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  1. #31

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    read above to see the question. And a question mark is usual at the end of a sentence that ask's a question.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by nbrowser View Post
    Mindless, some lesser AVR makers have wild power ratings for their AVR amplifier sections, Some are so trumped up that, well for lack of a better term, the customer got ripped right off.
    I am familiar with this, as said above.
    Although, I would not put Denon in the category of "Lesser AVR maker"

  3. #33

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    I suggested the Pioneer Elite AVR's because they have everything you need, the power to drive your speakers and all the bells and whistles, which includes pre-outs. However, I doubt you'd ever use them.

    What you bought isn't anywhere close to the Elire AVR's. The Denon's wpc rating is going to drop like a lead weight by the time you hook up 5 speakers and it will drop even more if you attempt to ghetto bi-amp. Talking about bi-amping, it's not possible with an AVR. Real bi-amping requires separate amps each with it's own power supply not a shared one like all AVR's have and it requires active crossovers. You'd do better by replacing the stock jumper plates with high quality speaker cable.

    If I may suggest, return the Denon and buy one of the Pioneer Elites.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by MindlessCorpse View Post
    I am familiar with this, as said above.
    Although, I would not put Denon in the category of "Lesser AVR maker"
    Nobody said Denon was "lesser".....what was said was that particular model was "entry level". Every brand has different lines of receivers, entry level, mid-level, top of the line. With every level comes improvements in build quality, connectivity, and sound quality.

    We also aren't bashing your gear, just trying to steer you to make better choices based on what you want it to do, and future proof yourself so you won't have to go buy another receiver if you ever want to get harder to drive speakers or add more speakers.

    Todays receivers are not like the old 2 channel receivers of years ago when most were built with fairly good power supplies and 40 watts could drive most any 8 ohm speaker. Plus there is so much garbage in todays marketing of receivers, one needs a good pair of boots to wade around in it to discern the information presented. We are here to help you discern that info, so to answer some questions we need to ask a few to get to the proper answers or suggestions. Make sense ? Please don't take it as bashing, we simply don't like to see people make choices we know they will likely be unhappy with.

  5. #35

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    Everyone has given you excellent advice, but you haven't been listening.

    Unless you plan to buy a used Sunfire receiver, they are the only ones that made a 200wpc receiver, here is where you should start if you want to go with a Denon.

    http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-3313...ords=denon+avr

    If it doesn't have everything you want, keep going UP the line until you find one that has everything you want along with the preouts that you will need to add a separate amplifier.

    As you can see it will cost you considerably more money, but it will be well worth it in the end. You will have a receiver that should keep you happy for many years.

    You have now been given the answers to your questions, it is now up to YOU to decide if you are going to listen, and if you want to spend the money to put together a great system.

    If you don't, then there is nothing more we can do to help you.
    Sunfire TGP III PrePro, Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature 405wpc 5 ch. Amp, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Onkyo TA2600 Tape Deck, Pioneer Elite 47-A DVD, Sony 32" XBR TV, Polk RTA-8T Main Speakers, Boston VR-920 Center Channel, Boston PV-600 Subwoofer, Polk DSW 400 Subwoofer, Polk FXi-3 Surround Speakers

  6. #36

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    ^^^^^^^ Exactly ^^^^^^^
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  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by MindlessCorpse View Post
    I am familiar with this, as said above.
    Although, I would not put Denon in the category of "Lesser AVR maker"
    I never said Denon was lesser, sure there is the entry level which will leave you wanting more. Entry level means basic. Just remember this, not ripping you or anything honest.
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  8. #38

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    Finally, found it, as to the bi-amping
    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...r-70-bi-wiring
    the reply by Eric W. of Polk Customer Service indicates it is worth a try.
    I also found out from Denon that since the Denon AVR-E400 has Independent Power Supplies and Seperate Discreet Individual Amplifier circuits, and a bi-amp mode it can be set to run 2 amps to each of the front 2 bi-amp speakers, giving ( under full 7.1 speaker load) 180 RMS watts to each of the bi-amp speakers. (front two floorstanding speakers)
    So, according to the Professional at Polk and the technicians at Denon most of the replies here have been in error/wrong.
    Even better, due to the Denon's ability to push 180 true RMS watts to each of the front speakers that puts it at the same power range at the front two speakers as the Top of the line Pioneer Elite, and saves me about 2,500 dollars.
    And as to the advice to listen to the advice....LOL....
    I love it when a plan comes together...
    Now the only question left is pertaining to the internal speaker cabinet wiring, but that question can now be as ignored as it has been. I can crack one and find out for my self... better off that wy
    Cıa !!!
    Last edited by MindlessCorpse; 10-20-2013 at 12:55 PM. Reason: add line

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by MindlessCorpse View Post
    Finally, found it, as to the bi-amping
    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...r-70-bi-wiring
    the reply by Eric W. of Polk Customer Service indicates it is worth a try.
    I also found out from Denon that since the Denon AVR-E400 has Independent Power Supplies and Seperate Discreet Individual Amplifier circuits, and a bi-amp mode it can be set to run 2 amps to each of the front 2 bi-amp speakers, giving ( under full 7.1 speaker load) 180 RMS watts to each of the bi-amp speakers. (front two floorstanding speakers)
    So, according to the Professional at Polk and the technicians at Denon most of the replies here have been in error/wrong.
    Even better, due to the Denon's ability to push 180 true RMS watts to each of the front speakers that puts it at the same power range at the front two speakers as the Top of the line Pioneer Elite, and saves me about 2,500 dollars.
    And as to the advice to listen to the advice....LOL....
    I love it when a plan comes together...
    Now the only question left is pertaining to the internal speaker cabinet wiring, but that question can now be as ignored as it has been. I can crack one and find out for my self... better off that wy
    Cıa !!!
    I originally bought an entry level Denon (used) but had to return it, then I was interested in buying an entry level Yamaha. I was new to all this, and these guys steered me towards a Pioneer Elite. There isn't a day that goes by that I'm not grateful for the advise given in this forum and the willingness to help by it's members.

    If it's about the price, you can find great deals on the used market. I bought mine on Craigslist for $300 and it's been used everyday since it's purchase without a hint of problems.
    Last edited by Hermitism; 10-20-2013 at 01:04 PM.
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  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermitism View Post
    I originally bought an entry level Denon (used) but had to return it, then I was interested in buying an entry level Yamaha. I was new to all this, and these guys steered me towards a Pioneer Elite. There isn't a day that goes by that I'm not grateful for the advise given in this forum and the willingness to help by it's members.

    If it's about the price, you can find great deals on the used market. I bought mine on Craigslist for $300 and it's been used everyday since it's purchase without a hint of problems.
    .
    Now, That is worthy input. I am not sure it is a price issue but price does dictate most things. Also, for efficiency most anyone would look for the best return on investment.
    Also, (and this has not been previously mentioned) once this setup is up and running, when the new TV is purchased for the living room, the öld" tv will be moved to the basement along with the sound that is setup with it. So, I don't mind that it is not the 'Best' system in the country, just as long as it is satisfactory for me and mine to use in a second entertainment area/basement. The present TV by the way is a 2012 Panasonic GT50 60 inch Plasma. The new TV (when it comes) will most likely be another Samsung series 8 Plasma 60 inch (the old one was taken out by a lightning strike).
    I actually do not remember mentioning anywhere in these posts that I am looking for the best, but have given examples as to what I am presently putting together and any tips on hook up's, tweaks or placement issues would have been helpful, also, such guidance as maybe trying craigslist ... I did not do that, but probably will now. I might find a deal and go ahead and pick it up.
    So far here most have replied with criticism and judgemental remarks on how all I am doing is the wrong way... for instance, a remark like "why do you think you need so much power? the speakers you have are a light load" while another post in this forum states the M 70's come alive at around 300 watts... 300 watts a speaker is no 'Light load " unless one is accustomed to setting up Arena sized concert systems.
    Another person replied on how the Denon AVR-E400 is an entry level receiver (according to Denon it is mid-level). The remark in itself bothers me in no way, but it does let me know the person making it is not only Judgemental, but inaccurate in his assessment. And this lets me also know to read his information... in that light. That person also stated that bi-amping is useless and a waste. This makes one wonder why Polk makes bi-amp speakers, and AVR manufacturers make units that are bi-amp capable? Even if the AVR has independent power supplies coupled to individual discreet amplifiers. Maybe that person is just not up to date on present equipment and the various abilities they have ?
    Another has stated how buying an amp without pre-amp outs was a mistake, but most stand alone Amp's I know of will also accept line level input. But at least that person did mention well known facts regarding speaker cable. Still Accurate and helpful though.
    Yet another has replied by asking why I use a question mark at the end of a question. I still don't understand that one, or how it was supposed to be helpful or even pertinent.
    Then there is a reply that states it is not possible to bi-amp with a AVR, you need a separate amplifier. ... But the Denon has individual discreet amps internal powered by separate power sources. On this, I am not pushing Denon AVR as being the best in fact I am not even rating any of them. But, the Denon is a unit that has been designed to handle various needs.
    I asked if anyone was familiar with the internal speaker wiring of the M 70 speaker, and was responded to with 'Dont worry about that' My question was not if I should or should not worry about it. Another unhelpful negative reply.
    I was invited to join this forum to ask questions, by a prompt at the Polk Audio page while registering equipment.
    Nope, I am not asking anyones opinion on what I have chosen to purchase. Dont even care about them. I am unconcerned over which piece of equipment is entry level or which piece might bring me to professional level God like status in the eyes of others. Just informed useful information on what I am hooking up.
    Last edited by MindlessCorpse; 10-20-2013 at 04:10 PM. Reason: remove line

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by MindlessCorpse View Post
    Now the only question left is pertaining to the internal speaker cabinet wiring, but that question can now be as ignored as it has been. I can crack one and find out for my self... better off that wy
    Cıa !!!
    Not sure what is your problem but save yourself a trouble and do what you want. If you asked questions but not listening to answers, what's the point of asking in the first place?

    I think it's better off that way too.

    Ciao!
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone.

  12. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by megasat16 View Post
    Not sure what is your problem but save yourself a trouble and do what you want. If you asked questions but not listening to answers, what's the point of asking in the first place?

    I think it's better off that way too.

    Ciao!
    another fail

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by MindlessCorpse View Post
    another fail
    I agree but can't be worse than you!

    Speaking about fail, do you understand you should start a new thread and not hijack someone else thread with different questions?
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone.

  14. #44

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    Don't mistake the comments as criticism. There are different ways of doing things. Some people buy equipment, and over a short period of time realize that they need to upgrade. These guys are trying to show you the best way to do it, the first time. A lot of the people here buy used equipment. Instead of buying new, you can spend the same amount of money on the used market and get a system that will make you happy for many years. With the exception of my TV and PSW125, everything was purchased used in my setup. They are just giving you options. In the end, it's up to you to decide. Everything that was suggested to me, whether it was selecting equipment or making improvements to something I already had, has yielded positive results for me. I trust their opinions. And you don't always get the same opinions...but they are all good choices in the end. I'd rather learn from other people mistakes, than make them myself.
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  15. #45

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    Here's an excellent article about what bi-amping is and is not, http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm

    The Denon weights 20.7 pounds, the Elite SC series weigh twice that. Hell, the power supply for my main 2 channel amp weighs over 40 lbs. alone.

    Whoever told you your Denon has a power supply for each amp channel is mistaken. Yes, it has discrete amp channels, but they still share one power supply.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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  16. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    Whoever told you your Denon has a power supply for each amp channel is mistaken. Yes, it has discrete amp channels, but they still share one power supply.
    Glad you found a delicate way to say this. I was struggling over that one.
    Last edited by drummer86; 10-20-2013 at 05:43 PM.
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  17. #47

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    Mindless why are you on this forum anyway? The people who answer your questions are giveing you solid advise but all you want to do is pick it apart and offend so why ask questions if your not willing to listen.

    I for one an thankfull that I have a place where I can read and ask questions from other who have been there done that. I've yet to receive bad advise.

    Roger

  18. #48

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    Everyone here gave you great advice, and you chose to ignore it. In the long run it's no sweat off our backs but there's a reason almost everyone here runs Pioneer Elites with Polk, its from personal experience. I tried the same thing, my Denon clipped and fried my tweeter, didn't have near the power of the Pionner no matter what they claim. That Denon weighs 18lbs, no preouts, no removable power cord and they claim 185wpc??? If you look closer it's only rated at 90watts from 20hz-20khz at .08% distortion. If you try to "bi-amp" you're simply robbing power from other channels, it's not actually gaining power. With 7 channels driven you'd be lucky to get 50 watts tops, where as the Elite actually sticks to it's rated specs. You'll find out the hard way instead of the easy way, we were just trying to save you some headache.
    Theater Room: Pioneer Elite SC-35, RTi12's, Csi5, Fxi5's, Fxi3's, ED A5-350 sub, Optoma HD20, 92'' Elite Screen, Xbox One, APC H15, MIT Exp 2 SC's, Pepster PC's

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  19. #49

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    As someone who's moved almost entirely away from Polk speakers (though the lsim 703s are tempting) I will always come to this forum first when I need advice because the people here really do know what they're talking about and always go out of their way to help. The advice is always good and the best part about it is... if you don't agree you don't have to take it!
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  20. #50

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    Interesting thread. I am thankful for all the advice I have been given on here. I thought I was doing well with my Onkyo AVRs until I tried the Pioneer Elite. Not all watts are created equal. That's all I will say

  21. #51

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    I went from an Onkyo 3008 which is not a shabby AVR by any means, my SC35 sounded way better and didn't break in the first few months. There's a reason they're recommended so often.
    Theater Room: Pioneer Elite SC-35, RTi12's, Csi5, Fxi5's, Fxi3's, ED A5-350 sub, Optoma HD20, 92'' Elite Screen, Xbox One, APC H15, MIT Exp 2 SC's, Pepster PC's

    Living Room: Martin Logan EM ESL's, Peachtree Audio iNova, MIT AVT2 SC's & IC's, Pepster PC, Sharp Aquos 60'', Sony BDP S-790, Airport Express

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  22. #52

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    At least your name is fitting. You have to be mindless to be as ignorant and defiant as you are.


    Sorry, was that a fail?
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  23. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSkip View Post
    At least your name is fitting. You have to be mindless to be as ignorant and defiant as you are.


    Sorry, was that a fail?
    Nope. It's a PASS. You need to have multiple question marks in the middle of your sentence to fail.

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    "What we've got here is failure to communicate
    Some men you just can't reach
    So you get what we had here last week,
    which is the way he wants it
    Well, he gets it
    N' I don't like it any more than you men"

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  25. #55

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    I believe an old saying comes to mind.....You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

    Another guy who reads junk on the internet to validate the answers he wants to hear. Typical.....

  26. #56

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    Anyone else think mindless and jestered are the same person? I mean, the odds of 2 people being like that are astronomical.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  27. #57

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    reading here is what it must be what it is like when a group of old men sit around a table in a closed room and laugh at each others farts

  28. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by MindlessCorpse View Post
    reading here is what it must be what it is like when a group of old men sit around a table in a closed room and laugh at each others farts
    Try elevators.
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Essence Audio HDACC, Douglas IC's, Douglas Alpha bi-wire SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

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    Quote Originally Posted by MindlessCorpse View Post
    reading here is what it must be what it is like when a group of old men sit around a table in a closed room and laugh at each others farts
    Don't try that at home my good man, leave the farts to the professionals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    Here's an excellent article about what bi-amping is and is not, http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm

    The Denon weights 20.7 pounds, the Elite SC series weigh twice that. Hell, the power supply for my main 2 channel amp weighs over 40 lbs. alone.

    Whoever told you your Denon has a power supply for each amp channel is mistaken. Yes, it has discrete amp channels, but they still share one power supply.
    I see you have chosen to ignore this post. Your name is indeed fitting.
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