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  1. #1

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    Default What's the appeal with stacking?

    I'm not asking this sarcastically, but seriously.
    |Fronts - Peerless RTA-12B | Center(s) - Peerless Monitor 5 | Rears - Peerless Monitor 4 |
    |Amp for fronts - Yamaha CA-1010 | Preamp (and amp for center/rears) - RX-V667 |
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  2. #2

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    more counter space

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    As far as I can tell, the whole phenomenon traces back to two progenitors:

    1) stacking Quad ESL-57 electrostatic loudspeakers - I think the primary driver was to improve HF dispersion. There were a couple of products based on this, IIRC. One was a special stand to hold pairs of Quads; the other was a super-high-end, high-performance, high-price :-) system from (???) the original Mark Levinson company (when he was associated with it).

    2) stacking The Original Large Advent (OLA) loudspeakers - this was suggested in a hifi magazine back in (?) the early 1970s and has maintained some kind of life of its own.

    Sorry, I don't have time at the moment to come up with more specific info via google :-P
    all the best,
    mrh

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    Appeal to stacking ??

    Dude.....stacking or "stacked" means something different to me. Similar to "open rack". Darn, audio is a very perverted hobby, or is it just me ?

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    Because I have more speakers in the mancave that I like than space? Too much gear as well. I stacked some small JVC w/ some Klipsch KB-21s to good effect on my garage system. I dunno, I just like the low end of my Altec 886a's. I have fun w/ other vintage stuff on top of it.
    2 Channel: Oppo DV-981HD->XDA-2 ->UDA-200 ->Monitor 7 or Grado model SR225i
    HT:Denon 1913 Hsu VTF-1 MK2 sub
    AR-4x F / CS10 C / (4) Altec 849a S / Bozak 302a Sb
    Vintage: Pioneer SX-9000 Rotel TT (2) Crown Com-Tech 210 amps mono bridged
    Polk RT-7 or Altec 886a or Dynaco A25s

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    "stacked" means something different to me"
    Me too.

  7. #7
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    Ah Mark, you mean the Levinson HQD system:
    http://stewartaxton.wordpress.com/20...ere-were-four/
    One of the top 10 speaker systems of all time.

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    So I was at least on track, right? Yeah, that's them :-)
    I only have two ESL-57s, So I could only do that in mono at my house... hmmm... maybe I should cobble up some... Quadstands ;-)

    If a few more Polkies had stacked Quads, the tenor of some discussion here might be a wee bit different ;-)

    From Ken's most excellent site reference:

    ĎAnother thing people like to do is to use two of our panels, one above the other. This is quite reasonable because it is really a strip source, you can extend the strip source without deteriorating anything. All you do is add 6dB at the bottom and 3 dB everywhere else. It gives you a louder sound, a more impressive sound. Thatís all right.í

    -Peter Walker in Audio Amateur, 1978
    Peter Walker, of course, was "Mr. Quad ESL"... the Matt Polk of full-range electrostatic loudspeakers :-)

    (actually, in all fairness, there were numerous full-range electrostatics in the 1950s - Pickering had one, and so did Henry Kloss - the KLH Nine - which was in essence a stereo, horizontal stack!)
    Last edited by mhardy6647; 10-30-2013 at 03:43 PM.
    all the best,
    mrh

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    I stack smaller speakers at night time listening to get the mids little more to my liking without cranking the towers too high.
    I have tried with small speakers like Tannoy C-6, Polk 4, B&W DM110i etc... and some combo really sounds more open, airy and nice.

    Boston A400,VR950, DefTech BP10,, Klipsch Forte,KSP-400,KSF-C5,RF3,RC3.
    JBL L20t,L80t3, EPI 20+,T/E 280, Polk 4,4.5,7C, KEF Coda III, Yamaha NS-690, Genesis 3+.
    SUB:Deftech PF15TL+, DCM TB1010, Velodyne VA08BVX10. Pre: HK AP2500. Amps: BB175, Adcom GFA-535,555II, Rotel RB-990BX.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb View Post
    Appeal to stacking ??

    Dude.....stacking or "stacked" means something different to me. Similar to "open rack". Darn, audio is a very perverted hobby, or is it just me ?
    Dude it's you it is the frustration from last weekend with all the beach bunnies running around the house

  11. #11
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    I believe I have that Audio Amateur article, in it says the best way to position his speakers is to draw a diagonal line from corner to corner. Then measure out one third of the length of these lines, put the speakers in that spot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhardy6647 View Post
    As far as I can tell, the whole phenomenon traces back to two progenitors:
    1) .......................
    2) stacking The Original Large Advent (OLA) loudspeakers - this was suggested in a hifi magazine back in (?) the early 1970s and has maintained some kind of life of its own.
    It was 'The Absolute Sound' magazine. We did it (already had 2 speakers) and they were very nice at a rather low cost. But the problem was, you had two tweeters separated by a foot or more interfering each other.

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    So there are sound benefits to stacking? I was under the impression that it would create a "wall of sound" but ruin things like imaging.
    |Fronts - Peerless RTA-12B | Center(s) - Peerless Monitor 5 | Rears - Peerless Monitor 4 |
    |Amp for fronts - Yamaha CA-1010 | Preamp (and amp for center/rears) - RX-V667 |
    |TV - Philips 46" Smart LED | Gaming - Xbox One - Xbox 360 | Headphones - Philips Fidelio X1 |

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    Because it looks so cool...


    http://www.wallofsound.ws/

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    I remember stacking advents in the audio store I worked in back in 1978. And it did look cool!
    Main Rig:
    Krell KAV 250a
    McIntosh MC 2120 bi-amped
    Into JBL L123 drivers
    Rane external crossover.
    MIT exp 1 ic's
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    Monster HTS 3600 power conditioner
    POLK RTA-12C'S W/ RDO194 TWEETS, clarity ESA caps mills risistors (full mod)
    MIT exps2 speaker cable

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    I stack the dishes, they fit better that way...
    HT/Main- Panny 50" G10 Plasma, Pioneer Elite VSX01 AVR, Panny DMP-BD60 BDP, Polk LS90 mains, CS350LS center, LS/fx side surrounds, LS50 surround backs, SVS 25-31PC+ sub, Harmony One

    Office Rig- Marantz 2252B, Sony CDP-C8ESD CDP, Kenwood KD2070 TT, Polk RTA 12B's

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by leftwinger57 View Post
    Because it looks so cool...


    http://www.wallofsound.ws/
    That was a little bit different ;-)
    all the best,
    mrh

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb View Post
    Appeal to stacking ??

    Dude.....stacking or "stacked" means something different to me. Similar to "open rack". Darn, audio is a very perverted hobby, or is it just me ?
    A stack of class A is not that impressive to some. ;-)

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfall View Post
    So there are sound benefits to stacking? I was under the impression that it would create a "wall of sound" but ruin things like imaging.
    Stacking does create a wall of sound which can admittedly be impressive at times. However, it will also smear the imaging badly and can create lobing issues.

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction.

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    "Stacking does create a wall of sound which can admittedly be impressive at times. However, it will also smear the imaging badly and can create lobing issues"

    I think it is actually called "comb filtering" issues.

    Here is an article on column speakers that get into stacking by Roger Russell: Author, Artist, Engineer, Inventor, Photographer, Collector, and formerly Director of Acoustic Research & McIntosh Laboratory, Inc. and the originator of McIntosh Loudspeakers

    http://www.roger-russell.com/columns/columns.htm#single

  21. #21

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    I think I'll slide out now.....

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction.

  22. #22

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    Note Peter Walker's comments above on stacking line sources, quoted on the link Ken Swauger kindly provided.
    This is quite reasonable because it is really a strip source, you can extend the strip source without deteriorating anything. All you do is add 6dB at the bottom and 3 dB everywhere else. It gives you a louder sound, a more impressive sound. That’s all right.’
    So, yeah, lobing/comb filtering is a concern when arbitrarily stacking two "monkey coffin" conventional direct radiator loudspeakers - although in a large enough space, it might not be a big deal... with other loudspeaker configurations, it can be a non-issue.
    all the best,
    mrh

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