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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by RamZet View Post
    What B&Ws are you guys listening too?
    Sounds like you guys all walked into a best buy and demoed the speakers on a pioneer HT receiver being switched through a source selector.

    You need to sit down in a room with a nice Rotel, Krell, Mcintosh, Bryston or B&K amp and listen to some CDs. The way a few select members talk about B&Ws and almost go out of their way to bad talk the company whenever the product is mentioned is insane. What speaker do you think artist like Bob Dylan and Paul Mccartney chose to use in their homes ( and one of them is paid by JBL)?

    I understand if you dont prefer the sound vs another speaker, but to call a speaker of that caliber bad is just nuts and reflects poorly on your judgment. Saying things like "get me ear plugs" and comparing the 800 series to Bose is just borderline trolling.
    I think most people here do not prefer the B&W speakers due to the tweeter. In fact, the tweeters put in the B&W 80XD series are really good and offers extended high frequencies. But this makes the speaker un-listenable for most people who prefers a little laid back sound. The Diamond tweeter is exceptional but needs to roll off a little at the high frequencies for most folks. B&W could easily roll off the top octaves in the XO design but I don't think they do, thus making their speakers sound too bright to most people.

    About BOSE, don't you think it's High End? I always think BOSE is certainly high priced stuff though.
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone.

  2. #32

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    Going back to the topics, I always think the cone material is important but not as important as putting all the parts together right. You need to implement the motor structure, the spider, the surround, the correct magnetic flux density, and at the voice coil size; etc. A carefully made driver will sound great regardless of the cone materials used.

    But the longevity of the speaker is highly based on the cone and the surround so the exotic drivers that cost several hundreds to several thousands should offer improved long term reliability.

    The manufacturer such as Audio Technology uses coated poly cone and they prefer poly cone over the stiffer cone materials.
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by megasat16 View Post
    I think most people here do not prefer the B&W speakers due to the tweeter. In fact, the tweeters put in the B&W 80XD series are really good and offers extended high frequencies. But this makes the speaker un-listenable for most people who prefers a little laid back sound. The Diamond tweeter is exceptional but needs to roll off a little at the high frequencies for most folks. B&W could easily roll off the top octaves in the XO design but I don't think they do, thus making their speakers sound too bright to most people.

    About BOSE, don't you think it's High End? I always think BOSE is certainly high priced stuff though.
    There is some truth in this. If you have what I consider a METAL tweeter that is "unchained", meaning that you don't reign it in, let it deliver everything it can, it will ring and distort like the devil and it DOES. Now, you can take objective measurements that show that it's flat or revealing, but the human "ear" knows "better" and it says, right! Sure it is!

    This is really very much a matter of taste there are a "few" here who like that B&W high end. But most people who are into Polk's best (either the classics) or the new LSi-Ms know what a high end should sound like.

    Have we heard B&W with high end equipment? Of course we have why else would we say it's not our cup of tea? B&W is ubiquitous in East Asia (China and Japan--and probably S. Korea). And when it is displayed and demoed it is ALWAYS with good amplification and sources, hardly BB stuff? Because it is geared toward the HIGH END Asian market. The "average" citizen can't afford it because it costs MORE over there than it does here. Nonetheless almost every good speaker I've encountered over there trounces B&Ws, considering "my" tastes, of course. These are bright speakers. There is no way around that regardless of whether you're running a $500 used Parasound amp or a Krell (which is also "bright" in many instances?) many times that price!

    And why bother with B&W if you don't like it when there are tons of other high end speaker manufacturers that make wonderfully musical speakers?

    OK, that's enough. Suffice it to say I'm not a fan. But that should not stop others from being fans if their ears like this sound. Because my ears are not the ears of God--or the last word in sound. lol

    As a final note, I should add that there is almost NO speaker that I like that uses a Kevlar driver? Not that Kevlar is the problem this is just an observation.

    cnh
    Last edited by cnh; 09-26-2013 at 11:55 AM.
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  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by megasat16 View Post
    About BOSE, don't you think it's High End? I always think BOSE is certainly high priced stuff though.
    C'mon man.....stop for a second. A Bose conversation is what started the Arab spring, look how that turned out. Insert smiley.....

  5. #35

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    This is somewhat true, me being no critic at all was sat down and listened to a burned in pair that I think were B&W 802 Diamonds the 15 k$ speakers. They were powered through a set of McIntosh monblocks and all other Mac sources.Yes for that kind of coin on a set of those Rosewood beauties I thought they sounded amazing, what's musical to you might be harsh or muddy to another and again these were spectacular in both clarity sounstage and presense, not to mention the design themselves.They are in the main room at Hi-DEF of Red Bank N.J. w/ absolutely no affilation or I would have a pair.So again there are people who love the brand,others who could do w/o them and others with money to spend would go for them, like art and music itself your ears are subjective to maybe a fault unless something is so obviously wrong they should not be on the assembly line floor to begin with.Is that exrenally mounted tweeter a good,great idea in design I have no idea.I just liked what I heard and I played tunes that I wanted to hear.

  6. #36

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    My favorite dynamic mid is the kevlar unit from the original 801. The only thing wrong with that driver is the fact that they are almost impossible to find. It doesn't hurt that they put it in an almost ideal acoustical environment and spent years getting the crossover right.

    Kevlar has unique vibration damping characteristics. Early graphite tennis rackets were dramatically improved by the addition of 20% Kevlar to the composite mix to soften the harsh feel of 100 % graphite. Technology has moved on, but those 20% Kevlar rackets from the early 90s are highly coveted by serious players and pros even today. Not to hang on their wall as collector's items, but to play with. My ears and my left arm are both big Kevlar fans.
    Last edited by audiomagnate; 09-26-2013 at 01:03 PM.

  7. #37

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    If that is the reasoning. Where are all the (carbon) graphene drivers? As well as "proof" that this material would actually make a superior driver?

    Graphene is 100 times stronger than steel of the same thickness. It conducts both heat and electricity better than copper, and has outstanding optical and mechanical properties. If it could be produced on an industrial scale, graphene might revolutionize fields such as electronics and even body armor.

    cnh
    Last edited by cnh; 09-26-2013 at 01:28 PM.
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  8. #38

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    Anything less than the Q7 is child's play....


    In all seriousness, "high end" can be a relative term for most. In audio, its more of an absolute term and I don't think anyone (perhaps a few exceptions?) really plays at a "high end" level. I could buy my house twice for what those Q7's cost and I still wouldn't have anything to run them with. Bose is not high end, and for that matter, neither is Polk. I do feel that high end audio is more focused on price tags than performance level, but that's the way it is.

    At any rate, I'll continue to sport my modest system, which I personally consider a higher end system given how I play the game, and be damn proud of it. That is of course using the relative relationship though.



    Edit: From the Absolute Sound: "The drivers are also unique. They feature the Magico-developed NanoTech cone material that is based on carbon nano-tube technology designed for helicopter blades."

    http://www.theabsolutesound.com/arti...7-loudspeaker/
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    Last edited by DSkip; 09-26-2013 at 02:52 PM.
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  9. #39

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    "The drivers are also unique. They feature the Magico-developed NanoTech cone material that is based on carbon nano-tube technology designed for helicopter blades."
    Too bad they couldn't come up with something better than those rather generic casters.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnh View Post
    If that is the reasoning. Where are all the (carbon) graphene drivers? As well as "proof" that this material would actually make a superior driver?

    Graphene is 100 times stronger than steel of the same thickness. It conducts both heat and electricity better than copper, and has outstanding optical and mechanical properties. If it could be produced on an industrial scale, graphene might revolutionize fields such as electronics and even body armor.

    cnh
    JVC has a new headphone with nanotube drivers. It got such rave reviews I imported a pair from Japan. I prefer my HD-600s.

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    Too bad they couldn't come up with something better than those rather generic casters.
    Since there is still plastic on the speakers, they may be loaners, which is why they aren't spiked yet.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

  12. #42

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    Don't ruin my fun, Mike.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    Don't ruin my fun, Mike.
    Somebody is turning green. (insert smiley)

    To be honest, I don't know if they actually offer spikes on those Q7's. They do have actual feet though that aren't casters. I guess it might not matter much considering the things weigh 750 lbs. a piece.
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Essence Audio HDACC, Douglas IC's, Douglas Alpha bi-wire SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

  14. #44

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    Me likes big speakers....Magico .....sign me up, with your wallet. Darn, those are sweeeet !!

  15. #45
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    I'll borrow a phrase from the automotive community that also applies to speakers; there is no replacement for displacement. :)

  16. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by zingo View Post
    I'll borrow a phrase from the automotive community that also applies to speakers; there is no replacement for displacement. :)
    Yup...



    IMG_0126 by mhardy6647, on Flickr

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  17. #47

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    I know this has been discussed years ago, but any listened to wood cone speakers?

    JVC wood cone - (I wanted to listen to these but forgot about them.)
    http://www.jvc.eu/woodcone/

    MW Audio products
    http://w.mawebcenters.com/midwestspe...f-speaker.html
    This kit looks interesting...with the familiar Peerless tweeter:
    http://w.mawebcenters.com/midwestspe...oofer-kit.html


    Voxativ
    http://www.voxativ.com/en/fullrange-drivers/ac-4x/

    Misco Speaker
    http://www.miscospeakers.com/speakers/LC62W-8B
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  18. #48

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    At 750 lbs a piece w/ slabs of solid aluminum at $165,000 and the size of a Smart Car I would consider these to be high end.You think?How deep are those things, and what kind of room would they work in,the're bigger than some show rooms I've been in.

  19. #49

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    If speakers are going to be that big, that expensive and that heavy, why not choose the musical genre you most listen to and the VENUE in which it occurs and then just design your room and equipment to be exact copies of what is used to produce the LIVE music.

    In the case of "rock" you'd have a HUGE wall of sound with so many driver boxes and amps your head would spin. Would dwarf the High End speakers above? lol

    But don't forget to "blow" out your back wall so that the sound does not reverberate endlessly in your far TOO SMALL room?

    cnh
    Last edited by cnh; 09-27-2013 at 03:37 PM.
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  20. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    Don't ruin my fun, Mike.
    Sorry. :D
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

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