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Thread: Cut backs

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb View Post
    The average family of four who once received HC free from their employer will now see a 6-9 thousand dollar swing out of pocket.
    Sorry man but for the past 35yrs none of my healthcare through was EVER FREE....As of Right now today(payday) I have paid over 5500.00 my part from my employer they pay 2/3's so add the shiite up...for a family of 4

  2. #32

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    "So my step son finds out 2 days ago that his hours will be cut to 4 day 7 hour shifts (28 hr per wk) because even public jobs are cutting back due to the new health care bill."

    Sounds like quite a leap to make this connection.

    Maybe if the public sector did more work with less resources, like the private sector has done for years, most municipalities wouldn't be in the boat they are in today.

    Also, how many folks have actually read the health care bill....that is all.

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    A voucher based system, funded by a federal sales tax (likely 6% would be plenty) would be the BEST option, IMO, and would cover 100% EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN, to include the homeless. The voucher system would provide a CHOICE of catestrophic healthcare coverage, from the vendor of your choice. Then, this would open the market of private insurance to COMPETE for YOUR business for supplemental insurance. This also CUTS the tie between employment and coverage. Right now, if you lose your job, you lose your coverage---not so with a voucher based system. The other "cherry on the cake"......everytime an illegal alien makes a purchase in the U.S., they are paying into the "kitty" to help cover cost incurred when they need medical attention.

    Supplemental Health insurance would be purchased like auto insurance. Unsatisfied with your provider? FIRE THEM, and get a policy from another provider. With employment based care, you HAVE to take what they give you. This freedom of choice will drive policy prices down, as we leverage good 'ol COMPETITION.
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  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by rooftop59 View Post
    They didn't have to provide insurance before (but they probably did anyway), now they do, but not for a worker below the threshold. So I agree that if they were already providing benefits to full time but not part time workers, then this move doesn't make much sense...
    Any decent sized city is going to exceed 50 full-time employees by a substantial amount. If they are dropping them to 28/hr now because of this bill, there has to be something in there that is causing that reaction. The fact that its happening in many municipalities is odd too and further proves that it has nothing to do with how many full time/part time employees they have and more to do with something on the horizon. The cut in hours would've happened long before now if that was the issue.
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    Your an exception then, as most corporations as a condition of employment offered HC benefits. Granted they varied in policy coverage but the bar was set at somewhat of a higher standard to attract better employees. Then they moved to cost sharing and started taking a bit out of your check to help offset rising costs. Nothing like what it will be now however. What some still don't get under this new plan is you will be paying more, period, and still it won't cover everything. Your deductibles will be higher too. Also what you can deduct from your taxes will have a higher threshold. It used to be anything over 7.5% of your adjusted gross income in medical bills was deductible, now it's 10%. Lets also not forget the tons of additional taxes on medical equipment, who do you think will brunt those costs ? The end user of course.

    We can do 12 rounds on this subject, as it stands the IRS has lost track of 67 million bucks and the HC law hasn't even started yet. Anyone who thinks government will do a better job with this is sadly mistaken. They can't even deliver the mail within budget, let alone handle something as big as the HC industry. Anyone of you ever been to a VA hospital ? That's what your national HC will become, only worse.

  6. #36

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    The average family of four who once received HC free from their employer will now see a 6-9 thousand dollar swing out of pocket. Only the rich will be able to afford Cadillac policies that once was a staple of corporate benefits.

    Tony this is false. Please direct me to data backing up this claim. My wife's co-worker thought that the new "o-care" would only cost 28 a month whereas she pays much more right now through the university plan and doesn't see how that is. The reality a single women making 25 k a year will pay 158 a month for the silver tier, which is one step up. The invented "facts" that people spout over this issue are just insane, and I think most often the result of too much of a certain news organization.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSkip View Post
    I guess I don't understand how reducing them to part time is a result of this bill? Every benefit of a part-timer stands prior to the bill, so why do it now? I'm sincerely hoping someone can clue me in.
    Simply it's a way to cut cost. If your not (as an employer) required to supply health care benefits to part timers you cut back the full timers hours and or a little creative rescheduling of the pay period and they become part timers and you just saved a bunch of $$$$ by not having any full time employees that you have to supply health insurance or pay overtime (in my day you got overtime for anything over 8 hours a day, now it's done by xx number hours per pay period) if done right. This kind of stuff has been going on in the health care industry for decades, just ask anybody who works in a hospital or nursing home.

    Quote Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
    Glad to see you post again Gimpod! Hope all is well!.
    Thanks man it's good to be posting again (I having a good day :)). As far as being well, That's a whole other thread but I can say depending on how look at it I am getting some really good or bad drugs. :)

    Sorry for the derail.

    Quote Originally Posted by DSkip View Post
    They are required to offer benefits to full time employees, not part time. I don't see how that applies to the city anyways since they surely exceed that limit.
    Quote Originally Posted by rooftop59 View Post
    They didn't have to provide insurance before (but they probably did anyway), now they do, but not for a worker below the threshold. So I agree that if they were already providing benefits to full time but not part time workers, then this move doesn't make much sense...
    Once again it's all about cutting cost.
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveinaz View Post
    The "program" will speak for itself. My Son's hours have also been cut--just as predicted. For someone working just over minimum wage, that's PAINFUL.
    Steve Steve Steve, you know the unions will soon have min. wage at 15.00 an hour, whether businesses can afford it, and whether it will be passed on as more cost to the struggling consumer, who has seen goods and services, as well as every tax, whether explicit or hidden into final costs skyrocket.

    So dont try to act like your son wont be just fine, as soon as the central gestapo,err government and affiliateds get that wrapped up too.
    humpty dumpty was pushed

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by rooftop59 View Post
    The average family of four who once received HC free from their employer will now see a 6-9 thousand dollar swing out of pocket. Only the rich will be able to afford Cadillac policies that once was a staple of corporate benefits.

    Tony this is false. Please direct me to data backing up this claim. My wife's co-worker thought that the new "o-care" would only cost 28 a month whereas she pays much more right now through the university plan and doesn't see how that is. The reality a single women making 25 k a year will pay 158 a month for the silver tier, which is one step up. The invented "facts" that people spout over this issue are just insane, and I think most often the result of too much of a certain news organization.

    Yes.

    If you just don't "watch too much of a certain news organization" everything will be A-OK.
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    By the way, im actually in favor of not for profit healthcare, i have known too many people in the ins. biz, trust me they dont give a damn about you or your health.

    Problem is govt. is even more slimy.

    If they had wanted to actually improve the system as opposed to grab power, one thing they would have done is to allow you to purchase your ins. across state lines, they all said that would be very helpful, and did not include it in final bill.
    humpty dumpty was pushed

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by gimpod View Post
    Simply it's a way to cut cost. If your not (as an employer) required to supply health care benefits to part timers you cut back the full timers hours and or a little creative rescheduling of the pay period and they become part timers and you just saved a bunch of $$$$ by not having any full time employees that you have to supply health insurance or pay overtime (in my day you got overtime for anything over 8 hours a day, now it's done by xx number hours per pay period) if done right. This kind of stuff has been going on in the health care industry for decades, just ask anybody who works in a hospital or nursing home.



    Thanks man it's good to be posting again (I having a good day :)). As far as being well, That's a whole other thread but I can say depending on how look at it I am getting some really good or bad drugs. :)

    Sorry for the derail.

    Once again it's all about cutting cost.
    See post #34. Welcome back, been too long since I've seen your name around these parts.
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  12. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb View Post
    Anyone of you ever been to a VA hospital ? That's what your national HC will become, only worse.
    Have you? Sorry but I have to take offense at this statement. I can't speak for all VA hospitals but the Seattle VA is the best hospital I've ever been to. The doctors, nurses and everybody else I've ever met that works for the VA have been caring and compassionate people who will go out of there way to help you out. In the last 13+ years that I've been going to the VA the only a**holes I've met were other patients.
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  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSkip View Post
    See post #34. Welcome back, been too long since I've seen your name around these parts.
    I think before this bill the government (federal, state, local) were not allowed to cut full timers hours, now the bill allows them to. I'm not sure about this it's just my take on it. I haven't read the bill nor do I feel like spending reading and trying to understand it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by charley95 View Post
    Couldn't agree more with you on this!
    +1 I would say we've been hoodwinked, but if you didn't see this coming.... well ouch ....my tongue
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    Quote Originally Posted by rooftop59 View Post
    Tony this is false.
    My wife's co-worker thought that the new "o-care" would only cost 28 a month whereas she pays much more right now through the university plan and doesn't see how that is. The reality a single women making 25 k a year will pay 158 a month for the silver tier, which is one step up. The invented "facts" that people spout over this issue are just insane, and I think most often the result of too much of a certain news organization.
    Has nothing to do with any one news organization. Here's just one example.

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...ance-Overnight

    Granted, every area will differ some and every situation is also different. I said a family of 4 and you brought up a single persons rates, 2 different ball games. My own corporate sponsored insurance policy that the wife gets just went from 80 bucks a month deducted from the check to 285 bucks. Now we recently got a letter saying it will be 120 more if you smoke. So I know you guys know how do to math, but in my neck of the woods 400 bucks a month is a lot more than the 80 I was paying. Don't tell me it's hogwash because I know first hand.

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    Also there are subsidies involved too if you make under a certain amount of income. There's that evil word again, subsidies. We decry when everyone else gets them, decry that's the reason why government has so little revenue, yet we applaud handing them out to millions of people for this. A tad hypocritical wouldn't you say ? Then on these exchanges too, the lower tiered plans which are also the cheapest limit the doctors you can see. Those doctors will be so backlogged, you'll wait until PFB posts a pic of his Porsche before you see a doc. Not to mention most Doc's will not want to participate in those plans because of the low reimbursements. It's a cluster f%*k no matter how you slice it up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSkip View Post
    They are required to offer benefits to full time employees, not part time. I don't see how that applies to the city anyways since they surely exceed that limit.
    The city exceeds the limit, but not all cities have full benefits and insurance packages, part time went from 32hrs to 28hrs or less.

    Its not a big deal that his dept got the cuts he''l survive, but every employer with 50+ employees that can't afford or are greedy will follow suit.
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    We have pretty decent healthcare with vision and dental, however the cost per month will be $ 150 a month more unless you qualify for the healthy credit of $150 which means no smoking, a normal BMI for your height, decent cholestrol levels and not overly high blood pressure, if you qualify then you recieve the bonus. Fortunatley me and the wife are qualified but, alot of people who are not are upset. Perhaps next year we will all have to be blonde and have blue eyes!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevhed72 View Post
    Sounds like quite a leap to make this connection.
    It was actually stated in the meeting that the city could not afford it, tis the reason for the cut backs by October 1st.
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    Hillary had the best healthcare reform plan, we just didn't realize how good it was at the time. And while there is certainly mis-information that abounds across all of the MSM, there is a huge adjustment in coverage and costs taking place. Some of the costs are not part of the premiums. Changes in what a provider and payer is required to do are also part of the costs. Roll into the ER after getting drunk and doing something stupid, well you might want to read that part of the ACA bill. And full disclosure, I am on the project teams for both a HIE and an EMR initiative.
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    Quote Originally Posted by txcoastal1 View Post
    It was actually stated in the meeting that the city could not afford it, tis the reason for the cut backs by October 1st.
    Of course they can't afford it, neither can businesses especially the small and mid size ones which as we know make up a good chunk of the economy. Lets also no forget that if they were to just absorb those additional costs, they'd have to raise property taxes to gain the revenue. Which again, means you pay for it. Any time you add mandated costs/taxes onto a business, the majority of those costs gets passed down to the consumer or end user if you will. So you may feel good about taxing corporations above and beyond but in the end you'll pay those taxes in the goods and services you buy from them. I'm not an anti-tax guy either. Taxes are a necessity to run the country, we all know that. It's the way the money is appropriated that's out of whack. We have the money to tackle a lot of our issues but lack the will power to prioritize on the important ones. Still, to me the most important question is, and btw I never get an answer to, how much as a percentage should a man or woman's labor be taxed ? Is there a limit ? How much can you keep of what you earn . Throw out a number, include local state and federal taxes. 30-40-70-90% ? That's the more telling question imho anyway.

    Freedom means different things to different people that's for sure. I feel that the more disposable income you have in your pocket coupled with a variety of choices in all things is essential to maintaining those freedoms. Take away both, stifle free speech and what do you have left ?

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    I as a small business owner have cut prices to compete. We're not talking about competing against big big corp, but against each other just to make ends meet. So when is time for us (small business owners) to quit working 70hrs a week and join the entitlement programs and pursue menial jobs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimpod View Post
    Have you? Sorry but I have to take offense at this statement. I can't speak for all VA hospitals but the Seattle VA is the best hospital I've ever been to. The doctors, nurses and everybody else I've ever met that works for the VA have been caring and compassionate people who will go out of there way to help you out. In the last 13+ years that I've been going to the VA the only a**holes I've met were other patients.
    Good to see you posting Tony! I hope all is well with you!

    +1 on the VA hospital. I was with my father many times in the VA hospital as he was a disabled WWII and Korean War Vet. The quality of care and their facilities were very good. He passed away there and the staff grieved with us. They were like family.
    Carl

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    Correct me if I'm wrong here, did I read read somewhere that Muslims are exempt from O-Care?

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    Quote Originally Posted by charley95 View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong here, did I read read somewhere that Muslims are exempt from O-Care?
    I just read that this is true! Islam considers insurance 'gambling' so they are exempt from O-care penalties.

    Don't you guys just love this great country of ours???? If we are Muslim converts are we exempt too?

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    Quote Originally Posted by charley95 View Post
    I just read that this is true! Islam considers insurance 'gambling' so they are exempt from O-care penalties.

    Don't you guys just love this great country of ours???? If we are Muslim converts are we exempt too?
    My blood is boiling right now and so should any other red blooded american!

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    Quote Originally Posted by txcoastal1 View Post
    . So when is time for us (small business owners) to quit working 70hrs a week and join the entitlement programs and pursue menial jobs.
    Well now, that's the end game isn't it ? That's the push, that's what "forward" means.

    Some of you guys are lucky to have good VA hospitals by you. I've been in some that I must say was rather disgusting and my heart fell on the floor knowing that these are our guys/gals that made sacrifices in here. We can do better, we have to do better, and not just for vets either, for everyone. If we put the money into the places that really need it, appropriate what we have already, instead of all the garbage and fraud and stupid nation building, we wouldn't be having these discussions. How about America first.....citizens of America first. Then we can worry about the other junk after WE are taken care of.


    BTW, found this
    http://socialsecurityinstitute.com/b...n-to-obamacare

    Haven't dug into it so still not sure of it's validity. If it's true however, how much proof does one need to see whats going on here and in the world ?
    Last edited by tonyb; 09-27-2013 at 12:51 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steveinaz View Post
    No other Government employees are permitted "collective bargaining rights" why teachers?
    You may be unaware of them but there are many government worker unions, including AFGE and NATCA.
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    I guess this is THE CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN! You get what you vote for!

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    Just a thought on another aspect of this. We all know many corporations stood up in favor of this HC bill. Now many of the same ones are dumping their employee's into the exchanges. By eliminating the burden of those costs on a businesses balance sheet, they appear to be more stable thus their stock prices will go up. Investors will make money, Ceo's and other executives will meet their numbers for huge bonuses more easily. Home Depot and Walgreens as of late have announced dumping thousands of employee's into exchanges. Also don't forget these first year rates are going to be slowly increased over the next few years. The IRS themselves estimate the average family will see 20,000 dollar policies by the time this is fully implemented. The largest tax increase in our history, as said by the SCOTU. I would imagine most here consider themselves an "average" family. How many of you can afford to shell out, or lose 20k from your yearly income ? Politics aside, this bill will ruin you if you do the simple math.

    Still, I'm confused on the logic. We have a HC bill which the people who wrote it still don't understand it, the people who passed it don't know what's in it, and the people trying to implement it don't seem to grasp everything it entails either. Yet this is suppose to be the savior of our HC industry ? Kinda like a mousetrap, and we all know how a mousetrap works. You being the mouse, the IRS is the hammer, and the ACA is the cheese. Only a mouse has a choice to take that risk of getting the cheese, you however will not.

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