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  1. #1

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    Cool POLK AUDIO 4SHOT - XBOXONE - Comparison verses other HEADSET

    Greetings, POLK AUDIO COMMUNITY

    If you can not tell by my name, I am a competitive gamer. So, I am interested to connect other competitive gamers, that enjoy having a dynamic headset, to go along with their domination. I know POLK AUDIO knows AUDIO. But, does it know Competitive GAMING Audio. So, I have created this thread as a Sound-Off, for all Competitive Gamers, that want POLK AUDIO, to dominate the new Next-GEN Market. So, Please let Polk Audio know, what we need and nothing less.

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    Anyone can add, techincal and quality stats.

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    Hi GG,
    I'll get with the engineering guys and be happy to ask them tech questions you might have.
    Cheers, Ken

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    Thanks, Ken

    Would these engineers consider coming to the forum to make it convenient? Please let me know. My past Competitive Headset Experiences are: Astros A40s, Turtle Beach (various), Psyko Audio, Tritton, Razer (Tiamat 7.1). I apologize, I just want them to know I had alot of experiences. But, want the competitive gaming community to rely on Polk Audio and vice versa. Question: What will make Polk Audio 4Shots and successors the only choice for Competitive Gaming Headsets and How is the technology demonstrating its adaptibility to mult-types of ears. FYI: I have release scientific papers in ENT (Ear Nose and Throat) or Otolaryngology.
    Last edited by GAMEPHRENIC GOD; 01-16-2014 at 12:58 PM.

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    Hello,
    Here's the response from Dan Anagnos, one of Polk's engineers:

    "Ken,

    Sorry for the delay in responding. To answer your question, I’d like to offer the following. A brief summary of what Polk brings to competitive gaming – in essence what we started with 4Shot and will continue to focus on for future development:


    1. Sound Quality – this is of paramount importance as it gives serious gamers competitive advantages (hearing clearly what others can’t + far less listener fatigue); Polk’s heritage is great sound; we plan on raising the bar significantly versus the status quo; look for new technologies that advance audio resolution and 3-D imaging in the near future (proprietary technology that will work for the full range of variation in ear size and shape)

    2. Comfort – 4Shot and its successors are and will continue to be more comfortable than other gaming headsets – a critical advantage for serious gamers that are engaged for hours; new technologies in future models will reduce weight, improve air circulation (no sweating), improve stability (on the head) and generally improve the fit; we will not allow “style” to trump comfort (as do many competitors) – we always design to encompass the full range of variation in ear size, head size, etc. We’re serious about ergonomic research at Polk – you’ve seen the first of it with 4Shot - much more to follow

    3. Build Quality – durability and build quality are never compromised in Polk products; the fit, finish and reliability of the Polk products is already a cut above the standard in gaming products; we plan on improving this in future models; we use advanced FEA analysis and extensive testing to ensure mechanical integrity, superior wiring and strain reliefs, etc. Our requirements for mechanical design, transducer design and cable design are significantly more demanding than competitors. Bottom line – our products will not break and will perform at the highest level for years, even with the extensive use typical in competitive gaming

    Best,

    Dan
    Recent bumpersticker: "Before you criticize someone walk a mile in his shoes. That way if he gets angry he'll be a mile behind you - and shoeless!"

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    Greetings, Dan

    Thank you so much. The Community will enjoy this information. We appreciate you taking the time out and clarifying the advantages of Polk Audio 4SHOT.
    One more question if you would oblige us:
    Based on the evolution of sound and the dynamics of different game audio being produced for competitive shooters. What is Polk Audio doing to ensure that it does not get into the “One Sound fits all department.” Will there be firmware to adjust to the different competitive shooters and if needed, is Polk Audio willing to have volunteers (competitive gamers) that are willing to sign a NDA to ensure Polk Audio success?
    Last edited by GAMEPHRENIC GOD; 01-22-2014 at 10:17 AM. Reason: spell check

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    Here's a question or two for Dan, if you don't mind passing it on, Ken:

    The Xbox One's audio output, at least from the adapter on the stock headset, seems to be stereo-only (with the stock headset just running L/R to one speaker). With this stereo output to the controller wirelessly, what method is the 4Shot then using for simulating surround? Or does the controller receive the surround audio and then undergo some form of surround-to-stereo processing (Dolby Headphone, HRTF, etc.)?
    Equipment list:
    Onkyo TX-NR3010 9.2 AVR
    Emotiva XPA-3 amp
    Polk RTi70 mains, CSi40 center, RTi38 surrounds, RTi28 rears and heights
    SVS 20-39CS+ subwoofer powered by Crown XLS1500
    Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray player
    DarbeeVision DVP5000 video processor
    Epson 8500UB 1080p projector
    Elite Screens Sable 120" CineWhite screen

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    Quote Originally Posted by kuntasensei View Post
    Here's a question or two for Dan, if you don't mind passing it on, Ken:

    The Xbox One's audio output, at least from the adapter on the stock headset, seems to be stereo-only (with the stock headset just running L/R to one speaker). With this stereo output to the controller wirelessly, what method is the 4Shot then using for simulating surround? Or does the controller receive the surround audio and then undergo some form of surround-to-stereo processing (Dolby Headphone, HRTF, etc.)?
    This is the exact same concern I have with purchasing this product. There has been no mention of Dolby Digital sound associated with this product. Nor surround sound for that matter. As a gamer who plays shooters, surround sound and knowing where things are happening in proximity of me are key. I love everything about this product except for these key components. An answer would be greatly appreciated and will help close a sale of your product.

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    Here's Dan's reply:

    "Hi Ken,

    The audio signal received by the Xbox One controller is two channel only. ANY headset that plugs into the controller will have access to only L and R audio signals. The Xbox One simulates surround (surround to stereo processing) internally before being sending audio to the controller wirelessly. This will change once a multichannel wireless signal is available directly from the console, but Microsoft has not announced when or exactly how that will happen.

    Best,

    Dan"

    Cheers, Ken
    Recent bumpersticker: "Before you criticize someone walk a mile in his shoes. That way if he gets angry he'll be a mile behind you - and shoeless!"

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    OMG, Thanks. I knew Microsoft listened to us. I email them and talk to tech support several times last year, regarding multichannel signaling. Especially since the "other" console had it on their predecessor. Although, I do not believe they had multichannel wireless signal. I had wires from a HDMI splitter to decoder to another amp to get sound out of my Psykos.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth Swauger View Post
    Here's Dan's reply:

    "Hi Ken,

    The audio signal received by the Xbox One controller is two channel only. ANY headset that plugs into the controller will have access to only L and R audio signals. The Xbox One simulates surround (surround to stereo processing) internally before being sending audio to the controller wirelessly. This will change once a multichannel wireless signal is available directly from the console, but Microsoft has not announced when or exactly how that will happen.

    Best,

    Dan"

    Cheers, Ken

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    Ken, thank Dan for the quick response. Interesting that they're doing the surround-to-stereo at the console and sending it to the controller, which is something I don't think anyone has ever said before. Good to know.
    Equipment list:
    Onkyo TX-NR3010 9.2 AVR
    Emotiva XPA-3 amp
    Polk RTi70 mains, CSi40 center, RTi38 surrounds, RTi28 rears and heights
    SVS 20-39CS+ subwoofer powered by Crown XLS1500
    Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray player
    DarbeeVision DVP5000 video processor
    Epson 8500UB 1080p projector
    Elite Screens Sable 120" CineWhite screen

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth Swauger View Post
    Here's Dan's reply:

    "Hi Ken,

    This will change once a multichannel wireless signal is available directly from the console, but Microsoft has not announced when or exactly how that will happen.

    Best,

    Dan"
    I'm sorry to be nit-picky but I want to be sure about my investment. I don't want to have to buy another headset down the road. So seeing that Polk is aware that there could be multichannel wireless compatibility in the future, is this product made to handle the full functionality of that update provide multichannel digital sound?

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    Isn't the Audio Technica AD-700 with a Zalman clip one of the most preferred/affordable gaming sets?

    Seems like this is something that should be directed to Polk's R&D Dept. and not really need a dedicated thread here?

    Professional gaming? Interesting hobby or job? Fame in the gaming community certainly not something that ever crossed my mind but we live in such a society after all.

    cnh
    Last edited by cnh; 01-22-2014 at 07:43 PM.
    Onkyo TX-SR 805 System #1 HT AVR
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    Quote Originally Posted by GAMEPHRENIC GOD View Post
    Anyone can add, techincal and quality stats.
    I hate to say this but none of these questions were really answered by Polk. In fact, Polk went BOSE on us with a few paragraphs of rhetorical flourishes and no numbers?

    Numbers like these, perhaps:

    Brand
    Audio-Technica
    Series
    Audiophile
    Type
    Stereo
    Model
    ATH-AD700

    General SPEC
    Driver Unit
    53mm
    Frequency Response
    5Hz-30KHz
    Input Impedance
    32 ohms
    Sensitivity
    98 dB/mW at 1 kHz
    Connector
    3.5mm/ 6.3mm
    Ear Coupling
    Circumaural
    Cord Length
    9.8 feet
    Weight
    9.8 oz.

    Features
    Features
    Air Dynamic (open) headphones for natural and high quality sounds with deep resonating bass and vocal projection

    Full open-air type headphones produce no sense of pressure on the ears, resulting in a completely natural sensation

    Lightweight honeycomb aluminum casing and magnesium frame structure

    Large-aperture 53 mm drivers with neodymium magnet systems and CCAW voice coils for superior sound reproduction

    Self-adjusting 3D Wing Support Housing provides comfortable support for a more enjoyable listening experience

    High-quality hybrid PCOCC and titanium alloy cord

    Extremely comfortable velvet ear-fitting pads

    Gold-plated stereo 1/8" (3.5 mm) connector with 1/4" (6.3 mm) adapter

    Voice Coil: Copper-clad aluminum wire

    Maximum Input Power: 500 mW

    If it looks like I'm giving you guys a little flack, it's because that MS X-BOX video is too "glib" and too "slick"! Is that what we're on about these days? That's the Marketing Strategy--been there, done that?

    As Roy Pulsipher would say, "Stay Frosty!"

    cnh
    Last edited by cnh; 01-22-2014 at 07:56 PM.
    Onkyo TX-SR 805 System #1 HT AVR
    Office Two Channel: LSi-7s (Nakamichi CA-5, NAD 214, Pioneer BDP51fd)
    Vintage Polks: Polk Monitor 5As, Monitor 7Bs [HK 730], Monitor 10As [Marantz 2265], SDA-2Bs [Jolida JD-303, Jolida MV-MK4]
    Headphones: HD600, Q701, ATH-M50s etc. Bravo Audio Ocean amp., Onkyo P-304, Adcom GFA-555, Technics Direct Drive TT

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnh View Post
    Isn't the Audio Technica AD-700 with a Zalman clip one of the most preferred/affordable gaming sets?

    Seems like this is something that should be directed to Polk's R&D Dept. and not really need a dedicated thread here?

    Professional gaming? Interesting hobby or job? Fame in the gaming community certainly not something that ever crossed my mind but we live in such a society after all.

    cnh
    Mr. Cnh,

    I think your missing the point of this thread. Asking questions about a product that has not been released and that is not included on the product page. Putting this information on forum allows the questions to be referenced by other potential consumers of this product versus calling Polk and having a person who can not contact an engineering team, as Ken has so graciously done, answer our questions.

    To touch base on your "recommendation," I would like to say that you obviously do not own a Xbox One nor have you have no knowledge of the Polk Audio 4Shot product. The Xbox One controller does not have a 2.5mm female port as the the Xbox 360 controller did rendering older headsets obsolete as now they can only provide game sound. Voice communication is not possible due to the missing female port to connect the mic into. There's that, then there's the fact that the 4Shot headset is a wireless headset. This all points to your recommendation of the Audio Technica AD-700 a non-recommendation. The Zalman clip will not plug into the Xbox One controller and the AD-700's are not wireless.

    If this thread does not this not concern you or affect you in any way, I'd like to kindly ask you to leave it alone as someone like me is struggling to decide on what product to buy. While Ken and Dan are being helpful and showing me what kind of customer service Polk provides, you're in here trolling. Basically posting just post. Thank you for your consideration in advance.
    Last edited by AaronG; 01-22-2014 at 09:35 PM.

  16. #16

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    Great Follow up. I am getting more excited about this product daily. Can not wait until my vacation.

    Quote Originally Posted by AaronG View Post
    Mr. Cnh,

    I think your missing the point of this thread. Asking questions about a product that has not been released and that is not included on the product page. Putting this information on forum allows the questions to be referenced by other potential consumers of this product versus calling Polk and having a person who can not contact an engineering team, as Ken has so graciously done, answer our questions.

    To touch base on your "recommendation," I would like to say that you obviously do not own a Xbox One nor have you have no knowledge of the Polk Audio 4Shot product. The Xbox One controller does not have a 2.5mm female port as the the Xbox 360 controller did rendering older headsets obsolete as now they can only provide game sound. Voice communication is not possible due to the missing female port to connect the mic into. There's that, then there's the fact that the 4Shot headset is a wireless headset. This all points to your recommendation of the Audio Technica AD-700 a non-recommendation. The Zalman clip will not plug into the Xbox One controller and the AD-700's are not wireless.

    If this thread does not this not concern you or affect you in any way, I'd like to kindly ask you to leave it alone as someone like me is struggling to decide on what product to buy. While Ken and Dan are being helpful and showing me what kind of customer service Polk provides, you're in here trolling. Basically posting just post. Thank you for your consideration in advance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronG View Post
    Mr. Cnh,

    I think your missing the point of this thread. Asking questions about a product that has not been released and that is not included on the product page. Putting this information on forum allows the questions to be referenced by other potential consumers of this product versus calling Polk and having a person who can not contact an engineering team, as Ken has so graciously done, answer our questions.

    To touch base on your "recommendation," I would like to say that you obviously do not own a Xbox One nor have you have no knowledge of the Polk Audio 4Shot product. The Xbox One controller does not have a 2.5mm female port as the the Xbox 360 controller did rendering older headsets obsolete as now they can only provide game sound. Voice communication is not possible due to the missing female port to connect the mic into. There's that, then there's the fact that the 4Shot headset is a wireless headset. This all points to your recommendation of the Audio Technica AD-700 a non-recommendation. The Zalman clip will not plug into the Xbox One controller and the AD-700's are not wireless.

    If this thread does not this not concern you or affect you in any way, I'd like to kindly ask you to leave it alone as someone like me is struggling to decide on what product to buy. While Ken and Dan are being helpful and showing me what kind of customer service Polk provides, you're in here trolling. Basically posting just post. Thank you for your consideration in advance.
    Have fun, boys! And long live Polk!

    cnh
    Last edited by cnh; 01-23-2014 at 09:07 PM.
    Onkyo TX-SR 805 System #1 HT AVR
    Office Two Channel: LSi-7s (Nakamichi CA-5, NAD 214, Pioneer BDP51fd)
    Vintage Polks: Polk Monitor 5As, Monitor 7Bs [HK 730], Monitor 10As [Marantz 2265], SDA-2Bs [Jolida JD-303, Jolida MV-MK4]
    Headphones: HD600, Q701, ATH-M50s etc. Bravo Audio Ocean amp., Onkyo P-304, Adcom GFA-555, Technics Direct Drive TT

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronG View Post
    I'm sorry to be nit-picky but I want to be sure about my investment. I don't want to have to buy another headset down the road. So seeing that Polk is aware that there could be multichannel wireless compatibility in the future, is this product made to handle the full functionality of that update provide multichannel digital sound?
    Ken,

    I'm sorry to repost this but this is kind of important to me. I'm afraid it got pushed inward due to some other posts but I would really like the question above answered please.

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    Hello,
    Here's the reply:

    "Ken,

    If this is in reference to the 4Shot, I can offer the following. The headset itself will be able to handle multichannel digital sound, but only from a separate source device that receives wireless and provides a mix-down algorithm to two channels (or, the mix-down could occur prior to transmission, as is done now with the Xbox One Controller and PMD). The 4Shot is a passive headphone, so there are no electronics or firmware inside; however, that gives great flexibility because it can connect to anything having a 4-pole analog jack. If you want something that can receive the wireless, multichannel signal directly from the console, without any external receiver device, you’ll have to wait. No such products will exist until Microsoft releases the wireless protocol details.

    Best,

    Dan"

    Cheers, Ken
    Recent bumpersticker: "Before you criticize someone walk a mile in his shoes. That way if he gets angry he'll be a mile behind you - and shoeless!"

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth Swauger View Post
    Hello,
    Here's the reply:

    "Ken,

    If this is in reference to the 4Shot, I can offer the following. The headset itself will be able to handle multichannel digital sound, but only from a separate source device that receives wireless and provides a mix-down algorithm to two channels (or, the mix-down could occur prior to transmission, as is done now with the Xbox One Controller and PMD). The 4Shot is a passive headphone, so there are no electronics or firmware inside; however, that gives great flexibility because it can connect to anything having a 4-pole analog jack. If you want something that can receive the wireless, multichannel signal directly from the console, without any external receiver device, you’ll have to wait. No such products will exist until Microsoft releases the wireless protocol details.

    Best,

    Dan"

    Cheers, Ken
    Thank you for your help Ken. It is much appreciated.

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    Definitely, Ken thank you!

    Quote Originally Posted by AaronG View Post
    Thank you for your help Ken. It is much appreciated.

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    My pleasure, guys! It's great to see such enthusiasm for new product areas.
    Recent bumpersticker: "Before you criticize someone walk a mile in his shoes. That way if he gets angry he'll be a mile behind you - and shoeless!"

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    So, we are looking at March 7th now for the release? I am happy more Q&A is going into the product.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth Swauger View Post
    My pleasure, guys! It's great to see such enthusiasm for new product areas.

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    I have another question that I didnt see asked here... Can I use these headphones to watch movies/TV or are these only for gaming on the xbox? It does not sound convenient having to have the headphones plugged in to the controller just see a blu-ray on the xbox.

    Thanks,
    Jorge

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    Greetings, Blue

    As the engineer explain early, it should be clear that any sound source from your Xboxone, you will be able to sync to these earphones. They can also be used to travel with and use on any mobile device. Correct me if I am wrong! Plus, the ability for Multi-Channel wireless should be coming soon! Keep asking questions. We are all psyched!

    Thanks,


    Quote Originally Posted by bluehorde View Post
    I have another question that I didnt see asked here... Can I use these headphones to watch movies/TV or are these only for gaming on the xbox? It does not sound convenient having to have the headphones plugged in to the controller just see a blu-ray on the xbox.

    Thanks,
    Jorge

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    First time poster here and soon to be first time Polk Audio purchaser. I've got a Polk 4 Shot on pre-order at Amazon.com that I'm going to import into the UK (they'll be available here but we haven't got a date yet). Can't wait to get a decent headset for gaming again. I'm a battlefield player and communication and good positional sound is vital.

    My question for this thread comes from some information Ken put up from Dan earlier (post no. 19) when he said that the 4 Shot is a passive headset only, there are no electronics or firmware inside. I seem to recall from reading about the headset and from watching a video from the Polk stand at the 2014 CES (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZxbdop0ooo) that the headset has 4 different gaming modes (FPS, Racing, Music and Cinema). If there are no electronics and firmware in the headset how do we change these modes? Is there going to be an app on the XB1 dashboard? If that's the case then these modes will only be usable when they're connected to an Xbox One. When they're disconnected and being used with a portable device, say I'm listening to music or watching a film on an iPad then I can't select the music or cinema sound modes?

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    The physical headphones dont have any electronics, it appears thats all in the control module (which gets its data from the Xbox One).

    Per the IGN review from CES(found here) and linked on Polks website (here)

    The 4 Shot will use a control module to connect directly to the Xbox One controller's proprietary data port. The design is virtually the same as the 133t's, but instead of having to plug in an additional processing unit to the console, audio will be transmitted directly from the Xbox One to the controller. The 4 Shot will launch for $159 with the debut of the Xbox One.
    The underlined portion of the quote from IGN seems to also jive with the following quote from Engadget (here) also linked on the 4Shot Polk page

    The 133ts eschew the standard external gaming mic for a little nub that juts out from one ear. To mute it, you just click it back up inside the cup. The headphones also feature a mixer that plugs directly into the controller to help eliminate cords and lets you adjust sound settings on the fly.
    So it appears the control unit (plugged into the controller) will be how you change settings on the fly.

    With that said, I am sure Ken will see this and if I am incorrect, post correct data to address this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
    The physical headphones dont have any electronics, it appears thats all in the control module (which gets its data from the Xbox One).

    Per the IGN review from CES(found here) and linked on Polks website (here)



    The underlined portion of the quote from IGN seems to also jive with the following quote from Engadget (here) also linked on the 4Shot Polk page



    So it appears the control unit (plugged into the controller) will be how you change settings on the fly.

    With that said, I am sure Ken will see this and if I am incorrect, post correct data to address this.
    I think what they're referring to as a 'control module' for the 4 Shot is actually the adaptor that allows the 4 shot to use a standard jack connector to plug into the proprietary port in the XB1 controller. If they made the jack on the end of the 4 shot a proprietary connector so it could connect directly then you wouldn't be able to use the headset as headphones on mobile devices etc. and would limit their appeal.

    This adaptor is supplied to Polk by Microsoft and is why the headset (and all other XBox One headsets) has been delayed. There are 5 buttons on the adaptor, one that selects game audio, one that selects chat audio a mute button and then a volume up or down button (of the audio selected by the previous two buttons). As far as I know there are no Polk electronics in the adaptor that will allow the changing of game modes.

    I may be wrong though and would just like Ken to clarify how things are going to work with this new headset. I'm excited by the new tech this new generation of consoles brings. Previous gen I had a headset that had a chat wire to the controller and then a wire that went to an Astro mixamp which was then in turn connected via optical to the 360 for sound and USB to the 360 for power. There were wires all over the bloody place! I'm quite happy that the headset is passive as that means it won't draw much power from the controller and we'll still get the excellent controller battery life that we currently get (it'll be impacted a bit, but hopefully not by too much). One wire from headset to controller is what I've been waiting for. Some people want a truly wireless solution. For the headset to be wireless to the console directly or wireless to the controller which is then wireless to the console. Personally I'd rather have one wire to the controller as that means the headset doesn't need its own power source. I'd rather have one short local wire than have to worry about keeping batteries in the headset charged as well as those in the controller.

  29. #29
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    Hello,
    A little clarification will help sort things out, I believe. The person in the video, Kelly Anne, was incorrect in saying the 4Shot has four immersion modes. She was confusing the 4Shot with the Melee.
    The 4Shot is a passive device, meaning it contains no active circuitry, it is intended for use with the X-Box One. On the other hand the Melee has active electronics that connect to the X-Box 360.
    Sorry for the confusion.
    Enjoy, Ken
    Recent bumpersticker: "Before you criticize someone walk a mile in his shoes. That way if he gets angry he'll be a mile behind you - and shoeless!"

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    So, with there clarification. Can the engineer discuss why a passive headset is the advantage in this Next-GEN?


    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth Swauger View Post
    Hello,
    A little clarification will help sort things out, I believe. The person in the video, Kelly Anne, was incorrect in saying the 4Shot has four immersion modes. She was confusing the 4Shot with the Melee.
    The 4Shot is a passive device, meaning it contains no active circuitry, it is intended for use with the X-Box One. On the other hand the Melee has active electronics that connect to the X-Box 360.
    Sorry for the confusion.
    Enjoy, Ken

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