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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by teekay0007 View Post
    Snow, it would have been so much easier to just give in to this putz - as you said, just a couple of clicks with the mouse - and simply give him a refund. I mean, big deal, it is all over a mere $23. And look at all the frustration, anguish, time and effort this has ultimately caused and cost you. In the end, it may even cost you by way of your reputation as an eBay seller via negative F/B from a scamming "buyer". Well, I must say, it is so very refreshing to have read through this thread and to be reassured that there still are people of high integrity out there that don't take the easy route when the much more difficult one is the right one to take. I'm glad to see you are fighting for what is right and my hat is off to you for doing so. There just aren't enough people like you in this world anymore. I hope eBay puts in the effort to really evaluate this issue properly and steps up and does the right thing in backing you as this plays out.
    He was simply counting on the fact that 99.9% of all sellers would not risk a negative feedback for such a low value item and simply issue the refund and it would have been a risk free and easy way out but I believe that taking the easy way out is not always the right thing to do and half the problems this country faces today is due to people doing just that taking the easy way out IMHO.


    I do not think I will lose this case if it goes to arbitration for the following reasons, He has not responded back yet to my reply and I do not think he will because he realizes that his fairy tale of a story about buying a microscope on the 44th day and discovering the problem coupled with the fact he knows that I know he bought a different brand stylus of the same type the very same day is going to present problems for him if he continues, He even states I should resell it to another buyer after getting it back, this indicates there is nothing wrong with the stylus itself just that he did not like the sound of it as much as he does the other one he bought the same day.

    Not sure he realizes that him stating the item was indeed new and showed no signs of wear hurts his case rather than helps it. I never claimed in my listing that it was going to sound good or even be without manufacturing problems, I only claimed it was NOS. Hence it is as described.


    This is why there is a 14 day no questions asked warranty on these types of items so if there is a manufacturing problem or other issue a buyer can return it without risk or concern. I don't test these out with a cartridge and TT because if I did they would no longer be NOS but lightly used.



    REGARDS SNOW
    Last edited by snow; 09-03-2013 at 04:07 PM.
    Well, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all :D

  2. #62

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    BRAVO!!!

    I will share your valiant tale with my son tonight at bedtime, and every night following. Finally, someone to stand up to the wrongs in the world and fight for what is right!






    In all seriousness, I commend you for your stance and holding your ground through the process. My wife processes bankruptcies and it annoys the crap out of me that people who drive brand new $80,000 Merecedes file bankruptcy and get to keep the car because its "necessary transportation". Nobody is held accountable for their actions anymore.
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Essence Audio HDACC, Douglas IC's, Douglas Alpha bi-wire SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSkip View Post
    BRAVO!!!

    I will share your valiant tale with my son tonight at bedtime, and every night following. Finally, someone to stand up to the wrongs in the world and fight for what is right!






    In all seriousness, I commend you for your stance and holding your ground through the process. My wife processes bankruptcies and it annoys the crap out of me that people who drive brand new $80,000 Merecedes file bankruptcy and get to keep the car because its "necessary transportation". Nobody is held accountable for their actions anymore.
    Lmao well I don't feel I am sort of hero for doing the right thing by any means but I do believe that it is something we all should strive to do more of. As I get older the things that are important to me are not about what will I stand to gain or lose as much as it is knowing I did the right thing even if it costs me, I think it is similar to finding a wallet full of cash and credit cards the right thing to do would be return it as found with all the cash intact, the smart thing to do might be to return just the wallet and credit cards and keep the cash right? I mean who would know right? Well I would know and it would bother me so if I find one I return it as is and I have found a few like this and returned them intact as found to their owners.

    I sleep better at night and have fewer regrets living my life in this manner, in the grand scheme of things it may not matter much but it means a lot to me. Knowing that some scammer was not able to get over on yet another person is a bonus too.


    REGARDS SNOW
    Last edited by snow; 09-03-2013 at 04:44 PM.
    Well, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all :D

  4. #64

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    How 'bout an update on this, snow. Did you ever hear from this D-bag again?

  5. #65

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    imo. I could see refunding the buyer if he had contacted you no later than mid august. but its the latter part of September! no way should he get a refund!

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by teekay0007 View Post
    How 'bout an update on this, snow. Did you ever hear from this D-bag again?
    No not a word from him since, he has till the 29th of this month to escalate the case to a hearing but I think he realized he was not going to win this one and has gave up.


    REGARDS SNOW
    Well, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all :D

  7. #67

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    sometimes selling items on e bay can be a pain!!!

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by snow View Post
    No not a word from him since, he has till the 29th of this month to escalate the case to a hearing but I think he realized he was not going to win this one and has gave up.
    Good on you, snow, for putting in the effort and doing the right thing. I can only hope your "buyer" learned a little something here, but sadly I'm not counting on it. Seems like all too often this kind of person just moves on to the next unsuspecting soul without another thought about it. Well, maybe with karma being what it's supposed to be, he'll try to resell the item and get a few headaches from his buyer.

  9. #69

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    Snow, I'm glad to see that he didn't escalate. I think you are probably safe from a claim at this point, but, but I think you are naive to think that Ebay would have sided with you. Regardless of the timing, or the fact that he bought another, Ebay sides with the seller almost every time, even in the face of obvious buyers remorse.

    Example: Last year, I sold my Onkyo SR805 on Ebay. It had one of the HDMI inputs failing. It was stated clearly that this was a problem, but the receiver worked perfect otherwise. I had at least 10 closeup photos including one of the rear serial tag showing "Manufacturer Refurbished". I packed it in typical bombproof manner, shipped the 60lb receiver at no small cost. Two days after receiving the package, the buyer emails me some broken English message saying the receiver is refurbished. I replied and asked if there was a problem? Damage? Anything not working according to description? Reply was simply that item is refurbished, wants to partial refund because it might fail sooner. I said send it back, I will refund minus my actual shipping cost. He did not want to loose out on shipping.

    Bottom line, we went back and forth several times, I pointed out that the item was a 5 year old used item, refurbished made no difference in value at this time. He didn't care. He filed claim. What the eff? It was clearly shown as refurb in photos, the buyer never said once that the item didn't work according to description. Simply that it was refurbished, not used. In the little pull-down tab when you list, you have to choose between new, used, refurbished, new other, etc. I had selected Used. He claimed it should have said refurbished. I thought no, I did not refurbish this, that would mean the item has been restored to factory condition. It was not, it was used, with faults listed. A refurb would actually be worth more! I thought for sure Ebay would side with me and that it was clear buyers remorse. After only 1 day, Ebay sided with the buyer. They even gave him a free shipping label to send it back. I would be out fees, plus shipping and who knows what damage he have done to my otherwise perfect SR805.

    I sat waiting for the receiver to be returned for a damn month. The tracking never showed any movement. The buyer claimed he sent it off. He was full of BS. He kept it, never shipped it back even though he had a free shipping label. After a month, Ebay saw that the item was never delivered back to me and closed the case in my favor. Of course, the buyer left negative feedback on my otherwise perfect 10 year Ebay selling history.

    Although I escaped this ordeal without having to refund for what was obviously buyers remorse, it was a major drain, my paypal was frozen for over a month, and my previously flawless feedback is marred. I am still amazed that Ebay sided with the buyer on this one, and since then, I have been extremely leery of selling on Ebay. Now I only go to Ebay as a last resort for items that otherwise won't sell on the forums or craigslist.

    BTW, the buyer of my SR805 has left more than 10 negative feedbacks for other sellers in the last year. Beware of buyers like this guy: http://www.ebay.com/usr/trish**t

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by billbillw View Post
    Snow, I'm glad to see that he didn't escalate. I think you are probably safe from a claim at this point, but, but I think you are naive to think that Ebay would have sided with you. Regardless of the timing, or the fact that he bought another, Ebay sides with the seller almost every time, even in the face of obvious buyers remorse.

    Example: Last year, I sold my Onkyo SR805 on Ebay. It had one of the HDMI inputs failing. It was stated clearly that this was a problem, but the receiver worked perfect otherwise. I had at least 10 closeup photos including one of the rear serial tag showing "Manufacturer Refurbished". I packed it in typical bombproof manner, shipped the 60lb receiver at no small cost. Two days after receiving the package, the buyer emails me some broken English message saying the receiver is refurbished. I replied and asked if there was a problem? Damage? Anything not working according to description? Reply was simply that item is refurbished, wants to partial refund because it might fail sooner. I said send it back, I will refund minus my actual shipping cost. He did not want to loose out on shipping.

    Bottom line, we went back and forth several times, I pointed out that the item was a 5 year old used item, refurbished made no difference in value at this time. He didn't care. He filed claim. What the eff? It was clearly shown as refurb in photos, the buyer never said once that the item didn't work according to description. Simply that it was refurbished, not used. In the little pull-down tab when you list, you have to choose between new, used, refurbished, new other, etc. I had selected Used. He claimed it should have said refurbished. I thought no, I did not refurbish this, that would mean the item has been restored to factory condition. It was not, it was used, with faults listed. A refurb would actually be worth more! I thought for sure Ebay would side with me and that it was clear buyers remorse. After only 1 day, Ebay sided with the buyer. They even gave him a free shipping label to send it back. I would be out fees, plus shipping and who knows what damage he have done to my otherwise perfect SR805.

    I sat waiting for the receiver to be returned for a damn month. The tracking never showed any movement. The buyer claimed he sent it off. He was full of BS. He kept it, never shipped it back even though he had a free shipping label. After a month, Ebay saw that the item was never delivered back to me and closed the case in my favor. Of course, the buyer left negative feedback on my otherwise perfect 10 year Ebay selling history.

    Although I escaped this ordeal without having to refund for what was obviously buyers remorse, it was a major drain, my paypal was frozen for over a month, and my previously flawless feedback is marred. I am still amazed that Ebay sided with the buyer on this one, and since then, I have been extremely leery of selling on Ebay. Now I only go to Ebay as a last resort for items that otherwise won't sell on the forums or craigslist.

    BTW, the buyer of my SR805 has left more than 10 negative feedbacks for other sellers in the last year. Beware of buyers like this guy: http://www.ebay.com/usr/trish**t
    Not sure how or why you came to the conclusion I am naive regarding the odds of Ebay siding with the buyer in a case that has been escalated. I have said this repeatedly throughout this thread. However now that the buyer has admitted that the item purchased was indeed NOS and showed no signs of wear and even went so far as to suggest that I resell it to another customer after accepting a return clearly shows that there is indeed nothing wrong with this stylus, his story of having used it for 44 days them magically buying a microscope on the 45th day and discovering the problem is obviously crap coupled with the fact that he bought another stylus of the same type but different brand clearly shows intent and motive of returning it at the last possible day to file a claim. Ebay arbitrators have seen it all and they are not stupid even a blind man could read between the lines here and see the truth so yes at this point in time if it does get escalated I do think I will win.

    Even if I don't win and have to refund his money no big deal it is only 20 some dollars total not a big loss, it has been more than 60 days so he can no longer leave me negative feedback. Regardless of what happens at this point he has gotten the message that not everyone is going to bend over and just take it with a smile. My whole point of this thread was to show that it is better to do the right thing and fight for what is the right thing regardless of the outcome than take the easy way out, I was perfectly willing to both take a negative and pay back the money in order to do the right thing and fight. Now at this point the worst that can happen is I will have to refund his money and even that is now unlikely IMHO.


    REGARDS SNOW
    Well, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all :D

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by snow View Post
    Not sure how or why you came to the conclusion I am naive regarding the odds of Ebay siding with the buyer in a case that has been escalated....

    REGARDS SNOW
    Because, I'm telling you, none of those facts matters when Ebay looks at these claims. They don't "read between the lines" or anything of the sort. They just side with the buyer. I've seen it myself and from others, over and over.
    Last edited by billbillw; 09-24-2013 at 04:58 PM.

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by billbillw View Post
    Because, I'm telling you, none of that matters when Ebay looks at these claims. They just side with the buyer. I've seen it myself and from others, over and over.
    So your saying in essence that Ebay has never sided with a seller no matter what the evidence was? I am well aware that most cases opened get decided in favor of the buyer as I stated many times in this thread. I have also pointed out the fact that to me it did not matter whether or not they decided for or against me. How any of this makes me naive is still remains a mystery.


    REGARDS SNOW
    Well, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all :D

  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by billbillw View Post
    Because, I'm telling you, none of those facts matters when Ebay looks at these claims. They don't "read between the lines" or anything of the sort. They just side with the buyer. I've seen it myself and from others, over and over.
    I guess I'm very surprised EBAY allowed him to post a negative after siding with him and then being able to see he did not follow through. I had a guy that I escalated up and deserved a very negative feedback I left it he complained they (ebay) removed it. That is why the 100% ratings mean absolutely NOTHING.... you as a seller can't leave negative feedback even when you are getting screwed and ebay knows it and proved it. You have 2 options positive or none as far as feedback goes. It all went downhill when they took away the sellers right to leave a negative feedback to let others know that person is a scammer and the 5 star rating is just such a joke.

  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by pitdogg2 View Post
    I guess I'm very surprised EBAY allowed him to post a negative after siding with him and then being able to see he did not follow through. I had a guy that I escalated up and deserved a very negative feedback I left it he complained they (ebay) removed it. That is why the 100% ratings mean absolutely NOTHING.... you as a seller can't leave negative feedback even when you are getting screwed and ebay knows it and proved it. You have 2 options positive or none as far as feedback goes. It all went downhill when they took away the sellers right to leave a negative feedback to let others know that person is a scammer and the 5 star rating is just such a joke.
    Ebay will also remove a negative feedback left by the buyer if it is unwarranted, in the case of billbillw Ebay would have removed the negative feedback left by the buyer if asked.


    REGARDS SNOW
    Well, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all :D

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by snow View Post
    Ebay will also remove a negative feedback left by the buyer if it is unwarranted, in the case of billbillw Ebay would have removed the negative feedback left by the buyer if asked.


    REGARDS SNOW
    Nope. I asked, two or three times to remove the negative. Ebay would not remove it. It has to be a gross abuse of eBay policy for them to remove feedback.

  16. #76

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    Default What would I do?

    I'd take that deal in crawfish then drill that 'ol devil in the arse.

  17. #77

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    UPDATE: Ok a decision has been reached by Ebay.


    eBay Customer Support has refunded the buyer and the case is closed. Sep 29, 2013 at 6:12 AM

    eBay Customer Support comments:

    "eBay has decided to refund the buyer. You are not required to reimburse the buyer or eBay, and this case will not be counted in your seller performance evaluation."

    Final decision:
    You were not found at fault.

    It appears that Ebay has decided to refund the buyer from their own funds and he is not allowed to leave me a negative feedback and since I was found not at fault it will not affect my seller status.


    REGARDS SNOW
    Well, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all :D

  18. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by snow View Post
    UPDATE: Ok a decision has been reached by Ebay.


    eBay Customer Support has refunded the buyer and the case is closed. Sep 29, 2013 at 6:12 AM

    eBay Customer Support comments:

    "eBay has decided to refund the buyer. You are not required to reimburse the buyer or eBay, and this case will not be counted in your seller performance evaluation."

    Final decision:
    You were not found at fault.

    It appears that Ebay has decided to refund the buyer from their own funds and he is not allowed to leave me a negative feedback and since I was found not at fault it will not affect my seller status.


    REGARDS SNOW
    That's a big positive outcome for you sir! Congratulations!
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:

    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee

  19. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by headrott View Post
    That's a big positive outcome for you sir! Congratulations!
    Yeah, but I still don't like it. Don't like it at all! Sounds like eBay didn't have the balls to really look at the facts and make a proper decision. Bottom line, the buyer pulled a fast one and walks away unscathed, looking for his next target.

    Also, snow, please tell me the idiot didn't get to keep the stylus too.

  20. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by headrott View Post
    That's a big positive outcome for you sir! Congratulations!
    Thanks.

    REGARDS SNOW

    Quote Originally Posted by teekay0007 View Post
    Yeah, but I still don't like it. Don't like it at all! Sounds like eBay didn't have the balls to really look at the facts and make a proper decision. Bottom line, the buyer pulled a fast one and walks away unscathed, looking for his next target.

    Also, snow, please tell me the idiot didn't get to keep the stylus too.
    Yes it is sad because crime does pay, Ebay paid him back his full costs and he gets to keep the Stylus free of charge.


    REGARDS SNOW
    Well, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all :D

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    At least Ebay didn't pay him back for the microscope he purchased. :|rolleyes:|

    Seriously though, it is rediculous he was paid back and he keeps the stylus. At least it was determined that you were not at fault and you did not have to pay him back. One word for Ebay's actions: appeasement.
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:

    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee

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