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  1. #1

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    Default My setup; upgrade sub or speakers??

    My setup;
    Onkyo 818 receiver
    Monitor 50 fronts
    CS2 center
    Klipsch quintet SL surrounds
    Klipsch sub-10

    This is my first HT setup for my Epson 8350 projector with 120" screen, the room is 14 x25, main seating is 12-14ft from screen. I use it for almost 100% movies. I would like to get opinions on what would make a bigger impact.

    1. Upgrade to monitor 70s for fronts, moving m50s into a rear surround. (From 5.1 to a 7.1)

    Or

    2. Upgrade my sub to a Klipsch sub-12 or PSW505 sub

    Which option would make a bigger impact? Right now I'm only budgeting for 1 of the 2.

    Would doing both over time be a big improvement as well?
    Last edited by Sweets10v8; 02-12-2014 at 07:44 PM.

  2. #2

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    3- Better sub than both of your choices. That's a pretty big room to pressurize. Save up for a better one and thank me later...
    HT/Main- Panny 50" G10 Plasma, Pioneer Elite VSX01 AVR, Panny DMP-BD60 BDP, Polk LS90 mains, CS350LS center, LS/fx side surrounds, LS50 surround backs, SVS 25-31PC+ sub, Harmony One

    Office Rig- Marantz 2252B, Sony CDP-C8ESD CDP, Kenwood KD2070 TT, Polk RTA 12B's

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by ken brydson View Post
    3- Better sub than both of your choices. That's a pretty big room to pressurize. Save up for a better one and thank me later...
    +1 especially if this is primarily a HT setup. Wait as long as you have to. It'll be worth it for sure.
    Display: LG 47" LCD | AVR: Marantz SR5005 | BD: Panasonic BDT-210 | CD/SACD: Oppo 980 |
    Amps: Rotel RB-990bx | Marantz MA-500 | Speakers: Totem Mite : Totem Mite-C : RC60i | Sub: HSU VTF-2 MKIV

    HK AVR635 | Polk R30 | Sony DVD/SACD Player

  4. #4

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    You might also consider some RTiA5's and possibly a CSiA6 to bring those movies more to life. Sub is definitely priority #1. You might consider some small-footprint subs that would integrate better into that narrowish room. There are some out there that are quite small that put out damn fine bass, although they normally don't come cheap.

    I run an Epson 8100 with a 120" screen in a 12x14 room and found that a center wasn't needed in my setup. I actually thought it sounded better without one in the mix. My results definitely are not the norm though, just food for thought if you do end up upgrading front speakers to a different timbre.
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Essence Audio HDACC, Douglas IC's, Douglas Alpha bi-wire SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

  5. #5

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    Also agree with sub upgrade.

    I'd go with either the HSU VTF-3 MK4 or SVS PB 2000.

  6. #6

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    I have the VTF-2 and imagine the VTF-3 would have you grinning ear to ear for a looooong time.
    Display: LG 47" LCD | AVR: Marantz SR5005 | BD: Panasonic BDT-210 | CD/SACD: Oppo 980 |
    Amps: Rotel RB-990bx | Marantz MA-500 | Speakers: Totem Mite : Totem Mite-C : RC60i | Sub: HSU VTF-2 MKIV

    HK AVR635 | Polk R30 | Sony DVD/SACD Player

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by drummer86 View Post
    +1 especially if this is primarily a HT setup. Wait as long as you have to. It'll be worth it for sure.
    So it seems everyone agrees on a sub next. What is the best bang for my buck in the $400 range? Is there a point of diminishing returns in the $500-600 range? Just trying to see how long I should save to buy a sub that will fit my needs.

    Any recommendations? I'm not afraid of a used sub either at this point. (ill look at subs already recommended and whats in others sigs)

    Im an automotive guy, and have many times said "Save for as long as you need, even a full year with no upgrades at all. Just so you can afford "these cylinder heads" and you'll be happy for years to come knowing you have the best parts for your combination." So I get what your saying, just don't have the knowledge base yet to know where I need to be.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweets10v8 View Post
    So it seems everyone agrees on a sub next. What is the best bang for my buck in the $400 range? Is there a point of diminishing returns in the $500-600 range? Just trying to see how long I should save to buy a sub that will fit my needs.

    Any recommendations? I'm not afraid of a used sub either at this point. (ill look at subs already recommended and whats in others sigs)

    Im an automotive guy, and have many times said "Save for as long as you need, even a full year with no upgrades at all. Just so you can afford "these cylinder heads" and you'll be happy for years to come knowing you have the best parts for your combination." So I get what your saying, just don't have the knowledge base yet to know where I need to be.
    IMO, $500-600 is where the good subs start. Law of diminishing returns doesn't apply yet.
    Display: LG 47" LCD | AVR: Marantz SR5005 | BD: Panasonic BDT-210 | CD/SACD: Oppo 980 |
    Amps: Rotel RB-990bx | Marantz MA-500 | Speakers: Totem Mite : Totem Mite-C : RC60i | Sub: HSU VTF-2 MKIV

    HK AVR635 | Polk R30 | Sony DVD/SACD Player

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by ken brydson View Post
    3- Better sub than both of your choices. That's a pretty big room to pressurize. Save up for a better one and thank me later...
    +2

    Quote Originally Posted by drummer86 View Post
    IMO, $500-600 is where the good subs start. Law of diminishing returns doesn't apply yet.
    +1
    Draggn' knee is exhilarating, 150mph wheel standers are pretty cool too


    Home Theater-7.2
    Display-SamsungPN64D8000 | Receiver-Onkyo TX-NR807 | Source-OPPOBDP-103 | Amplifiers-Emotiva; XPA-2 x2, XPA-3 | Speakers: PolkAudio; mains-RTiA9, rears-RTiA9, center-CSiA6, surrounds-FXiA6 | Sub-Epik Empire x 2 | Interconnects-Emotiva


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    First purchase will be; a pair of ? but I'd love a pair of SDA SRS

  10. #10

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    Some nice outlet specials at SVS. PB12NSD on closeout for $599.

    http://www.svsound.com/specials/outlet-specials
    HT/Main- Panny 50" G10 Plasma, Pioneer Elite VSX01 AVR, Panny DMP-BD60 BDP, Polk LS90 mains, CS350LS center, LS/fx side surrounds, LS50 surround backs, SVS 25-31PC+ sub, Harmony One

    Office Rig- Marantz 2252B, Sony CDP-C8ESD CDP, Kenwood KD2070 TT, Polk RTA 12B's

  11. #11

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    Look locally. Subs are much cheaper locally as sellers don't want to ship such a large item!
    2Ch Tube Audio Convert

  12. #12

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    Yep that SVS-PB12 will do the trick, this would as well, and might be a bit more musical with the extra tuning options that the fact that Dr. HSU does not install limiters in his sub amps: http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk4.html

    I have owned older versions of both, and they are both kick a subs! Don't bother with the psw505, it won't yeild much improvement.

    I would also look used as well; I have bought all my good subs used and never had a problem. but I always buy through ebay or audiogon, that way I can use paypal and buy a squaretrade warranty and the purchase is protected.

  13. #13

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    Buying used depends a lot on your location. My local CL is an embarrassment and I don't think I could trust an ebay seller shipping a 70lb sub correctly. The VTF-2 linked above would be my choice (obviously, since I own one). It's incredibly musical but can still rattle the foundation of my house during a movie.
    Display: LG 47" LCD | AVR: Marantz SR5005 | BD: Panasonic BDT-210 | CD/SACD: Oppo 980 |
    Amps: Rotel RB-990bx | Marantz MA-500 | Speakers: Totem Mite : Totem Mite-C : RC60i | Sub: HSU VTF-2 MKIV

    HK AVR635 | Polk R30 | Sony DVD/SACD Player

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweets10v8 View Post
    What is the best bang for my buck in the $400 range? ..........Im an automotive guy...
    So you like to get your hands dirty? Make it a true hobby and put something together. Could go the DIY route.

    Stereo Integrity HT 15" or 18" - $145-$162
    Yung SD500 500 Watt plate amp - $149
    DIY Sound Group Flat Pack - $80-$120 (Or build your own sealed or ported enclosure)
    -------------------
    $374-$431 + cost of S/H & other necessities

    Then... take the project up a level or two with DSP correction

    MiniDSP 2x4 - $105
    UMIK-1 measurement mic - $75
    REW software - free
    ------------------
    $180 + S/H

    So for about $554-$611 + S/H & other necessities one can have pride in DIY and a high price to performance sub system. Going this route myself. Just found a deal on 750 watts of power. A Behringer EP2500 amp with a blown channel for $75! Mono is all I need for now....can fix the channel later if I add a second sub. I'm also thinking about trying out an 818 AVR like you have myself. Been wanting to try XT32 for awhile...


    Links
    http://stereointegrity.com/index.php?id=60
    http://www.parts-express.com/yung-sd...boost--301-512
    http://www.diysoundgroup.com/subwoof...flatpacks.html
    http://www.minidsp.com/
    http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=driver&id=46
    http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=90
    Last edited by WLDock; 02-15-2014 at 08:03 AM.
    FAMILY ROOM
    TV - Mitsubishi WD-73734 73" DLP 1080P | AVR - Onkyo TX-NR3008 | Source - Sony PS3 Slim 320GB | Front - PolkAudio RT3000p | Center -PolkAudio CS400i | Surround - PolkAudio F/X1000 | Sub - DIY Stereo Integrity HT 15 | Sub Amp - Behringer EUROPOWER EP2500

    2 Ch Dreaming...hoping to purchase, build someday???
    OPPO 105 | Cary or Rogue Audio tube Preamp | Parasound HALO A21 amp | DIY Mini Statements towers

  15. #15

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    My CL is sucking for 200 miles even. There's a Klipsch reference rw-12II for $399 now to that interests me as we'll. I've never heard a superior sub, so it makes it hard to know what I really want vs what I need.

    DIY is very up my alley. I'd love to DIY it, I'm very mechanically inclined, and I can piece meal which will keep my wife at bay. I just don't understand enough to be confident yet. Is there a standard connection panel for the back? Let me check out links provided.


    Klipsch reference subs still walmart grade vs adding a few hundred?
    Last edited by Sweets10v8; 02-16-2014 at 06:39 PM.

  16. #16

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    The subs you have probably offer you one note bass with poor control of the driver - sloppy, generic bass. A good sub will hit with precision and you'll know when something hits low and when something hits really low.
    Usher CP-6311, Shuguang S200MK, Shuguang S845MK, Pioneer BDP-51fd, Essence Audio HDACC, Douglas IC's, Douglas Alpha bi-wire SC's, Pangea/Douglas PC's, Epson 8100

  17. #17

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    Just watched Avatar, again I'm new to this, but there were places I didn't feel the affect I thought was intended for the scene. For instance when they destroyed the super huge tree. It hit the ground and it was underwhelming with my klipsch sub 10.

    I don't want crazy uncontrolled bass like people in thier cars have that is annoying!! I just want the movies to come alive as they are intended!!!!!

  18. #18

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    Here's a vote for tactile transducers. Big impact, great upgrade to a system. Yeah, I know, broken record and such.
    TV: 70" LED Sharp Aquos Quattron 3D
    Fronts: Martin Logan Electromotions --- Center: Martin Logan Motion 8
    Front Heights: Polk RC65i --- Rears: Polk RC85i --- Sub: Power Sound Audio XS15
    Onkyo TX-NR818 --- Emotiva XPA-3 --- Oppo BDP-103 -- 2 Channel: Mapletree Line 2A tube preamp modified

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by ROHfan View Post
    Here's a vote for tactile transducers. Big impact, great upgrade to a system. Yeah, I know, broken record and such.
    No idea what those are, more to research.... Shakers under your seat?

  20. #20

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    Don't mean to hijack my own thread but this came up...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sweets10v8 View Post

    I have two Epik Legend subs for sale. These are dual opposed 12" subs, meaning each sub for sale have twin 12" woofers inside.

    The subs are both under 2yrs old and come with original boxes. Lowest I will take is $300ea or $575 for the pair. Two of these are perfect for nearly any sized room and absolutely slam. I am building twin 15's which is the only reason for selling. Contact me for pics.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweets10v8 View Post
    Don't mean to hijack my own thread but this came up...
    Some Epik subs have issues with the amps. Epik has gone under mostly due to the amp issue so there's no warranty or service provider if your subs have issues. Epik was clearing out old inventory and seeing how many people were wronged by Epik (some guys still waiting for warranty claims), I've avoided even picking up their clearance items.

    If you want to pursue the Epik Legend route, ask the owner how old those subs are, how much heat those amps put out, and correlate it to when the bad batches of amps came out.
    2Ch Tube Audio Convert

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweets10v8 View Post
    No idea what those are, more to research.... Shakers under your seat?
    Absolutely. Attached to the underside of the sofa frame. Check out Aura Pro or Butt Kicker. I use Aura Pros and I love it. Real easy to drive, too.
    TV: 70" LED Sharp Aquos Quattron 3D
    Fronts: Martin Logan Electromotions --- Center: Martin Logan Motion 8
    Front Heights: Polk RC65i --- Rears: Polk RC85i --- Sub: Power Sound Audio XS15
    Onkyo TX-NR818 --- Emotiva XPA-3 --- Oppo BDP-103 -- 2 Channel: Mapletree Line 2A tube preamp modified

  23. #23

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    Found an Svs 25-31 for $200. Seems reasonable for the $$$$.

    What's everyone think?
    Last edited by Sweets10v8; 02-17-2014 at 06:11 PM.

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweets10v8 View Post
    Found an Svs 25-31 for $200. Seems reasonable for the $$$$.

    What's everyone think?
    If it's functional RUN DON'T WALK!!!!!
    HT/Main- Panny 50" G10 Plasma, Pioneer Elite VSX01 AVR, Panny DMP-BD60 BDP, Polk LS90 mains, CS350LS center, LS/fx side surrounds, LS50 surround backs, SVS 25-31PC+ sub, Harmony One

    Office Rig- Marantz 2252B, Sony CDP-C8ESD CDP, Kenwood KD2070 TT, Polk RTA 12B's

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by ken brydson View Post
    If it's functional RUN DON'T WALK!!!!!
    Lol, Ken, you crack me up! Nice having you over the other day, great micro brew, thanks again!!
    Draggn' knee is exhilarating, 150mph wheel standers are pretty cool too


    Home Theater-7.2
    Display-SamsungPN64D8000 | Receiver-Onkyo TX-NR807 | Source-OPPOBDP-103 | Amplifiers-Emotiva; XPA-2 x2, XPA-3 | Speakers: PolkAudio; mains-RTiA9, rears-RTiA9, center-CSiA6, surrounds-FXiA6 | Sub-Epik Empire x 2 | Interconnects-Emotiva


    Cans
    Grado RS2i

    2 Ch Rig
    First purchase will be; a pair of ? but I'd love a pair of SDA SRS

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff4rfc View Post
    Lol, Ken, you crack me up! Nice having you over the other day, great micro brew, thanks again!!
    Good times man, thanks for the invite.
    HT/Main- Panny 50" G10 Plasma, Pioneer Elite VSX01 AVR, Panny DMP-BD60 BDP, Polk LS90 mains, CS350LS center, LS/fx side surrounds, LS50 surround backs, SVS 25-31PC+ sub, Harmony One

    Office Rig- Marantz 2252B, Sony CDP-C8ESD CDP, Kenwood KD2070 TT, Polk RTA 12B's

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by ken brydson View Post
    Good times man, thanks for the invite.
    Any time, in fact, I think you may have forgotten to get me that card for you lender. Looks like you'll need to come sample some more CD's to see if those A9's are really imaging as they appear :)
    Draggn' knee is exhilarating, 150mph wheel standers are pretty cool too


    Home Theater-7.2
    Display-SamsungPN64D8000 | Receiver-Onkyo TX-NR807 | Source-OPPOBDP-103 | Amplifiers-Emotiva; XPA-2 x2, XPA-3 | Speakers: PolkAudio; mains-RTiA9, rears-RTiA9, center-CSiA6, surrounds-FXiA6 | Sub-Epik Empire x 2 | Interconnects-Emotiva


    Cans
    Grado RS2i

    2 Ch Rig
    First purchase will be; a pair of ? but I'd love a pair of SDA SRS

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff4rfc View Post
    Any time, in fact, I think you may have forgotten to get me that card for you lender. Looks like you'll need to come sample some more CD's to see if those A9's are really imaging as they appear :)
    Hehe. PM'd his info
    HT/Main- Panny 50" G10 Plasma, Pioneer Elite VSX01 AVR, Panny DMP-BD60 BDP, Polk LS90 mains, CS350LS center, LS/fx side surrounds, LS50 surround backs, SVS 25-31PC+ sub, Harmony One

    Office Rig- Marantz 2252B, Sony CDP-C8ESD CDP, Kenwood KD2070 TT, Polk RTA 12B's

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by ken brydson View Post
    If it's functional RUN DON'T WALK!!!!!
    Yessir that's a great deal. Even if the amp fails you can replace it and still have a great deal...

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    Ok, picking it soon! My wife isn't happy at all!! By the time I sell my klipsch sub 10, I'll have very little into this SVS sub. So since I'm so inexperienced;

    Can you rate rate 1 to 10 these subs just so I'll have a feel for what I'm getting and coming from??

    Klipsch sub 10

    svs 25-31

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