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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    It's in the mail.
    hrm you actually have my address so I'm gonna hold you to that! lol I kid I kid, Yep, I join here in August '13...got enlightened, learn a bunch of stuff, reconfigure my system to the Nth degree and getting it right. Like tonyb said in a post, you guys don't talk out your butts. Newbies, these people actually do know their stuff!
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  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by nbrowser View Post
    Well if that's the case, who here hands out the "audiophile membership" cards? LOL Seriously though, I'm now at a place in my journey to take the next step. Small steps as I can afford to the system but so far, whatever I've done to it has been a good move.
    Now it's time for some SDA's :)
    |Fronts - Peerless RTA-12B | Center(s) - Peerless Monitor 5 | Rears - Peerless Monitor 4 |
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  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfall View Post
    Now it's time for some SDA's :)
    Gotta find em first, seem like unobtanium up here :(
    Living Room Evolved
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  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    It's in the mail.
    Don't listen to him....mine's been in the mail for a decade now ? LOL

    Nbrowser,
    Small steps is a good thing, that way you can appreciate and take note what each step brings to the table. We of coarse jest about the audiophile name tag, it's about trying different stuff and finding what blows your skirt up. If your happy with a 400 buck system, cool, open a cold one and kick back...enjoy the tunes. This audio hobby thing is about sharing experiences, not throwing darts at those with deeper wallets...or those without.

    Don't make me send Cathy up there to strangle a review of those cables out of ya either. She hates Canada to begin with so she won't be so pleasant when you get that knock on the door.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb View Post
    It's about trying different stuff and finding what blows your skirt up. If you're happy with a 400 buck system, cool, open a cold one and kick back...enjoy the tunes. This audio hobby thing is about sharing experiences, not throwing darts at those with deeper wallets...or those without.
    Sig material there.
    |Fronts - Peerless RTA-12B | Center(s) - Peerless Monitor 5 | Rears - Peerless Monitor 4 |
    |AVR - Yamaha Aventage RX-A1020 |
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  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb View Post
    Don't make me send Cathy up there to strangle a review of those cables out of ya either. She hates Canada to begin with so she won't be so pleasant when you get that knock on the door.
    I won't know what they do to my set up for 2 channel until they arrive from the seller, I am however anxious to get them as this is the first serious foray into cables. We shall see how they do when they get hit with the nice lush power I can send down them into some nifty towers. :)
    Living Room Evolved
    Onkyo TX-NR717
    Parasound HCA-1200II
    Polk Audio RTi A7 Black Front
    Polk Audio RTi A3 Black Rear
    Polk Audio CSiA6 Center
    Transparent Audio Music Wave Biwire cables > Mains
    Canare 4S11 >Center
    Audioquest Evergreens on most of the analog connections
    Tannoy TS2.12 Sub
    Marantz CD6004
    Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Piano Black TT
    Parasound Zphono Phono Preamp
    Apple Mac Mini
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  7. #37

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    I've been in and out . . . mostly out for a while . . . it's amusing how some things never change :-)
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  8. #38

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    Sorry guys but I'm going to have to differ on the Canare. It's a decent cable but I'd spend a little more and go with Doug's cables. well worth the extra investment. Then you decide if jumping way up the cable chain is worth it.
    2CH - Magnepan MGIIIA's, Rogue Audio Magnum 66 pre, Parasound HCA1200 MKII, Douglas Connection IC's and Cables, Oppo BDP-83SE

    Main HT - Adcom GFA7400, Rti70, Csi40, Rti28, Onkyo TX-SR705, Sony BDP-S1000ES, Signal Cable Analog 2 IC's, Mitsubishi 65" DLP, M&K 1250 THX Sub, Knu Koncepts cables

    Mini HT - Samsung 46" 3D TV + 3D Blu ray player, HK AVR 254, Rti8's, Athena 12" sub

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by inspiredsports View Post
    I've been in and out . . . mostly out for a while . . . it's amusing how some things never change :-)
    Hey Greg, yeah long time no read.

    Nope, they never change.
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:

    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by daboyz View Post
    Sorry guys but I'm going to have to differ on the Canare. It's a decent cable but I'd spend a little more and go with Doug's cables. well worth the extra investment. Then you decide if jumping way up the cable chain is worth it.
    Eh...it's not so much that you have a difference of opinion, it's simply that different price structures offer different gains in SQ. Pretty much everything in audio is set up that way, and other products outside audio too. That is, until you hit that point of diminishing returns, which differs with each of us.

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb View Post
    You know this for a fact do you ?
    Got any electrical models to differentiate one design from another?

  12. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by czarodzi View Post
    Got any electrical models to differentiate one design from another?
    Got any electrical models that will differentiate soundstage width-height ? Any that measure air around notes, placement of instruments on a stage ?

    Your trying to equate science with subjectivity.....hasn't work out so well with science and religion either.
    Last edited by tonyb; 05-05-2014 at 02:25 PM.

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by villian View Post
    You'd be surprised at the difference between "Cheap" and "Expensive" speaker wiring ;) Try a coat hanger yet?
    I agree.

    I was very surprised at the difference in sound and measurable noise and distortion between "cheap" Monster XP speaker wire and "expensive" Monster Cable Z2 Reference and AudioQuest Volcano speaker cables.

    In the report below, I heard and measured a difference between the cheap XP wire and both of the more expensive speaker cables. However, I did not hear a difference between the two expensive speaker cables. It was not until I upgraded my electronics that I heard a difference between Monster Z2 Reference and better quality (and more expensive) speaker cable in that application.

    Measurements below are from this thread:

    The-AI-1-Dreadnought-Project-Pt.1


    Quote Originally Posted by DarqueKnight View Post
    Quantitative Results


    Figure 15. 1000 Hz tone measured at speaker's SDA inputs with the
    Dreadnought using Z2 cables.


    In figure 14 the RMS magnitude of the SDA signal using the strap is 445 mV and the average RMS magnitude of the noise is 0.57 mv. In figure 15 the RMS magnitude of the SDA signal using the Dreadnought is 417 mV and the average RMS magnitude of the noise is 0.4 mv. At 1000 Hz, the noise magnitude in the SDA signal was much lower with the Dreadnought. The noise density was about the same as with the strap.

    As expected, the signal to noise ratio was significantly better when the monoblock amps were isolated from each other.


    Figure 16. Just for grins, the Dreadnought's Monster Z2 Reference cables were replaced with Audioquest Volcano and then Monster XP.


    Figure 17. 1000 Hz tone measured at speaker's SDA inputs with
    Audioquest Volcano speaker cables on the Dreadnought.



    Figure 18. 1000 Hz tone measured at speaker's SDA inputs with
    Monster XP speaker cables on the Dreadnought.


    It is easier to see the differences in the 1000 Hz FFT plots (figs. 14, 15, 17, 18) if you save them and then click through them. While it is easy to see the decrease in noise as you go from the strap to the Dreadnought/Z2 to the Dreadnought/Volcanoes, the Dreadnought/Z2 and Dreadnought/XP plots (figures 15 and 18) appear very similar at first glance. However, the signal's DC component was 6 dB higher with the XP cables. The XP cables also had significantly more noise in the 2 kHz - 6 kHz region.


    Figure 19. 61 Hz tone measured at speaker's SDA inputs with Monster
    Z2 Reference speaker cables on the Dreadnought.



    Figure 20. 61 Hz tone measured at speaker's SDA inputs with Monster
    Z2 Reference speaker cables in the strapped configuration.



    Figure 21. 60 Hz tone measured at speaker's SDA inputs with Audioquest
    Volcano speaker cables on the Dreadnought.



    Figure 22. 60 Hz tone measured at speaker's SDA inputs with Monster
    XP speaker cables on the Dreadnought. Nasty. Sounded nasty too.


    I learned a while ago that the quality and gauge of the wire carrying the SDA signal makes a big difference in the overall sound quality of the speaker and not just in the imaging and sound staging. I replaced the Dreadnought's Monster Z2 Reference cables ($3.78/foot) with Audioquest Volcano speaker cables ($206.25/foot) and then with Monster XP speaker cables ($1.00/foot). The XP was unpleasant to listen to. It was as if a bed sheet had been draped over the speakers. The bass was muddied a bit and the sound stage shrank by about three feet all around. The sound volume was also apparently lower. In addition to being a lower grade of copper, the 16 gauge conductors in the XP had 5.3X the resistance of the effective 9 gauge conductors of the Volcano and Z2 Reference cables.

    I did not hear a difference between the Z2 Reference and Volcano cables, even though the Volcanoes had a lower average noise spectrum density and magnitude. This seems to indicate that either there is an upper bound on improvement in sound quality with improvement in SDA cable quality or my equipment could not convey the difference or that my ears could not discern the difference.

    While I did not hear a difference or improvement with the use of a pair of $3300 cables on the Dreadnought, I did hear a moderate improvement when the Dreadnought was placed in its $200 aluminium enclosure. This was a pleasant surprise.
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
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  14. #44

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    I was holding your science and charts in my back pocket pal, you let the cat out of the bag. LOL

  15. #45

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    villian was peeking, yet not a word. Anyone surprised?
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  16. #46

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    That's been the case in a couple threads Jesse.
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:

    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee

  17. #47

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    The bigger the better! Its all about retaining the amps damping factor.
    8/4 SOJ with a high strand count using your favorite connectors

  18. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyb View Post
    Well look at you....getting all audiophile on us now. LOL

    Congrats man, looking forward to your observations.
    The cables have arrived, installed, small listening session done...weekend holds more listening sessions, initial impressions say...good investment.
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    Tannoy TS2.12 Sub
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  19. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by F1nut View Post
    villian was peeking, yet not a word. Anyone surprised?
    Too busy to write a reply that none of you will accept and only debate further. I have no desire to waste my time trying to prove that 2+2=4. It's something that shouldn't even need to be proven. Go have fun with your Audioquest power cables and junk. Seriously. I'll stick with my coat hanger. Can't be beaten on a price/performance basis.
    Too many good quotes to list..waiting for some fresh ammo. :)

  20. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by villian View Post
    Too busy to write a reply that none of you will accept and only debate further. I have no desire to waste my time trying to prove that 2+2=4. It's something that shouldn't even need to be proven. Go have fun with your Audioquest power cables and junk. Seriously. I'll stick with my coat hanger. Can't be beaten on a price/performance basis.
    Then why do you keep coming back? Oh...wait...I know...

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
    I may have an addiction... RTA-15TL, SDA 2, LSi25, LSi15, LSi9, LSi7, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LS/FX, RT/FX, DSW MP2000...and that's just the Polks...

  21. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by villian View Post
    Too busy to write a reply that none of you will accept and only debate further. I have no desire to waste my time trying to prove that 2+2=4. It's something that shouldn't even need to be proven. Go have fun with your Audioquest power cables and junk. Seriously. I'll stick with my coat hanger. Can't be beaten on a price/performance basis.
    Could it also be that 1+1+1+1=4? Maybe it's more complex and takes more training than you realise?
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:

    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee

  22. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZLTFUL View Post
    Then why do you keep coming back? Oh...wait...I know...

    For the LULZ from ignorant comments like that. Keep em' coming. Better yet, go debate digital cables (Audioquest USB's, etc) some more while ignoring the root problem of all that madness.
    Too many good quotes to list..waiting for some fresh ammo. :)

  23. #53

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    The root problem...yeah, you. Thankfully, I have a solution as life is too short to be wasting time reading your nonsense. Welcome to my BOZO list.
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  24. #54

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    Those who can, do. Those who can't, troll. Village Idiot can't put his money where his mouth is so he tries to throw insults to try and deflect from his own inadequacies. Sad...pathetic really.
    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
    I may have an addiction... RTA-15TL, SDA 2, LSi25, LSi15, LSi9, LSi7, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LS/FX, RT/FX, DSW MP2000...and that's just the Polks...

  25. #55

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    Hey I used to think speaker wire was speaker wire...not anymore, especially after tonight's experiment, 5 years ago I woulda been that "troll" but unlike some I tried to keep an open mind. Sad really that some can't accept the facts.
    Living Room Evolved
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    Parasound HCA-1200II
    Polk Audio RTi A7 Black Front
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    Polk Audio CSiA6 Center
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    Canare 4S11 >Center
    Audioquest Evergreens on most of the analog connections
    Tannoy TS2.12 Sub
    Marantz CD6004
    Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Piano Black TT
    Parasound Zphono Phono Preamp
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  26. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZLTFUL View Post
    Those who can, do. Those who can't, troll. Village Idiot can't put his money where his mouth is so he tries to throw insults to try and deflect from his own inadequacies. Sad...pathetic really.
    Right, because you really know what all my listening rig consists of (More like you've never asked, and only insinuated that I have some prehistoric gradeschool like setup). It's not like I'm running Monster Z Series as well. I've fooled around with some other wire, but much like DQ have come to the conclusion that the Z's sound quite good and just as good as many other, higher priced cables.
    Too many good quotes to list..waiting for some fresh ammo. :)

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    Nice try. You put words in my mouth...but that never works. Just makes you look like a bigger fool when people read back through the thread and see that I never said or insinuated anything of the sort. Just your own delusional projections taking shape again.
    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
    I may have an addiction... RTA-15TL, SDA 2, LSi25, LSi15, LSi9, LSi7, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LS/FX, RT/FX, DSW MP2000...and that's just the Polks...

  28. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZLTFUL View Post
    Nice try. You put words in my mouth...but that never works. Just makes you look like a bigger fool when people read back through the thread and see that I never said or insinuated anything of the sort. Just your own delusional projections taking shape again.
    Put on "ignore". Nuff said, don't waste the bandwidth...
    HT/Main- Panny 50" G10 Plasma, Pioneer Elite VSX01 AVR, Panny DMP-BD60 BDP, Polk LS90 mains, CS350LS center, LS/fx side surrounds, LS50 surround backs, SVS 25-31PC+ sub, Harmony One

    Office Rig- Marantz 2252B, Sony CDP-C8ESD CDP, Kenwood KD2070 TT, Polk RTA 12B's

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    Quote Originally Posted by ken brydson View Post
    Put on "ignore". Nuff said, don't waste the bandwidth...
    But that takes all the fun out of online forums.

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    BlueFox, ZLTFUL has "liked" your post.

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
    I may have an addiction... RTA-15TL, SDA 2, LSi25, LSi15, LSi9, LSi7, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LS/FX, RT/FX, DSW MP2000...and that's just the Polks...

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