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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jestered View Post
    Another one that apparently has no clue what the actual question was and has not taken the time to actually read.
    Pay attention, the thread has morphed beyond that. You contributed to that. You are more on than off. ;)
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  2. #62

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    That's actually true. And if the rest of the haters in this thread would have actually read and understood the equipment I was asking about, they probably would have agreed as well. Unfortunately, there's not enough listening and too much crap talk here.
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    Jestered, many things go down on this forum, but grudges are generally not held. I've had intense bickering a with quite a few members now, and all but one had the ability to see through the mess and put those interchanges aside and get to the fact of the matter. We try to help people here, but inexcusable ignorance is one that hits a nerve. Experience trumps those notions in your head, you've just got to be willing to lift the veil.

    If John had sent me his number, I'd be on the phone wi him now. He is one of those guys whose opinion I respect so much that I want to do nothing but learn from their experiences.
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  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by SCompRacer View Post
    Pay attention, the thread has morphed beyond that. You contributed to that. You are more on than off. ;)
    I'm only one when the "masses" are on. What does that tell you?
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  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jestered View Post
    That's actually true. And if the rest of the haters in this thread would have actually read and understood the equipment I was asking about, they probably would have agreed as well. Unfortunately, there's not enough listening and too much crap talk here.
    But we understand your point and still don't agree. We've all seen them before and probably had the same notions at one point in this hobby.
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  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSkip View Post
    Jestered, many things go down on this forum, but grudges are generally not held. I've had intense bickering a with quite a few members now, and all but one had the ability to see through the mess and put those interchanges aside and get to the fact of the matter. We try to help people here, but inexcusable ignorance is one that hits a nerve. Experience trumps those notions in your head, you've just got to be willing to lift the veil.

    If John had sent me his number, I'd be on the phone wi him now. He is one of those guys whose opinion I respect so much that I want to do nothing but learn from their experiences.
    DSkip- I'm pretty much the same. And your comment would have been a perfect start to that until this:

    but inexcusable ignorance is one that hits a nerve

    You're either horrible at what you were trying to accomplish, or you really good at it.
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    Hrm Pioneer rates the VSX-53 as 110wpc into 8 ohms x 7 according to its user manual...not 80 like its owner claims...interesting, but how would it perform while powering 7 seperate speaker is a whole 'nother question.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jestered View Post
    DSkip- I'm pretty much the same. And your comment would have been a perfect start to that until this:

    but inexcusable ignorance is one that hits a nerve

    You're either horrible at what you were trying to accomplish, or you really good at it.
    John was willing to take time out of his night and try to put the pieces together for you. You not willing to accept that offer is inexcusable, therefore your ignorance is inexcusable. Again, nothing against you, but the truth nonetheless.
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Douglas IC's, AQ cv-8 SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by nbrowser View Post
    Hrm Pioneer rates the VSX-53 as 110wpc into 8 ohms x 7 according to its user manual...not 80 like its owner claims...interesting, but how would it perform while powering 7 seperate speaker is a whole 'nother question.
    Seriously! Please figure this out. The 110WPC is two channels driven. The 80 watts is the actual WPC when driving 7 channels. Read up!
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  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSkip View Post
    John was willing to take time out of his night and try to put the pieces together for you. You not willing to accept that offer is inexcusable, therefore your ignorance is inexcusable. Again, nothing against you, but the truth nonetheless.
    If John had been washing my hair and telling me stories from the past, the response would have been different. But that wasn't the case. Right?
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  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by nbrowser View Post
    Is this really happening?!?!?!?!?
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    Let me break this down one last time...

    The power supply in your Pioneer is SMALLER than the power supply of a stand-alone amplifier, even though it supports the wattage output of 80 watts you have been talking about. Further, the receiver does not have the ability to STORE that energy in either a large number of or into a large storage output capacitor.

    A power amp may be fed by the power supply, but the actual power is within the output caps. the power supply feeds the caps, which in turn, feeds the speakers. The larger the supply of power, the faster the caps can respond to demand. Can small caps, and small power supply equals the same watt numbers... yes, you would be correct to assume that, BUT(and it is a HUGE BUT!) the small power supply runs out of gas quickly and cannot fill the tank(caps) fast enough to meet the demands of the speakers. It is here that your 80 watts of receiver power smack into the wall and kill your speakers through something called "clipping". A more robust 80 wpc amp however will have the storage capacity to meet the demand and deliver what your speakers are asking for.

    The other thing is transient response. This is when the speakers ask for power, how fast does the amplifier provide it, and recover for the next demand? An amp with the larger power supply and capacitance, will be faster every time, and audibly so. Even if all we are talking about is just a few milliseconds, and yes.. even at low volumes.
    Last edited by nooshinjohn; 10-15-2013 at 11:10 PM.
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  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jestered View Post
    If John had been washing my hair and telling me stories from the past, the response would have been different. But that wasn't the case. Right?
    come on man... do you really think I would offer to help you understand if my real goal was to insult you over the phone?

    I am trying to help you here, as have others and all you seem to want to do is insult anyone that tries.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nooshinjohn View Post
    Let me break this down one last time...

    The power supply in your Pioneer is SMALLER than the power supply of a stand-alone amplifier, even though it supports the wattage output of 80 watts you have been talking about. Further, the receiver does not have the ability to STORE that energy in either a large number of or into a large storage output capacitor.

    A power amp may be fed by the power supply, but the actual power is within the output caps. the power supply feeds the caps, which in turn, feeds the speakers. The larger the supply of power, the faster the caps can respond to demand. Can small caps, and small power supply equals the same watt numbers... yes, you would be correct to assume that, BUT(and it is a HUGE BUT!) the small power supply runs out of gas quickly and cannot fill the tank(caps) fast enough to meet the demands of the speakers. It is here that your 80 watts of receiver power smack into the wall and kill your speakers through something called "clipping". A more robust 80 wpc amp however will have the storage capacity to meet the demand and deliver what your speakers are asking for.

    The other thing is transient response. This is when the speakers ask for power, how fast does the amplifier provide it, and recover for the next demand? An amp with the larger power supply and capacitance, will be faster every time, and audibly so. Even if all we are talking about is just a few milliseconds, and yes.. even at low volumes.
    This is so well written and exactly what a lot of the number crunchers don't understand. Posts like this are why I still visit this forum daily.
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  16. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by nooshinjohn View Post
    Let me break this down one last time...

    The power supply in your Pioneer is SMALLER than the power supply of a stand-alone amplifier, even though it supports the wattage output of 80 watts you have been talking about. Further, the receiver does not have the ability to STORE that energy in either a large number of or into a large storage output capacitor.

    A power amp may be fed by the power supply, but the actual power is within the output caps. the power supply feeds the caps, which in turn, feeds the speakers. The larger the supply of power, the faster the caps can respond to demand. Can small caps, and small power supply equals the same watt numbers... yes, you would be correct to assume that, BUT(and it is a HUGE BUT!) the small power supply runs out of gas quickly and cannot fill the tank(caps) fast enough to meet the demands of the speakers. It is here that your 80 watts of receiver power smack into the wall and kill your speakers through something called "clipping". A more robust 80 wpc amp however will have the storage capacity to meet the demand and deliver what your speakers are asking for.

    The other thing is transient response. This is when the speakers ask for power, how fast does the amplifier provide it, and recover for the next demand? An amp with the larger power supply and capacitance, will be faster every time, and audibly so. Even if all we are talking about is just a few milliseconds, and yes.. even at low volumes.
    Now this would have been nice to have read from the very beginning. Instead, a lot of name calling ensued and a lot of unnecessary insults as well.

    I've been here before, just asking for some information that I could digest. I never got rude or attacking but I sure got attacked from my questioning. I didn't get called a troll but several other insults came my way......over a stupid speaker cable.

    Anyway, there's tact, and there's tactless. I saw very little tact compared to the tactless in this thread. But, I can see where it may be difficult to give an answer, then if it's not received the way it's hoped to, then demeaning behavior soon follows, what a shame.
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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    God knows what source..
    LOL! It all starts there.
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    Sure does a lot of things.

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    Jestered, it's clear that you don't understand much about audio gear. Until you get your head out of the specs pages and get some real world experience I'm not sure you will ever get beyond the stage you are at now. I took the time to read some of your posts and the responses at another forum you are on. Being told that all SS amps sound the same, that your AVR is a s good as it gets and that using test instruments is better than the ear are not doing you any favors.

    BTW, since you are stuck of specs allow me to correct one. You're A5's have a -3dB of 40Hz and drop like a lead weight, they are not solid to 30Hz.

    I wish you luck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    BTW, since you are stuck of specs allow me to correct one. You're A5's have a -3dB of 40Hz and drop like a lead weight, they are not solid to 30Hz.

    I wish you luck.
    You're correcting what here? I've never mentioned that my speakers are exceptional. I've never said my crappy speakers, and the specs of those speakers are great, so what's your point? What exactly are you correcting?

    Also, if you want to stalk me on other forums, go ahead and post the link. I'm not hiding from anything. I have the same screen name "Jestered", on AVS as I do here. What's your point?
    Last edited by Jestered; 10-16-2013 at 02:57 AM.
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    You were told by another that your speakers were solid to 30Hz and since you seem to swallow all that is told to you on that other forum, I thought it best to set the record straight.

    I've never mentioned my crappy speakers
    What an odd thing to say considering that you posted this, " So, I keep reading that this setup will come alive (I think it kicks @ss as it is)" just the other day.
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    What's your point?
    Well, I've made few points, but you don't seem capable of comprehending any of them. So, for this moment in time let's say that's my point.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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  23. #83

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    Another one that doesn't read anything before speaking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    Well, I've made few points, but you don't seem capable of comprehending any of them. So, for this moment in time let's say that's my point.
    Which is no point at all? Did I ever bring up anything that was talked about in another forum? Nope. So why are you bringing it up? I never mentioned it in defense of any FACTS that I've spoken, so I'm not sure why you're bringing it up. What exactly is your point in bringing it up at all?
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    My reading comprehension is beyond reproach, thank you very much.

    Now, have you even tried to understand that the power supply is key to the reason a power amp is superior to an AVR or are you going to keep ignoring the answer to your question?
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    What exactly is your point in bringing it up at all?
    Which point would that be, I've made a number of them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    My reading comprehension is beyond reproach, thank you very much.

    Now, have you even tried to understand that the power supply is key to the reason a power amp is superior to an AVR or are you going to keep ignoring the answer to your question?
    Why don't you explain it to me? That's what I've been asking for all this time.
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    Let's talk about why you said your speakers are crappy when you just said the other day that your setup kicks a$$ as is. Do you suffer some sort of mental issue or do you just have a problem remembering what you said?
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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    Why don't you explain it to me? That's what I've been asking for all this time.
    A number of folks have explained it in some detail already.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    Let's talk about why you said your speakers are crappy when you just said the other day that your setup kicks a$$ as is. Do you suffer some sort of mental issue or do you just have a problem remembering what you said?
    Are you serious?!?!?! Why are you trying to avoid the question? Why are you trying to talk about what I think of my speakers? It's obvious that when I talked about my speakers that I was referring to you trying to talk them down. I wouldn't have them if I thought they were crap. Either way, I could care less what you think of my equipment. I made the mistake thinking that you might be able to enlighten me here, but I was very wrong.
    Samsung 65" ES8000 LED
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