




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  14. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwh View Post
    I would refund his money tell him to keep it, put him on your block bidder list, start offering a shorter return policy.
    You run in to idiots from time to time that are just trying to get over on you.
    Ebay customer support in my opinion is worthless, they will tell and promise you anything just to get off the phone with you (I'm still waiting for them to remove a neg relating to import fees I received a couple months back).




    G
    He can't make the return period shorter, as already linked:

    http://pages.ebay.com/buyerprotection/sellerFAQ/

    As far as getting a negative removed, did you pay the $20? Still might not be removed, they rarely ever remove feedback:

    http://www.ebay.com/gds/How-to-Get-N...4887127/g.html

    Amazing how many people buy and sell on Ebay without ever knowing how it works, or in many cases, doesn't work.

  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamM2 View Post
    He can't make the return period shorter, as already linked:

    http://pages.ebay.com/buyerprotection/sellerFAQ/

    As far as getting a negative removed, did you pay the $20? Still might not be removed, they rarely ever remove feedback:

    http://www.ebay.com/gds/How-to-Get-N...4887127/g.html

    Amazing how many people buy and sell on Ebay without ever knowing how it works, or in many cases, doesn't work.
    Yes, the buyer (or seller) has the option to open a case with ebay within 45 days. This IS NOT a no questions asked refund, however. It is not the same as a 14 day "no questions asked refund". Ebay must rule in favor of the buyer to receive a refund. This is not guaranteed as is the 14 day refund policy.The buyer passed this refund time period, period. Get it now?
    Last edited by headrott; 09-01-2013 at 02:52 PM.
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:

    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee

  16. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperZ View Post
    I was just going to said pretty much exactly that. Do you really want to risk a small amount of $ to ruin your feedback because of some a-hole?
    Yes yes I do.

    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamM2 View Post
    He can't make the return period shorter, as already linked:

    http://pages.ebay.com/buyerprotection/sellerFAQ/

    As far as getting a negative removed, did you pay the $20? Still might not be removed, they rarely ever remove feedback:

    http://www.ebay.com/gds/How-to-Get-N...4887127/g.html

    Amazing how many people buy and sell on Ebay without ever knowing how it works, or in many cases, doesn't work.
    No I did not refund a cent.

    Quote Originally Posted by headrott View Post
    Yes, the buyer (or seller) has the option to open a case with ebay within 45 days. This IS NOT a no questions asked refund, however. It is not the same as a 14 day "no questions asked refund". Ebay must rule in favor of the buyer to receive a refund. This is not guaranteed as is the 14 day refund policy.The buyer passed this refund time period, period. Get it now?
    Agreed the 45 day policy on a significantly not as described item is separate from my 14 day no questions asked warranty.


    I suppose what gets my goat is the fact he waited 44 days after the sale one day before what i'm certain he felt the deadline was for a refund that bothers me.

    The fact he bought a second stylus of a different brand the very same day shows a very likely motive as to why he waited so long to return and premeditation the planning beforehand to return one of these.

    For these reasons I feel used and this bothers me, I am aware there are people out there who do this type of thing that will go to a retail store such as WalMart Sams Club and the like and purchase the latest greatest electronic items Laptops flat screen TV's Cell Phones etc and wait till the very last day before returning it then go purchase another one somewhere else with the same intentions of using it for as long as possible then returning it, always having the latest technology and never having to actually be concerned about it breaking or being out any cash.

    I truly believe this fellow is doing the same thing, If he had not waited 44 days after the sale before filing a claim I would likely just simply refund his money and move on without a fight, the money part does not bother me in the slightest $25.00 barely buys a large pizza where I live at even the fact that I can no longer re sell this if returned does not bother me, I simply do not like being played and I think this fellow is doing exactly that, heck if he had filed a claim 41 days even after I would have refunded his money without a fuss but to wait till the last possible moment to do so shows along with the purchase of another like stylus full intent on using me so screw him, if he wants his money back he will have to fight for it I am almost 100% certain to lose this case but I am such a stubborn bastard I refuse to just roll over and take an anal pounding without a fight even if it costs me a negative feedback and a increase in seller fees.To do so would only send to Ebay a clear message that it's ok to screw the seller and we will will just grin and bear it. I have no idea whether or not if enough sellers fight these type of claims whether things will change but I do know if no one does then they will continue on without a change in policy.



    REGARDS SNOW
    Last edited by snow; 09-01-2013 at 03:05 PM.
    Well, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all :D

  17. #47

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    The Ebay arbitrators aren't stupid and while the rules are slanted in the buyers favor, I think you have a good shot at winning if he lodges a formal complaint. The main reason for the 45 days is to give the buyer and seller ample time to work something out should there be an issue. They will see his only communication was before the very last day. In other words he made no effort to remedy the situation until the time almost expired. I believe Ebay will see this and realize it's an attempt to circumvent the system and deny him a favorable. Otherwise this would go on all the time. Ebay needs sellers as much as they need the buyers.

    It would be different if he could supply them with email correspondence of his good will efforts to resolve the problem, but he can't because he waited until the last possible moment to complain when he clearly has had 44 days.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30; Eastern Electric Mini Max; Adcom GDA600; MIT S3/Z Pc; SDA 1C; Squeezebox; Tubes add soul!

  18. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by headrott View Post
    Yes, the buyer (or seller) has the option to open a case with ebay within 45 days. This IS NOT a no questions asked refund, however. It is not the same as a 14 day "no questions asked refund". Ebay must rule in favor of the buyer to receive a refund. This is not guaranteed as is the 14 day refund policy.The buyer passed this refund time period, period. Get it now?
    Yes, I get it. The buyer has 45 days to file a claim, you can't change that. And if Ebay doesn't rule in his favor, he can still do a charge back if he funded PayPal with a credit card, which most scammers do. He'd be better off to agree to refund, and save the negative feedback. Plus the seller will have to ship the item back.

    Now do you get it?

  19. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamM2 View Post
    Yes, I get it. The buyer has 45 days to file a claim, you can't change that. And if Ebay doesn't rule in his favor, he can still do a charge back if he funded PayPal with a credit card, which most scammers do. He'd be better off to agree to refund, and save the negative feedback. Plus the seller will have to ship the item back.

    Now do you get it?
    No one wants a negative feedback, I certainly don't. The fact remains to me it is worth the risk of getting one in order to not allow a scammer to take advantage of me without a fight. Fighting this is the right thing to do from an ethical standpoint which to me is worth more than a negative or having to eventually refund his money, if I lose oh well at least I fought rather than just spreading my cheeks apart with both hands and whispering in his ear have a good time enjoy.


    REGARDS SNOW
    Well, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all :D

  20. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by snow View Post
    No one wants a negative feedback, I certainly don't. The fact remains to me it is worth the risk of getting one in order to not allow a scammer to take advantage of me without a fight. Fighting this is the right thing to do from an ethical standpoint which to me is worth more than a negative or having to eventually refund his money, if I lose oh well at least I fought rather than just spreading my cheeks apart with both hands and whispering in his ear have a good time enjoy.


    REGARDS SNOW
    I agree completely on principal. I had a buyer scam me on a PC power supply last fall.

    First, he hadn't paid after two weeks and never responded to any messages, so I filed a non-paying bidder claim with Ebay. He then waited until the final moment and paid. So I sent the item. He then messages me through Ebay to leave him positive feedback to "complete" the transaction, or he will leave me a negative, and file an item not as described claim (feedback extortion is against the rules). I told him that the transaction was complete, and there would be no feedback.

    He then did just as he promised. So I send all the mesages to Ebay, and they rule in my favor. Then he just did a charge back, so I was still out $21. I did get lucky on the feedback, a couple weeks later his account was suspended, so Ebay removed the negative.

    If I had it to do over, I wouldn't bother.

  21. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamM2 View Post
    Yes, I get it. The buyer has 45 days to file a claim, you can't change that. And if Ebay doesn't rule in his favor, he can still do a charge back if he funded PayPal with a credit card, which most scammers do. He'd be better off to agree to refund, and save the negative feedback. Plus the seller will have to ship the item back.

    Now do you get it?
    I understand everything you are saying. I still wouldn't do a refund and if it comes to it, take the negative feedback instead of bending over and taking up the a$$ because of a scammer. It would be absolutely better to take the chance of ebay ruling in SNOW's favor and not issuing a refund than giving this (and many more) scammer(s) the incentive to scam more people. Understand that?? We are not talking about botched rules and their effects, but what is the correct thing to do. Do you understand that?

    Of course, SNOW has to make up his own mind to do what he thinks is best. I know what I would do.........
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:

    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee

  22. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by snow View Post
    No one wants a negative feedback, I certainly don't. The fact remains to me it is worth the risk of getting one in order to not allow a scammer to take advantage of me without a fight. Fighting this is the right thing to do from an ethical standpoint which to me is worth more than a negative or having to eventually refund his money, if I lose oh well at least I fought rather than just spreading my cheeks apart with both hands and whispering in his ear have a good time enjoy.


    REGARDS SNOW
    Exactly SNOW. You are spot on........
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:

    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee

  23. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by headrott View Post
    I understand everything you are saying. I still wouldn't do a refund and if it comes to it, take the negative feedback instead of bending over and taking up the a$$ because of a scammer. It would be absolutely better to take the chance of ebay ruling in SNOW's favor and not issuing a refund than giving this (and many more) scammer(s) the incentive to scam more people. Understand that?? We are not talking about botched rules and their effects, but what is the correct thing to do. Do you understand that?

    Of course, SNOW has to make up his own mind to do what he thinks is best. I know what I would do.........
    Finally someone gets it!! I have asked about this issue in several different forums and for the most part people tend to think the smart thing thing to do is just give up without a whimper, refund his money apologize to him for selling a bad stylus hope and pray he forgives this travesty of justice and does not leave me a negative.

    I agree that the odds are against me and I agree the smart thing to do would be just refund his money chalk it up to a loss as part of doing business.


    However I also feel that the easy way out is not always the right way, as a rule I treat my customers on Ebay and off with great respect trust and good will, I try to be truthful in my description of an item for sale pointing out any flaws, answer any questions truthfully and quickly, overpack for a safe trip, email or PM with a tracking number as soon as I ship and ship as quickly as possible, in other words I treat them like I would want someone to treat me.

    I have refunded money back to customers both on Ebay and the various forums before and I am sure I will in the future, if there is any real plausible chance you are telling me the truth when you ask for a refund I will almost certainly refund your money , if you ask for a refund within a refund period I will refund your money no questions asked, you don't need a reason it could be your wife did not approve it could be the wrong color it could be it did not sound or look as good as you thought it might, I will refund your money for two reasons I want you to know that if you purchase something from me I will take care of you and will hopefully buy again in the future because you were treated right secondly I want you to be happy with your purchase if your not happy send it back within a reasonable time and we are as good as gold.

    However if I feel you are using me we will have problems, in this case I feel I was being played and it does not sit well with me, this fellow had 14 days to send back no questions asked, he failed to do so, on the very last day possible to file a claim he does so and comes up with this pure BS story about having been unhappy all this time but by pure magical happenstance bought a microscope on the 44th day and discovered the problem, if he really expects me to believe this he is truly delusional.

    Anyways I have all ready sent him a note explaining that I was denying the refund, here was his response and my reply back to him so we will see how this plays out.


    as you can see he is not very happy, but most liars when caught are not they usually scream the loudest in fact.



    Buyer's message:
    "I explained that I just looked at it under a microscope that I just bought. There is no sign of wear, just a totally bad manufacturing job. Do a search like I did of Recoton styli. They are hit or miss, mostly miss. Why don't you take this piece of junk back and sell it for $29 like you did with the other Recoton styli? This is NOT quad!"


    My reply:
    The simple fact of the matter is that you kept this stylus for 44 days without so much as a word that you were having problems with it, if you had problems with it or did not like the sound you could have returned this within 14 days without any questions. The fact you purchased another quad shibata stylus of a different brand the same day you bought this one coupled with the fact you kept it one day shy of the 45 day limit on filing a claim clearly shows you intended to return one of these after the purchase. If you expect me to believe the story about you getting a microscope one day before the time ran out to file a claim you are sadly mistaken. If you wish continue to fight this and you will lose guaranteed, the Ebay arbitrators that do these cases are not stupid and neither am I.




    REGARDS SNOW
    Last edited by snow; 09-02-2013 at 04:15 AM.
    Well, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all :D

  24. #54

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    I can't wait for his response....LOL
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  25. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    I can't wait for his response....LOL
    Well he will either be very vocal in his indignation of being treated so poorly as a customer or he will simply realize the jig is up and go away never to be heard from again. I am betting he just goes away now that he has discovered I am onto his game, he was without a doubt thinking I would do what everyone else has simply refund his money without a fight.



    REGARDS SNOW
    Well, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all :D

  26. #56

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    Do a search like I did of Recoton styli. They are hit or miss, mostly miss. Why don't you take this piece of junk back and sell it for $29 like you did with the other Recoton styli?
    So, what he's saying is that he didn't do his homework before he bought it and now has buyers remorse.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  27. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    So, what he's saying is that he didn't do his homework before he bought it and now has buyers remorse.
    I think the only thing he is remorseful about is the fact I did not just roll over and refund his money. What he wrote is just another work of fiction the fact is that most Recoton styli are not bad if this were the case they would not have been in business for many years and considering how many Recoton styli I have sold his is the only complaint verifies this. I honestly believe that there is nothing wrong with this stylus other than he likes the other brand one more that he bought the same day he bought this one, if there were truly something wrong with it he would have returned it within the 14 day warranty period, he just believed he could get away with keeping it and using it for 44 days before returning it, there is a zero percent chance that he somehow magically bought a microscope on the very same day he had to file a claim 44 days later, just the fact he thinks someone is going to buy this fairy tale speaks volumes for how confident he was that I would like everyone else he has scammed in the past would just give in without a fight.


    REGARDS SNOW
    Well, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all :D

  28. #58

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    I just bought an electron scanning microscope and checked the AT stylus I got from you not long ago. It is pointy in the right places and tracks the groove in the vinyl. But it looks strange magnified that highly so it must be bad....I'd like a refund.

    Years back I sold all my manual focus Canon FD lenses on ebay. One fellow complained saying he had the 50f1.2 I sold him tested and it had excess aberrations, wanted price reduced or refund. I asked for proof, never got it. No slide, no print of the test target.
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  29. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by SCompRacer View Post
    I just bought an electron scanning microscope and checked the AT stylus I got from you not long ago. It is pointy in the right places and tracks the groove in the vinyl. But it looks strange magnified that highly so it must be bad....I'd like a refund.

    Years back I sold all my manual focus Canon FD lenses on ebay. One fellow complained saying he had the 50f1.2 I sold him tested and it had excess aberrations, wanted price reduced or refund. I asked for proof, never got it. No slide, no print of the test target.
    Rich, are you sure you are using that electon scanning microscope correctly? I mean, how long have you owned this electron microscope? Were you trained to use it? My brother can help you out if you need someone trained to use it correctly. Maybe that's why the stylus looks strange? You were never trained to use said microscope? I would ask for a refund on that electron microscope.
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  30. #60

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    Snow, it would have been so much easier to just give in to this putz - as you said, just a couple of clicks with the mouse - and simply give him a refund. I mean, big deal, it is all over a mere $23. And look at all the frustration, anguish, time and effort this has ultimately caused and cost you. In the end, it may even cost you by way of your reputation as an eBay seller via negative F/B from a scamming "buyer". Well, I must say, it is so very refreshing to have read through this thread and to be reassured that there still are people of high integrity out there that don't take the easy route when the much more difficult one is the right one to take. I'm glad to see you are fighting for what is right and my hat is off to you for doing so. There just aren't enough people like you in this world anymore. I hope eBay puts in the effort to really evaluate this issue properly and steps up and does the right thing in backing you as this plays out.

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