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  1. #1

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    Default Took the plunge on acoustic panels...

    Just purchased 6 - 2'x4' Knauf ECOSE insulation boards from ATS acoustics.

    The plan is to make some DIY frames and wrap them in burlap. I am hoping to use them for a couple different applications and just move them as needed.

    Maybe I got suckered, but my paranoia told me to order this product, which is formaldehyde free, as opposed to the Owens Corning 703. ATS said it was a similar product with regards to sound dampening.

    I am open to any and all suggestions, recommendations and/or flaming for my very well thought out (impulse) buy.

    Paul
    2-channel
    Sources: Pro-ject 2.9 wood Grado Gold cartridge; Squeezebox Duet; Oppo BDP-83
    Amps: PS Audio GCPH; PS Audio DLIII(Cullen mods IV); Parasound Halo P3; B & K Reference 200.2
    Speakers: Polk - LSi15's(db sub mod)


    HT
    Amps: Sony - STR-DG1000; Outlaw 200 Mono; Speakers: Polk - CS2, Monitor 70's, RC80i's; Video: Optoma HD20; FAVI HD-100


    Man Cave (In Progress)
    Sources: Sony PS-LX410, Denon 3910; Amps: Dared sl2000a, HK 3490, Simaudio Moon LP3; Speakers: Polk - SDA 2A's

  2. #2

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    Room treatments only make the rabbit hole wider. Bad choice. You're going to find flaws you never knew existed now.
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Douglas IC's, AQ cv-8 SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

  3. #3

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    Hello, Paul and good evening to you. One of the biggest deficiencies in a 2-channel system for any audiophile or music/movie aficionado is the room and how it affects the acoustical properties of the speakers and the end result as to what hits your ears. Welcome to the new road along your audio journey and may it lead you to new and exciting things, regardless of how or why you choose to get there. My hat is off to you for making the turn.

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    "The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction". - Kenneth Swauger

  4. #4

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    ^ Everything Tom said. There is truth in my original post, but the overall difference is very positive as you begin to hear your gear and not the room. You will likely need to give your ears some time to adjust to the new sound and might find it to be lacking in the highs at first.
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Douglas IC's, AQ cv-8 SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

  5. #5

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    Thanks for the posts gents. I have much research to do on placement.

    One space I hope to use these for is a very large and somewhat odd space(my main listening living room)...the other is a 12x12 room(music room and hopefully second system one day).
    2-channel
    Sources: Pro-ject 2.9 wood Grado Gold cartridge; Squeezebox Duet; Oppo BDP-83
    Amps: PS Audio GCPH; PS Audio DLIII(Cullen mods IV); Parasound Halo P3; B & K Reference 200.2
    Speakers: Polk - LSi15's(db sub mod)


    HT
    Amps: Sony - STR-DG1000; Outlaw 200 Mono; Speakers: Polk - CS2, Monitor 70's, RC80i's; Video: Optoma HD20; FAVI HD-100


    Man Cave (In Progress)
    Sources: Sony PS-LX410, Denon 3910; Amps: Dared sl2000a, HK 3490, Simaudio Moon LP3; Speakers: Polk - SDA 2A's

  6. #6

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    Good move Paul! IIRC that is mineral wool. This is how GIK makes theirs. Note that the edges are not protected by frame so dropping/leaning on can deform them, but this way offers maximum square inches of absorption versus enclosing edges in frame.

    Typical placement are diagnol in corners for bass, behind speakers, between speakers, first reflection and rear wall depending on how close you are to it. Type of speaker (wide or narrow dispersion, dipole) and room will dictate specific placement.

    Burlap will work. The basic rule for acoustic friendly fabric is that you can blow through it meaning it will absorb and not reflect.

    Last edited by SCompRacer; 10-05-2013 at 03:09 PM.
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

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  7. #7

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    ^^

    Thanks for the tips. I'm doing more research and will update when the time comes. It may be a bit before they get made as work is crazy for the next month or so.
    2-channel
    Sources: Pro-ject 2.9 wood Grado Gold cartridge; Squeezebox Duet; Oppo BDP-83
    Amps: PS Audio GCPH; PS Audio DLIII(Cullen mods IV); Parasound Halo P3; B & K Reference 200.2
    Speakers: Polk - LSi15's(db sub mod)


    HT
    Amps: Sony - STR-DG1000; Outlaw 200 Mono; Speakers: Polk - CS2, Monitor 70's, RC80i's; Video: Optoma HD20; FAVI HD-100


    Man Cave (In Progress)
    Sources: Sony PS-LX410, Denon 3910; Amps: Dared sl2000a, HK 3490, Simaudio Moon LP3; Speakers: Polk - SDA 2A's

  8. #8

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    GIK has lots of articles and videos on the subject listed under 'Education.'

    http://gikacoustics.com/articles/
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's
    Krell KSL Class A Pre w/ KSL Phono
    Krell Class A KSA-250
    Harmonic Technology Pro 9+
    Squeezebox Touch / Welborne Labs PS / I2S Out Mod
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    Twisted Pear Buffalo III Dual Mono ESS Sabre32 DAC
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    Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive
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  9. #9

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    Holy ****...

    Got the panels in today [super fast shipping (although not super cheap]

    I have both boys (1.5 and 3.5) tonight by myself, but was super pumped to check these babies out. When I ordered, I had planned to make frames and wrap and check them out when I had a day off alone.

    I decided tonight that it would be a good experiment to check them out in a general listening session. General listening session is defined in my home as two boys bouncing around and playing with toys. I figured if I could hear a difference with the normal noise going on, then it would definitely make a difference when I do get the quiet time for my real listening.

    I set the panels in the first reflection point, behind the speakers (which are about 2.5 feet out from the wall), and behind the listening position on a chair.

    After careful instruction for the boys not to touch the panels, I took a seat in my regular listening couch.

    Holy ****...

    The music was crazy focused.

    The sound was more comfortable, more smooth, more focused...it just felt better. Even the kids playing around...it just felt quieter. It wasn't like I was reaching to hear something...it was like snap, there it was.

    The first thing that grabbed my attention was the center focus. My system typically sounds pretty good, with vocals coming straight from the middle, but now the rest of the music seemed reigned in and the whole performance was MUCH more balanced.

    BTW...these observations are all from a Van Morrison...Moondance vinyl, which I don't consider by any means to be a reference recording.

    I am now listening to a Led Zep album and wish I had the panels out.

    Unfortunately, for me...I'll have to figure a way to construct these babies so they are portable without being easily damaged. I have three different areas that I plan to utilize these for and will have to set them in place each time. Would love to permanently mount them, but don't think that will go over well.

    Anyway...I'll post more impressions once I get them covered and listen more.

    But seriously...this isn't just a "Hey, I spent money on something...I better hear a difference." This is a "Wow." And a "Wow" is something I've only really had two other times.
    2-channel
    Sources: Pro-ject 2.9 wood Grado Gold cartridge; Squeezebox Duet; Oppo BDP-83
    Amps: PS Audio GCPH; PS Audio DLIII(Cullen mods IV); Parasound Halo P3; B & K Reference 200.2
    Speakers: Polk - LSi15's(db sub mod)


    HT
    Amps: Sony - STR-DG1000; Outlaw 200 Mono; Speakers: Polk - CS2, Monitor 70's, RC80i's; Video: Optoma HD20; FAVI HD-100


    Man Cave (In Progress)
    Sources: Sony PS-LX410, Denon 3910; Amps: Dared sl2000a, HK 3490, Simaudio Moon LP3; Speakers: Polk - SDA 2A's

  10. #10
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    Notice the use of mineral wool, another long fiber, random density material rather than Polyfill or Dacron. If it is used in room treatment design then it would be good for inside speakers as well. The same principles apply.

  11. #11

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    So how thick did you end up making them? For bass trapping you really want 6" thick or better in the corners and for first reflection you want a minimum 2" 4 would be better.

    I currently have 2 corners trapped and a pair on the ceiling wall joint which is also considered a corner and the plus to that is it takes up no floor space.

    I have the 6" in the corners and the 20x20x48 on the ceiling wall corner and they made a huge change and I am going to add 4 more of them soon but if you go and constructed some of those make sure you use 6mill plastic so it does not destroy your high frequency and make the room super dead.

    Good luck traps for the money are one of the best things that one can do if you can deal with how they look.
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phasewolf View Post
    So how thick did you end up making them? For bass trapping you really want 6" thick or better in the corners and for first reflection you want a minimum 2" 4 would be better.

    I currently have 2 corners trapped and a pair on the ceiling wall joint which is also considered a corner and the plus to that is it takes up no floor space.

    I have the 6" in the corners and the 20x20x48 on the ceiling wall corner and they made a huge change and I am going to add 4 more of them soon but if you go and constructed some of those make sure you use 6mill plastic so it does not destroy your high frequency and make the room super dead.

    Good luck traps for the money are one of the best things that one can do if you can deal with how they look.
    This is what I bought "6 - 2'x4' Knauf ECOSE insulation boards from ATS acoustics." They are 2" thick.

    I just set them in the mentioned positions for a quick 20 min review. I'll do more experimenting later.

    Thank you for the tips.

    Edit...wait, where do I use the 6 mill plastic?
    Last edited by hochpt21; 10-09-2013 at 08:10 PM.
    2-channel
    Sources: Pro-ject 2.9 wood Grado Gold cartridge; Squeezebox Duet; Oppo BDP-83
    Amps: PS Audio GCPH; PS Audio DLIII(Cullen mods IV); Parasound Halo P3; B & K Reference 200.2
    Speakers: Polk - LSi15's(db sub mod)


    HT
    Amps: Sony - STR-DG1000; Outlaw 200 Mono; Speakers: Polk - CS2, Monitor 70's, RC80i's; Video: Optoma HD20; FAVI HD-100


    Man Cave (In Progress)
    Sources: Sony PS-LX410, Denon 3910; Amps: Dared sl2000a, HK 3490, Simaudio Moon LP3; Speakers: Polk - SDA 2A's

  13. #13

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    I used the plastic for my really large traps in the corners. It 6 mills thick it will start to reflect around 500hz and above so the room does not get too dead. With the panels your making for things like first reflection you would not use it but if you start making bass traps them it would be a good idea. Higher frequently sound is much easer to trap then bass and takes less thickness and less coverage go do so. Bass on the other hand takes a lot of traps and thick ones at that before it really starts to help.
    Absolute corruption empowers absolutely.

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  14. #14

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    Ahhhh....ok.

    Thanks for that.

    Just starting out, and I already thwarted the wife's "first take".

    As far as any of us know, these will be used in my music room in the basement and "may" be brought out to the living room and HT on occasion. <hugesmileyface>
    2-channel
    Sources: Pro-ject 2.9 wood Grado Gold cartridge; Squeezebox Duet; Oppo BDP-83
    Amps: PS Audio GCPH; PS Audio DLIII(Cullen mods IV); Parasound Halo P3; B & K Reference 200.2
    Speakers: Polk - LSi15's(db sub mod)


    HT
    Amps: Sony - STR-DG1000; Outlaw 200 Mono; Speakers: Polk - CS2, Monitor 70's, RC80i's; Video: Optoma HD20; FAVI HD-100


    Man Cave (In Progress)
    Sources: Sony PS-LX410, Denon 3910; Amps: Dared sl2000a, HK 3490, Simaudio Moon LP3; Speakers: Polk - SDA 2A's

  15. #15

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    Good job Paul! Since you are building, I've had better results with my GIK Tri-Traps in corners versus panels hung across corners. I stack two Tri-Traps per corner in my south wall setup, or stack two in one corner with my west wall setup with the singles in diagnol corners.
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

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  16. #16

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    Well just remember the best way to place traps is to measure and make sure your not adding a issue with a location as that can happen.
    Absolute corruption empowers absolutely.

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  17. #17

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    10-4 thank you both.
    2-channel
    Sources: Pro-ject 2.9 wood Grado Gold cartridge; Squeezebox Duet; Oppo BDP-83
    Amps: PS Audio GCPH; PS Audio DLIII(Cullen mods IV); Parasound Halo P3; B & K Reference 200.2
    Speakers: Polk - LSi15's(db sub mod)


    HT
    Amps: Sony - STR-DG1000; Outlaw 200 Mono; Speakers: Polk - CS2, Monitor 70's, RC80i's; Video: Optoma HD20; FAVI HD-100


    Man Cave (In Progress)
    Sources: Sony PS-LX410, Denon 3910; Amps: Dared sl2000a, HK 3490, Simaudio Moon LP3; Speakers: Polk - SDA 2A's

  18. #18

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    Sounds like fun! So, BTW, what were your two other "wow" moments?

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by dromunds View Post
    Sounds like fun! So, BTW, what were your two other "wow" moments?
    1) Monitor 70's to LSi15's
    2) HK 3490 internal phono stage to PS Audio GCPH phono stage
    2-channel
    Sources: Pro-ject 2.9 wood Grado Gold cartridge; Squeezebox Duet; Oppo BDP-83
    Amps: PS Audio GCPH; PS Audio DLIII(Cullen mods IV); Parasound Halo P3; B & K Reference 200.2
    Speakers: Polk - LSi15's(db sub mod)


    HT
    Amps: Sony - STR-DG1000; Outlaw 200 Mono; Speakers: Polk - CS2, Monitor 70's, RC80i's; Video: Optoma HD20; FAVI HD-100


    Man Cave (In Progress)
    Sources: Sony PS-LX410, Denon 3910; Amps: Dared sl2000a, HK 3490, Simaudio Moon LP3; Speakers: Polk - SDA 2A's

  20. #20

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    Paul, congrats on your panel journey.

    I too soon hope to be making this leap, and am debating ATS panels as well. In my case though I am debating having some custom canvas photo's made that just happen to be the same size I need for my traps.

    My wife might be happier to let me put them in the main room if they are "pictures" and not "more stupid audio stuff"....

    The ones not covered in canvas I am probably going to look for an off white burlap type material so they still look good. I don't think for me at least black panels will ever be an option again.
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  21. #21

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    Name:  acustic panels 002 (1280x853) (2).jpg
Views: 317
Size:  497.8 KBCongrats on taking the "Treatment" approach to better sound. I also bought our materials from ATS Acoustics, including the Burlap.

    My first impressions were exactly as yours, the imaging had tightened up dramatically and the sweet spot (I have SDA's) had grown a little bigger at the same time.

    Vocals were more pronounced and drums had a greater impact to them, and on and on.

    Money and time well spent, a very simple DIY project that has big returns.
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  22. #22

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    I covered some 1" OC703 with cotton fabric myself. Burlap would've been ideal but i didn't want the fiberglass to "breathe" too much. You probably did the right thing and got mineral wool which is much safer than having covered fiberglass around especially with growing kids around. The resins they put in fiberglass such as acetaldehyde are carcinogenic and do breathe through any fabric or cover.

    Be careful to not overzealously treat your room! Absorption is only one room treatment tool! I had covered the entire front wall with absorption and didn't like the results. It sounded way too dead which is why I chose 1" over 2" OC703. I wanted a little more ambience and while center imaging is critical i wanted the sound to envelope the room more. Diffusion in a room is also important. I had wanted to play around with constructing a 3D diffusor but I never got around to it.
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  23. #23

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    I've got a bit more to do, although there is a large art panel you can't see at my right side. We added some big chairs in front of the sliding glass doors on back wall. Treatments are essential. I'm not even worried about room correction although there are still some issues.
    Last edited by doctorcilantro; 10-21-2013 at 05:10 PM.
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  24. #24

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    Hard to read a waterfall from a cell phone but looks like you still need some work at 130hz and below. Tuned membrane traps would work well without killing the high end at all.
    Absolute corruption empowers absolutely.

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  25. #25
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    Two great, and extremely detailed Home Theater Geeks episodes on room acoustics with Anthony Grimani.

    http://twit.tv/show/home-theater-geeks/177

    http://twit.tv/show/home-theater-geeks/178

  26. #26

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    Yes, the mode here is about 53hz IIRC. It's really night and day though and for most music I don't notice issues. I'm stuck with no more treatments my wife will allow so I may have to try DIRAC or Accourate.
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  27. #27

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    Finally got a little time today. Only got two done (was hoping for more), but I wanted to make sure I did a quality job.

    For anyone interested, here is how I did it...

    For my purposes the build is a little different. I need these to be portable so here we go.

    Here is a picture of the panels I purchased from ATS acoustics.
    Click image for larger version

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    I started with two 8' lengths of 2" white pine. Maybe the toughest part of the whole project was finding a reasonably straight board at Home Depot.
    Click image for larger version

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    On my build there will be two pieces of board sticking out of one end, so I wanted to paint those to match the sage green burlap I had already picked out.
    Click image for larger version

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    I cut the 8' down to 5' 6" which will put my panel at 1' 6" off the ground.

    I then made the frame using wood glue and one nail. I followed up with solid inner brackets so that the outside of the frame was smooth.
    Click image for larger version

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    I put burlap on one side and then wedged the panel in the frame. It was a pretty tight fit so the panel doesn't rely solely on the burlap to keep it in place...(not pictured, but it's pretty wedged in there)
    Click image for larger version

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    I then wrapped the other side all the way around and stapled it to the back so the front and the sides are as tight, clean and smooth as I could make them.

    Here is the final product. I am very happy with how they turned out!
    Click image for larger version

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    2-channel
    Sources: Pro-ject 2.9 wood Grado Gold cartridge; Squeezebox Duet; Oppo BDP-83
    Amps: PS Audio GCPH; PS Audio DLIII(Cullen mods IV); Parasound Halo P3; B & K Reference 200.2
    Speakers: Polk - LSi15's(db sub mod)


    HT
    Amps: Sony - STR-DG1000; Outlaw 200 Mono; Speakers: Polk - CS2, Monitor 70's, RC80i's; Video: Optoma HD20; FAVI HD-100


    Man Cave (In Progress)
    Sources: Sony PS-LX410, Denon 3910; Amps: Dared sl2000a, HK 3490, Simaudio Moon LP3; Speakers: Polk - SDA 2A's

  28. #28

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    Nice job Paul.

  29. #29

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    Feb 2005
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    Plainfield, Illinois
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    5,282

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    Good job Paul! I like the corner braces. Yeah, it's tough trying to find primo pine strips at my local depot too.
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's
    Krell KSL Class A Pre w/ KSL Phono
    Krell Class A KSA-250
    Harmonic Technology Pro 9+
    Squeezebox Touch / Welborne Labs PS / I2S Out Mod
    Denon 3910 w/I2S/DSD Out
    Twisted Pear Buffalo III Dual Mono ESS Sabre32 DAC
    Sennheiser HD650
    Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive
    AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm
    Dynavector 17D3
    Shunyata Hydra (Original)
    NHT B-12d subs
    GIK Acoustic Treatments


    CP Showcase

  30. #30

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    Looks like your panels are turning out very well, I like the idea of "mobile", nice work.
    SDA CRS+4.1TL's/Modded SDA 1C's/Modded SDA SRS 3.1 TL's/Modded SDA SRS 2.3TL

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