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  1. #1

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    Default Lusting over vintage Marantz - advice?

    Not sure if this belongs in the 2-channel or electronics forums.


    I've been lusting over a vintage Marantz receiver for quite some time now. I'm in no hurry to make any purchases but would like to gather some secondhand experience. I in no way need any of the monster Marantz receivers that go for several hundred dollars and up but would be completely happy with a smaller unit like a 1030 or 2216. Eventually I would like to build a nice little 2-channel system around this (I hear vintage Polks go well with these receivers).

    From your experience are they any models to look for or stay away from? I'm looking to spend very little on this and can wait as long as I have to to find something around $100-150. I'll take as much info as you have time to give me. Any other advice and input would also be appreciated.
    Display: LG 47" LCD | AVR: Marantz SR5005 | BD: Panasonic BDT-210 | CD/SACD: Oppo 980 |
    Amps: Rotel RB-990bx | Marantz MA-500 | Speakers: Totem Mite : Totem Mite-C : RC60i | Sub: HSU VTF-2 MKIV

    HK AVR635 | Polk R30 | Sony DVD/SACD Player

  2. #2

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    I think they are overpriced on the used/vintage market relative to their sonic qualities. I find the 22xx Marantzes by and large to be grainy and "solid-state-y" sounding. They do have a certain Rococo, more is more flair to their cosmetics, though - which as far as I am concerned is what gives 'em their resale value.

    I prefer the sound of all the other massmarket Japanese hardware of the era (even Technics) to the Superscope-era Marantz products, FWIW.
    all the best,
    mrh

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    A 2216 will change your mind on what a low powered AND vintage piece can achieve. The only speaker I've run across that didn't pair well with min was a pair of Vienna Acoustic bookshelves. For a cheap entry, a 2215 or 2216 is likely your best bet. I could be wrong, but I think that is THE generation of Marantzes to own at least once in your life.

    Mr. H, is your statement in line with ALL of them, or the higher powered ones? I haven't experienced much grain in mine and have also never heard the bigger brothers.
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Douglas IC's, AQ cv-8 SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

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    The Generation of Marantzes to own at least once in one's life is the one this amp belongs to:

    all the best,
    mrh

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    I owned a number of Marantz receivers during the '70s. I found the Marantz to be average in sonic qualities, I actually preferred some Sony and Pioneer units over the Marantz. I think that owners of the older Marantz receivers have to upgrade their power caps as they tended to leak with age.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhardy6647 View Post
    The Generation of Marantzes to own at least once in one's life is the one this amp belongs to:

    Shhhh!

    Have you had the opportunity to own some of those tubed pieces?
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Douglas IC's, AQ cv-8 SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

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    Honestly, I have not heard the lower power Marantz yet? But, to me, the 2245, 2265, and 2275 sound pretty much alike. I don't know what Marantz fanboys are talking about when they say they can hear a difference here?

    That said, I do not find these Marantz grainy, but then again, my ears are a tad older the mhardy's (hear all kind of things coming from them, at times-high pitched sounds, subsonic rumbling, ringing, depending on what I ate or how much sleep I got the night before), lol This is not to say there are not other receivers I prefer, like my HK 430, 730 (Pioneer SX-838 and Yamaha CR-800), etc. If anything, the Marantz sound is a bit rolled off on the top making it a good match for cheap CDPs? You won't hear anything "harsh" with a sub $10 used CDP on a Marantz--don't have to worry about DACs or jitter or...(they are a cheap solution for digital glare).

    I have a set of KLH 17s that I prefer on other vintage receivers. They don't sync up well with Marantz IMO. But for some unknown reason, I find my Monitor 10As love the 2265. Maybe it's a combination of sound signature and power? Maybe not. But the 10s just seem to like that unit for whatever reasons. I should put my 5s and 7s on it to see what they sound like. Because I do believe that vintage Monitors have some weird synergy with these Marantz units?

    cnh
    Last edited by cnh; 10-25-2013 at 02:20 PM.
    Onkyo TX-SR 805 System #1 HT AVR
    Office Two Channel: LSi-7s (Nakamichi CA-5, NAD 214, Pioneer BDP51fd)
    Vintage Polks: Polk Monitor 5As, Monitor 7Bs [HK 730], Monitor 10As [Marantz 2265], SDA-2Bs [Jolida JD-303, Jolida MV-MK4]
    Headphones: HD600, Q701, ATH-M50s etc. Bravo Audio Ocean amp., Onkyo P-304, Adcom GFA-555, Technics Direct Drive TT

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSkip View Post
    Shhhh!

    Have you had the opportunity to own some of those tubed pieces?
    No, but I got to restore that one for someone :-) The 8B is a superb amplifier.
    all the best,
    mrh

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSkip View Post
    Shhhh!

    Have you had the opportunity to own some of those tubed pieces?
    I'm pretty sure that is in the permanent fold, or one like it? As those early tube Marantz are a favorite of true collectors. I haven't heard one myself, but I have no doubt that it's a very very nice piece!

    cnh
    Onkyo TX-SR 805 System #1 HT AVR
    Office Two Channel: LSi-7s (Nakamichi CA-5, NAD 214, Pioneer BDP51fd)
    Vintage Polks: Polk Monitor 5As, Monitor 7Bs [HK 730], Monitor 10As [Marantz 2265], SDA-2Bs [Jolida JD-303, Jolida MV-MK4]
    Headphones: HD600, Q701, ATH-M50s etc. Bravo Audio Ocean amp., Onkyo P-304, Adcom GFA-555, Technics Direct Drive TT

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnh View Post
    If anything, the Marantz sound is a bit rolled off on the top making it a good match for cheap CDPs? You won't hear anything "harsh" with a sub $10 used CDP on a Marantz--don't have to worry about DACs or jitter or...(they are a cheap solution for digital glare).
    There is some roll-off there and is part of the reason why I feel that the older Marantz is one of a small class of vintage pieces that works well with newer speakers too. Other receivers have always pierced my ears on newer speaker designs. With vintage speakers, I could see the Marantz not having the magic of some offerings depending on synergy.
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Douglas IC's, AQ cv-8 SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

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    So the consensus so far is that I should be looking at Pioneers, Yammys, and Sonys because the Marantz's are a tad overpriced despite their pretty looks. Am I getting that right? I'll also take suggestions at good models to look at in other brands. Personal experience accounts are always appreciated!
    Display: LG 47" LCD | AVR: Marantz SR5005 | BD: Panasonic BDT-210 | CD/SACD: Oppo 980 |
    Amps: Rotel RB-990bx | Marantz MA-500 | Speakers: Totem Mite : Totem Mite-C : RC60i | Sub: HSU VTF-2 MKIV

    HK AVR635 | Polk R30 | Sony DVD/SACD Player

  12. #12

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    One word. Sansui.
    not as pretty as the Marantz, but sounds better.
    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by sucks2beme View Post
    One word. Sansui.
    not as pretty as the Marantz, but sounds better.
    Still got one? If so, it'd be fun to do a shootout between the two if you make it up. The only piece I have is a 1000a tuber from the 60's that needs an overhaul.
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Douglas IC's, AQ cv-8 SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

  14. #14

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    I have a vintage Sansui AU-999 and a Marantz 2245. Similar output power, I always preferred the sound of the Sansui, still warm but it seemed more accurate and imaged better than the Marantz.

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    I wouldn't call the Superscope-era Marantz receivers "a tad overpriced" - compare 'em to any of the other massmarket Japanese hardware of the same era on eBAY and see what you think...

    Sansui (the better ones, at least), Luxman and Yamaha will get you into sound quality that's still "good" by modern standards (i.e, it's good, period). Pioneer's got that solid-state sheen - sounds OK and certainly cheap enough on the used market... but not something I'd care to listen to often.

    That said... I will admit that I do have a couple of Pioneers, including one of the big silver monstrosities, though ;-)


    SX1050 by mhardy6647, on Flickr

    (heck, I've got a few Marantzes, too... but nothing that would impress anyone familiar with the marque)

    Kenwoods are kind of hit and miss - some are excellent; their tuners were generally very good performers and capable of good sound, too, with some judicious tweaking.

    Bear in mind that this stuff is all on the order of four decades old and needs some rehab to sound as it should - at the very least, the myriad electrolytic capacitors in the signal path should really be replaced. Modern electrolytics really are better...
    all the best,
    mrh

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    Quote Originally Posted by sucks2beme View Post
    One word. Sansui.
    not as pretty as the Marantz, but sounds better.
    This... If you can stretch it, I would be looking for an AU11000 or 22000 integrated. I still wish I could get my AU22000 back, but at the time money was more important.
    HT Setup... Pioneer Elite SC-37, Polk Audio SDA-SRS 1.2TL's , Oppo BDP 93
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    "Everything we have fought for has been lost, and everything we fought against, we have become...."

  17. #17

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    Nice pic mhardy! I remember the early 70's Marantz receivers were__ more expensive than the Pioneers, Technics and Sony's back then. Maybe even more than the Sansuis ? Didn't those early Marantz receivers have a gold tone to their front panel and the background of the tuner dial was black and the radio stations on the dial lit up with a blue color??? Man were they purty.

  18. #18

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    Yes some of the pre "B" Marantzes had champagne panels and engraved nomenclature on 'em - they were a whole notch better built than the "B" versions, too... a 2215 (unsuffixed) once passed through the basement - but it was pretty junked out and I never had the nerve to even smoke-test it...


    2215ambient by mhardy6647, on Flickr

    2215 innards by mhardy6647, on Flickr

    (I apologize that the tungsten-lit photo fails to convey the ever-so-slightly goldish 'champagne' tint of this receiver)



    In terms of Sansuis - the AU-717, which isn't all that crazily expensive on the current market, is a very fine (and very nice looking, too) amplifier. I really, really wouldn't mind having one... ;-)
    all the best,
    mrh

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    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Douglas IC's, AQ cv-8 SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

  20. #20

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    but I don't need another TU-717 ;-)

    EDIT: plus, Arlington, TX is a long ways away... Arlington, MA: OK Arlington, VA: maybe. Arlington, TX: not so much

    ;-)
    all the best,
    mrh

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhardy6647 View Post

    Bear in mind that this stuff is all on the order of four decades old and needs some rehab to sound as it should - at the very least, the myriad electrolytic capacitors in the signal path should really be replaced. Modern electrolytics really are better...
    I'd feel comfortable swapping out a few capacitors and cleaning the guts up a little bit if need be. Not looking for a total fixer upper though.
    Display: LG 47" LCD | AVR: Marantz SR5005 | BD: Panasonic BDT-210 | CD/SACD: Oppo 980 |
    Amps: Rotel RB-990bx | Marantz MA-500 | Speakers: Totem Mite : Totem Mite-C : RC60i | Sub: HSU VTF-2 MKIV

    HK AVR635 | Polk R30 | Sony DVD/SACD Player

  22. #22

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    I am certainly biased but I love my Yamaha CA-1010.

    CA-1010 and CA-2010 are excellent examples. Class A until 18 watts and automatically switches when pushed from 18 watts to 120 @ 4 ohms on the 1010 with the 2010 being slightly more powerful. Very good phono stage too, accepts MC or MM. Exceptional sound quality and exceptional build quality.

    I haven't heard the CR series receivers but I'd imagine they're good as well.
    |Fronts - Peerless RTA-12B | Center(s) - Peerless Monitor 5 | Rears - Peerless Monitor 4 |
    |Amp for fronts - Yamaha CA-1010 | Preamp (and amp for center/rears) - RX-V667 |
    |TV - Philips 46" Smart LED | Gaming - Xbox 360 | Headphones - Fidelio X1 |

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by drummer86 View Post
    I'd feel comfortable swapping out a few capacitors and cleaning the guts up a little bit if need be. Not looking for a total fixer upper though.
    I had a Marantz 2238B and I can say only good things about this beast, They were build to last not like the new plastic toys that you find in Best buys with all those craps of DSP and surround gadgets.
    Make it simple...Make it better!

  24. #24

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    Plenty of new stuff is built to last, too... viz. the current, top end Yamaha integrated amplifiers. The A-S2000 is top o'their current heap. Looks like something that would be worth a listen ;-)

    http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=502056

    http://www.theabsolutesound.com/arti...ources-part-2/


    http://media.tas.zeitpress.com/artic...ha_A-S2000.jpg

    EDIT: Actually the A-S3000 is the top of the heap... see (big) photos at: http://www.yamaha.com/YECDealerMedia/AD_amp_tune.htm

    Yes the CA-2010 and CA-1010 and their other top-end 1970s (and even early 1980s) Yamaha integrate amp brethren were nice pieces.



    DSC_8057 by mhardy6647, on Flickr

    My comment about refreshing capacitors (at least) applies - as a 'best practice' - to all 1970s-era electronics... time takes its toll. A vintage, "as found" amplifier or receiver may sound fine, but it will not be at its best now, 35-plus years later, without a few nips and tucks ;-)
    all the best,
    mrh

  25. #25

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    it is funny how they put the Yamaha amplifier in a Plexiglass . they show the guts and they are not so "wow"... if they wanted to "show off" this integrated amplifier's guts, they should have used double power supply (Real dual mono) and use of toroidal transformers, also check those "cheap" trimers and I hope those big cans caps are low ESR caps. I do not find anything that I can say "wow".... I would choose a Bryston B60 instead.
    Make it simple...Make it better!

  26. #26

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    http://quadcities.craigslist.org/ele/4125575339.html

    this 2270 is overpriced for its condition, and is a work in progress, I've heard this model before with some Marantz speakers my cousin had, nice unit if you could find one in better shape. I doubt this one will be selling anytime soon.

  27. #27

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    Actually $175 for a 2270 even in that condition is not bad considering what you'd pay on ebay ($350+)!
    Like mhardy pointed out above, these pieces are overpriced and command top dollar for whatever reasons!

    cnh
    Onkyo TX-SR 805 System #1 HT AVR
    Office Two Channel: LSi-7s (Nakamichi CA-5, NAD 214, Pioneer BDP51fd)
    Vintage Polks: Polk Monitor 5As, Monitor 7Bs [HK 730], Monitor 10As [Marantz 2265], SDA-2Bs [Jolida JD-303, Jolida MV-MK4]
    Headphones: HD600, Q701, ATH-M50s etc. Bravo Audio Ocean amp., Onkyo P-304, Adcom GFA-555, Technics Direct Drive TT

  28. #28

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    That's what I was thinking... although the damage on that particular example looks as though it may have been sustained after being tossed into a dumpster...

    The cosmetics just get some folks' juices a-churnin'... ;-)


    GMMcatalog by mhardy6647, on Flickr

    2600 by mhardy6647, on Flickr
    Last edited by mhardy6647; 10-26-2013 at 02:50 PM.
    all the best,
    mrh

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    What about the Yammy M-80 and C-80?
    Thoughts on this amp/pre combo?
    A local has them for sale in very nice condition.

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    I've still got a Sansui in the closet. I cleared out all the marantz receivers.
    I had both a Marantz integrated and a Sansui 8080 back in the 70's.
    The second go around I had both a Marantz quad and a stereo unit.
    The current sansui made me remember the classic house sound Sansui had.
    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson

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