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Thread: whats next?

  1. #1

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    Default whats next?

    After going from Logitech z5300 to the Lsim 703 and a SVS sb12nsd sub, and getting to have experience 'true' music for the first time.I have to ask, where do I go from here?I don't plan on anything special for an amp as I rarely blast my music anyways.For my next upgrade, I plan to go with a Submersive Subwoofer, but am totally clueless about what to go for with the speakers.I am from toronto and have no clue where I can listen to some of the higher end speakers,thus have no way of knowing what to expect were I to go for something the magnapan 3.7.

    So I want to ask from more experience member on this board.What can I expect were I to shell out say 5-10 k for better speakers?Oh I know a'lot of you would probably recommend room treatment,but I have no idea how the room would affect the sound or what to look for in the differences.I'll start experimenting with that as soon as we move into our new house.

    FYI-I HATE loud music before the lsim but after...omg once in a while when I do crank it up I get a big grin on my face the clarity is something that I've never experience with the Logitechs.

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    Get your learn on on the rest of the components in your system. What's your entire chain, including cables?
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Douglas IC's, AQ cv-8 SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

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    If you get Maggies you are going to need a good amp.
    2 Channel-
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSkip View Post
    Get your learn on on the rest of the components in your system. What's your entire chain, including cables?
    Denon x4000 as the avr,monoprice cables for the sub and some 50-60 dollar 100 foot speaker cables.TBH I did not think cable would affect a system unless they were defects but ofc I'm new to all this so am very open minded lol.

    Fyi-I also had no clue speakers can also make songs sound worse lol... Some of the details that I did not know existed in some of my songs came out, and boy was I shock.

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    That experience is not isolated to just the speakers. I'm trying to find an article that did a good job explaining this. Receivers give you a compromised design and won't come close to offering you the full sonic benefits of those 703's.
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Douglas IC's, AQ cv-8 SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSkip View Post
    thanks great looking article, will read as soon as I can.

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    It's sound very useful!thank you!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by posport View Post
    It's sound very useful!thank you!!
    Yes Thanks! I was able to save as a PDF for future reference

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    I don't plan on anything special for an amp as I rarely blast my music anyways.
    A high end amp is about sound quality at any volume level. You're not getting quality sound using an AVR, cheap cables and God knows what source.. Invest that money in a quality amp, pre amp, source and cables.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    A high end amp is about sound quality at any volume level. You're not getting quality sound using an AVR, cheap cables and God knows what source.. Invest that money in a quality amp, pre amp, source and cables.
    I've actually spent a little bit of time today trying to figure out why what you're saying would be true. I'm not saying you're not right, but am wondering if you could explain why, or how?

    I have been considering getting an amp to push my Polk setup, so started researching. From what I can tell there's two reasons people get dedicated amps:

    1. Louder audio. Ok. I get this and it's simple to figure out how that happens. More watts, louder audio without distortion. Great!

    2. It sounds better at any volume level. This is where I am having a hard time confirming this to be true. I have a Pioneer Elite VSX-53 AVR. It's spec'd at 110 WPC, but bench tested to put out 81 watts when driving 7 channels (what I'm doing). That basically has me putting out somewhere around 88 decibels, at the listening position, when supplying only 1 watt of power to my speakers. 10 watts going to the speakers put it around 98 decibels. The full 81 watts has me sitting at about 108 decibels. I would never listen to my set up at that level. I honestly would never listen to it at 88 decibels (1 watt of power). So, I'm using less than 1 watt of power at any given time when watching/listening to my setup.

    Now, what is it about adding an amp that is going to provide any real world sound quality improvements. Adding an amp to get louder undistorted audio make sense, but I cannot figure out how adding an amp, and not using it to gain louder audio, is achieving anything at all.

    I'll likely buy an amp if I can find out how it offers any improvement for my needs. But I'm not going to drink the cool-aid because of some wide-spread placebo effect. I really am interested in the idea, but no one seems to be able to answer the question about "how" an amp using 1 watt of power offers any real world improvement over what I'm using now.

    Any input would be appreciated!
    Samsung 65" ES8000 LED
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    Polk RT15i's - Side Surrounds
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    Its all about the quality of tone, low distortion amps can still sound rough

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    The placebo effect gets applied to all audiophiles, but the real reason is that we know how and what to listen for. Any component imparts its own effect on the sound, and ignoring any component has the potential to bring the entire system down to that components level. There are a multitude of changes an amp can make to a system and providing a sole example or reason is insufficient.

    2 channel is fun because all you have is the music, and each piece of the presentation is much more evident - things like soundstage width, depth, micro details, how holographic the sound is, decay... All just the tip of the iceberg.
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Douglas IC's, AQ cv-8 SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSkip View Post
    The placebo effect gets applied to all audiophiles, but the real reason is that we know how and what to listen for. Any component imparts its own effect on the sound, and ignoring any component has the potential to bring the entire system down to that components level. There are a multitude of changes an amp can make to a system and providing a sole example or reason is insufficient.

    2 channel is fun because all you have is the music, and each piece of the presentation is much more evident - things like soundstage width, depth, micro details, how holographic the sound is, decay... All just the tip of the iceberg.
    Thanks for your response DSkip, but that basically further makes me believe that there's no discernible difference when adding an amp and not using the extra wattage that it provides. If it takes an audiophile to hear the difference, then it must be a pretty small difference and not something that a non-audiophile would be able to hear. This, at least to me, means that all these claims by non-audiophiles are the placebo effect at its best. I just can't see how these claims that the speakers "really come to life" after adding an amp is real. Using a dedicated amp to push 200 watts to these speakers makes sense, but using 1 watt of power out of a dedicated amp cannot provide these drastic changes that people claim. That must be true especially for non-audiophiles where most these massive improvements are reported. Am I missing something here?
    Last edited by Jestered; 10-13-2013 at 03:51 PM.
    Samsung 65" ES8000 LED
    Pioneer Elite VSX-53
    Polk RTiA5's - Front Towers
    Polk CSiA6 - Center Channel
    Polk RT15i's - Side Surrounds
    Polk FXiA4's - Rear Surrounds
    SVS PB-1000 - Subwoofer
    URC MX5000 - Remote

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    You haven't heard Maggie's on different amps then. In many cases the difference is not subtle and those even my wife has picked up on. If you want a cheap experiment, go grab a cheap baby marantz and do a comparison with your favorite song. The difference will blow you away. Your receiver is a compromised design... Adding a component meant to just power your speakers will add sonic benefits. Even though the marantz is still a receiver, it was built with sound quality in mind and not the bells and whistles like your pioneer.
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Douglas IC's, AQ cv-8 SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

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    Much to learn you have, young Padawan. :)

    It's about quality not quantity. There are amps out there that put out fewer than 10 watts that will blow your AVR away.

    I have only one suggestion:

    Stop reading stuff on the internet. Find a good deal on a quality used amp and buy it. Put it in your system. Listen to it with YOUR ears and see how appreciable the difference is to YOU. Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, and you won't know your stance on the topic until you try it. Period.

    If you want to take the easy way out and convince yourself that amps don't make a difference without ever trying it for yourself then you don't get what this hobby is about.

    Get an amp. Give it whirl.

    Congrats on the 703's btw, i LOVE those speakers! ...and they do deserve better than an AVR :)
    2-Channel:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jestered View Post
    Now, what is it about adding an amp that is going to provide any real world sound quality improvements. Adding an amp to get louder undistorted audio make sense, but I cannot figure out how adding an amp, and not using it to gain louder audio, is achieving anything at all....<Snip>.... Adding an amp to get louder undistorted audio make sense, but I cannot figure out how adding an amp, and not using it to gain louder audio, is achieving anything at all.
    Hello, Jestered. Good question. I used to wonder the same thing until I went into the separate amp route years ago. The best way to explain this would be that when you get a well chosen higher quality amplifier [as opposed to an AVR], the sound gets better across the entire volume spectrum. For example, with an AVR, you listen at lower volumes and the lower registers are not very prevalent. Yes, you may have a system to where you can "hear" something trying to be reproduced in the lower registers but you will definitely not hear them....let alone feel them with any sense of weight or authority. You usually have to turn it up to reasonable listening levels or higher in order for the lower registers to be worthy of enjoying across the entire frequency range.

    Listening at lower volume levels with a well chosen amp is as much a pleasure as it is listening at higher volume levels and there is no need to turn it up to enjoy the entire frequency range. Adding a well chosen amp can bring a better sound stage, imaging, depth, impact, detail, decay and a plethora of other things that you didn't even know could exist.....simply because you haven't heard what is possible. The best thing is what you don't hear. Lowering a noise floor with a well chosen amp can reveal things that were previously masked by unwanted artifacts. This brings you closer to the music than before and reveals things within the music [at low and high volume levels, mind you] that you never really knew existed before.

    This makes listening pleasure that much more enjoyable. When you want to hear ALL of the music, you do not need to turn it up. Just turn it on and enjoy. With that said, with a well chosen amp, when the time comes to turn it up? Everything that you experienced with a lower listening level remains the same without experiencing any sound stage collapse, imaging blending or loss of coherency. One other thing, with a well chosen amp, you do not have to strain to hear things. Whether it be in an HT system or a 2-channel system and you will find this out after the install of a good amp. At the higher volume levels and with the well chosen amp, the lower registers get faster, less bloated, have more impact and present a more realistic reproduction of the source than one would ever think possible if their only exposure has been with any AVR....regardless of price, build, bi-amp capability or topology.

    Just for your knowledge, I have had an 8 watt tube amp outperform [in spades] all of the AVR's that have come and gone throughout the years. It wasn't any placebo effect, it was actually a surprise....and a pleasant one at that. While I could have typed all of my thoughts on this subject, I really do not feel like sitting down at this computer for another hour or two so please just accept this post as one that hits the "real world" - most relevant points - of why one would want a well chosen amp. I hope this answers your inquiry.

    Tom
    Last edited by treitz3; 10-13-2013 at 09:58 PM.
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    "The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction". - Kenneth Swauger

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    Quote Originally Posted by falconcry72 View Post
    Much to learn you have, young Padawan. :)

    It's about quality not quantity. There are amps out there that put out fewer than 10 watts that will blow your AVR away.

    I have only one suggestion:

    Stop reading stuff on the internet. Find a good deal on a quality used amp and buy it. Put it in your system. Listen to it with YOUR ears and see how appreciable the difference is to YOU. Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, and you won't know your stance on the topic until you try it. Period.

    If you want to take the easy way out and convince yourself that amps don't make a difference without ever trying it for yourself then you don't get what this hobby is about.

    Get an amp. Give it whirl.

    Congrats on the 703's btw, i LOVE those speakers! ...and they do deserve better than an AVR :)
    Ah thanks I'll def give it a whirl.If no improvement is noticed,at least I won't regret the 'what ifs'.As for people saying that certain things could be a placebo.Even if that was the reality, as long as your mind perceives it, it is real.So even a placebo is a upgrade LOL.

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    There's nothing placebo about it and anyone that thinks that is either deaf, inexperienced or simply a moron.

    The power supply is key and as you found out from your bench test, your AVR's is lacking. In addition, your premise that 1 watt is 1 watt is flawed. All watts are not created equal. Treitz3 did a pretty good job explaining it.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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    skky, don't forget to read that article if you haven't. It is by far the best explanation of system-building I've read. Like Jesse said, there is nothing placebo about these upgrades and every component in a system matters. The article has a very good analogy in there that would explain why you might not get the full impact of a cable change or amp change in an 'entry level' system, but in a slightly better system, those same components might be glaring issues or completely change the sound.

    There are too many that have heard the difference, too many skeptic-turned-believers, for these things to be merely a placebo effect. The skeptics I've seen fit into two categories - those with less than desirable systems, and those who only listen for tonal balance and overall impact of the music. While the latter is part of the equation, there is so much more to stereo reproduction than just those two aspects.
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Douglas IC's, AQ cv-8 SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

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    Tom- That's all good information. Thanks for sharing. But, I'm still trying to find the answer to "how"? I've been told by many people what a dedicated amp will do, but no one has given any answer to "how" this is achieved.

    Let me preface the following by saying that I'm not trying to piss off a lot of people here by telling you that you're wrong. I'm trying to get an answer to how this is achieved because my basic knowledge of electronics and physics says there's no difference. Well, not in all cases, but it appears to be the case with my setup and needs. I really could care less if any of you use an amp or not. That's your decision to make and if it works for you, then great! I'm trying to get this question answered so it will help me in the decision of whether or not I would gain anything by adding a dedicated amp. That's all.

    In my case I have a Pioneer Elite VSX-53 and the bench tests I've found show that it did very well. Not perfect, but close to it. Here's the summary of the tests and the link to the full results follow:

    "Pioneer’s VSX-52 aced most every test-bench requirement. Beginning with output power, it easily bettered its 110-watt specs, maintaining an impressive 80-plus watts even into 7 channels. (And the Pioneer did so without drawing down the AC line as heavily as most amps or receivers do.)

    Nearly everything else measured excellently — PCM signal/noise was virtually perfect — with two exceptions. Our dithered “fade-to-noise” noise-modulation test revealed a noise increase of 2 dB at the transition from –72 to –73 dBFS, suggesting a bit error or component-value problem in the D/A conversion or current-to-voltage circuitry. (I tried my best to hear this on headphones via David Ranada’s noise-mod listening tracks but could not hear any repeatable effects to my satisfaction.) Second, subwoofer-output distortion under 6-channel, full-scale stress was high at 7% (though the audibility of even this level at 31 Hz is still debatable). However, this isn’t terribly real world, and since 2-channel excitation at the same levels and frequency showed no sign of incipient clipping, I would not give it much weight."

    The full test results can be found here if you're interested:

    http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...eceiver-page-4

    I've already said that I'm not looking for louder audio, so the amp I was looking at was the Emotiva UPA-500, which is an 80WPC amp. That's the same real-world WPC that I'm getting out of the Pioneer, so I'm fine with that. If you look at the bench tests that were performed on my AVR model, and compare that to the specs on the Emotiva amp, they are very close to each other. They are both very clean with little distortion. So, with my AVR, and the Emotiva amp, what is it about the amp that is going to make my speakers "come to life"?

    The power is the same, the distortion and everything else appears to be comparable, so I can't figure out how anything is really going to change by adding this amp.

    A few other things... I'm not a deaf or a moron, so that's not it. Also, all watts are created equal. A watt is simply a unit measurement. A watt is the measurement of one joule of energy per second. If that changes in any way, it's not a watt any longer. Saying all watts are not created equal is like saying all inches are not created equal. I know I'm being very literal here, but that's what I'm looking for here. A literal scientific answer as to how a dedicated amp, that has the same specs as my AVR, is going to make any difference. Where is this drastic change supposed to come from?

    The real important thing here is the frequency being sent to the speakers. That's where the good stuff is created and output from the speaker, right? So, is there something about a dedicated amp that handles the frequency of what's being sent differently? This is where I hit another road-block. Even if it did handle the frequency differently, what is it doing? If it's changing the frequency, that's not going to make it sound better, just different. That also means that either the AVR or the amp is producing an inaccurate frequency, which causes the speaker to output inaccurate audio compared to what the source intended. Either way, that's not going to make anything sound better, just different. Unless of course whichever device is modifying the source frequency is so far off that it just sounds horrible. I don't think that is the case, or no one would own these Pioneer Elite receivers.

    So finally, again, what is it about sending 1 watt from this Emotiva amp is going to sound any different from 1 watt coming from my AVR? They both spec out nicely and comparably, so where's this big change supposed to come from?

    I'm trying to look at and discuss this from a physics view point, not "just because". I am not claiming to know everything about any of this, but the little I do know says nothing will change. At least with the equipment I've referenced here. You can tell me that 1+1=10 all day long, but I know for a fact that's not true. That doesn't mean I'm not missing part of the equation. Am I missing the part of the equation that would scientifically equal 10? That's what I'm looking for. What part of the equation am I missing? That's all I'm asking.

    And if I were trying to convince myself that my AVR is all I need, I would have stopped a long time ago. On the contrary I'm trying to do everything I can to get an answer that is not "just because" so I can purchase an amp and enjoy all the audio bliss that everyone else here claims. But I don't want to do that based on something that can't be backed up with factual evidence.
    Samsung 65" ES8000 LED
    Pioneer Elite VSX-53
    Polk RTiA5's - Front Towers
    Polk CSiA6 - Center Channel
    Polk RT15i's - Side Surrounds
    Polk FXiA4's - Rear Surrounds
    SVS PB-1000 - Subwoofer
    URC MX5000 - Remote

  22. #22

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    A wise man once said this...

    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not"

    Numbers are just that. Numbers. You can't listen to them.

    BTW, you don't have to go out and buy a dedicated amp. Just listen to a well chosen one and decide......let me rephrase that. Let your EARS decide whether or not the empirical evidence suggests correctly. Does it really matter "how"? It sure doesn't to me. I can't hear the numbers but I damn sure do enjoy the music!

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    "The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction". - Kenneth Swauger

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    I already gave you the answer, "The power supply is key and as you found out from your bench test, your AVR's is lacking." And NO, all watts are not created equal, but as long as you're hung up on specs, you'll never know that.

    How about instead of asking for proof, you just buy an amp and find out for yourself like the rest of us? Geesh!
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

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    Lets make it simple:

    Take a Wal-Mart guitar, amp, and lamp cord and put it in a crappy room along with a crappy drum set. How well do you think the band will sound?
    Home Theater:Samsung8000-55LED,Pioneer SC35, Pioneer DV-79AVi, Sunfire TGA7201, LSi25, LCi RTSc, LC80i
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jestered View Post
    Thanks for your response DSkip, but that basically further makes me believe that there's no discernible difference when adding an amp and not using the extra wattage that it provides. If it takes an audiophile to hear the difference, then it must be a pretty small difference and not something that a non-audiophile would be able to hear. This, at least to me, means that all these claims by non-audiophiles are the placebo effect at its best. I just can't see how these claims that the speakers "really come to life" after adding an amp is real. Using a dedicated amp to push 200 watts to these speakers makes sense, but using 1 watt of power out of a dedicated amp cannot provide these drastic changes that people claim. That must be true especially for non-audiophiles where most these massive improvements are reported. Am I missing something here?
    You are missing everything actually...

    A watt is not always a watt. I too have a Pioneer Elite, but to power my mains, I have roughly 400 watts of tube power. My first real experience with external amps was with a Carver TFM 35 through a Yamaha AVR. My jaw dropped at the improvement in sound. The difference was in no was subtle. All AVR's, including the best of the best, are an exercise in compromise, just to get everything inside the box. Smaller power supplies, miniaturized everything else, and parts costs reduced to the bare minimums all produce subtle but very audible differences in sound quality.

    All you need to do is visit Ebay and grab up a 250 wpc quality external amp and plug it in to hear the difference for yourself.
    HT Setup... Pioneer Elite SC-37, Polk Audio SDA-SRS 1.2TL's , Oppo BDP 93
    Two Channel... Carver Statement 450~1 Vacuum Tube Monoblocks, Dodd Mid-line Tube Linestage with Psvane 12Ax7 tubes, Pioneer Pdd 9Mk II SACD Player, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable with Sumiko BPS EvoIII, Polk Audio SDA-SRS 1.2TLs.


    "Everything we have fought for has been lost, and everything we fought against, we have become...."

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jestered View Post
    I've already said that I'm not looking for louder audio, so the amp I was looking at was the Emotiva UPA-500, which is an 80WPC amp. That's the same real-world WPC that I'm getting out of the Pioneer, so I'm fine with that. If you look at the bench tests that were performed on my AVR model, and compare that to the specs on the Emotiva amp, they are very close to each other. They are both very clean with little distortion. So, with my AVR, and the Emotiva amp, what is it about the amp that is going to make my speakers "come to life"?

    The power is the same, the distortion and everything else appears to be comparable, so I can't figure out how anything is really going to change by adding this amp.
    In this case, I would stay with the AVR and save your money. You will not see any improvement given the information you provided above. I would suggest getting something with al least 200wpc on tap. Denon, Rotel, Parasound and others come to mind here. Emo is fine too, just not my cup of tea, and not the way I would go with my 703's.
    Last edited by nooshinjohn; 10-14-2013 at 09:51 PM.
    HT Setup... Pioneer Elite SC-37, Polk Audio SDA-SRS 1.2TL's , Oppo BDP 93
    Two Channel... Carver Statement 450~1 Vacuum Tube Monoblocks, Dodd Mid-line Tube Linestage with Psvane 12Ax7 tubes, Pioneer Pdd 9Mk II SACD Player, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable with Sumiko BPS EvoIII, Polk Audio SDA-SRS 1.2TLs.


    "Everything we have fought for has been lost, and everything we fought against, we have become...."

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    F1nut- You didn't answer anything. "The amp" is your answer. What about the amp? I've already shown it's putting out the same clean undistorted wattage using either. So what is it that's different? Never mind. I don't need an answer.

    Tom- I appreciate your responses. I didn't get the answer I was hoping, but at least you provided some good information without the need to feel like you had to get all worked up about it.

    I'll move on. It's a shame. I thought this Polk forum was a little different, but apparently not. The same "agree with the masses and don't question us or else" attitude that every other forum has.
    Samsung 65" ES8000 LED
    Pioneer Elite VSX-53
    Polk RTiA5's - Front Towers
    Polk CSiA6 - Center Channel
    Polk RT15i's - Side Surrounds
    Polk FXiA4's - Rear Surrounds
    SVS PB-1000 - Subwoofer
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  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by nooshinjohn View Post
    In this case, I would stay with the AVR and save your money.
    That is the logical conclusion I was coming to. I was hoping someone could explain how it's actually different, but... Thanks for the response.
    Samsung 65" ES8000 LED
    Pioneer Elite VSX-53
    Polk RTiA5's - Front Towers
    Polk CSiA6 - Center Channel
    Polk RT15i's - Side Surrounds
    Polk FXiA4's - Rear Surrounds
    SVS PB-1000 - Subwoofer
    URC MX5000 - Remote

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jestered View Post
    F1nut- You didn't answer anything. "The amp" is your answer. What about the amp? I've already shown it's putting out the same clean undistorted wattage using either. So what is it that's different? Never mind. I don't need an answer.

    Tom- I appreciate your responses. I didn't get the answer I was hoping, but at least you provided some good information without the need to feel like you had to get all worked up about it.


    I'll move on. It's a shame. I thought this Polk forum was a little different, but apparently not. The same "agree with the masses and don't question us or else" attitude that every other forum has.
    Your last post was over the top sir...

    The reason why an amp is better than an AVR is because of a more pure signal path. There is less interference between the source and the speaker. The amp can have a larger power supply and more robust energy storage, meaning that when the speaker demands current, the amp, with a larger power supply and the capacitance to deliver it, will out-perform the AVR even at modest levels.
    HT Setup... Pioneer Elite SC-37, Polk Audio SDA-SRS 1.2TL's , Oppo BDP 93
    Two Channel... Carver Statement 450~1 Vacuum Tube Monoblocks, Dodd Mid-line Tube Linestage with Psvane 12Ax7 tubes, Pioneer Pdd 9Mk II SACD Player, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable with Sumiko BPS EvoIII, Polk Audio SDA-SRS 1.2TLs.


    "Everything we have fought for has been lost, and everything we fought against, we have become...."

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jestered View Post
    That is the logical conclusion I was coming to. I was hoping someone could explain how it's actually different, but... Thanks for the response.
    You will need to look at better amps if you want to hear what having a good amp will do they absolutely do make a difference.
    HT Setup... Pioneer Elite SC-37, Polk Audio SDA-SRS 1.2TL's , Oppo BDP 93
    Two Channel... Carver Statement 450~1 Vacuum Tube Monoblocks, Dodd Mid-line Tube Linestage with Psvane 12Ax7 tubes, Pioneer Pdd 9Mk II SACD Player, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable with Sumiko BPS EvoIII, Polk Audio SDA-SRS 1.2TLs.


    "Everything we have fought for has been lost, and everything we fought against, we have become...."

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