DLP Anybody?

[amulford]

Has anyone gotten a DLP RP TV?

My TV is taking the plunge and I have been shopping for a new one.

I am leaning towards one using DLP. Does anyone have any stories they'd like to share?

Pros - cons - opinions - DEALS???

It looks like a sizable investment, so any and all comments would be welcome.

[VR3]

My Dad has a 62" RCA Sentium(sp) RP DLP TV. That thing is AWESOME. He has also has a 32" Samsung DLP, that thing is awesome as well.

I recomend Samsung.....

[KeithV]

DLP is a pretty cool technology. It gives you an amazing contrast ratio and great picture detail without the cost of plasma. However, there are quite a few peoplpe that cannot watch one of these TVs without having adverse effects, such as nausia, dizzyness, eye pain, and general uncomfortableness. I am an example of this, which sucks because I sell these things for a living. I cannot watch a DLP TV for more than a few minutes, and looking at the blue "unuseable signal" screen makes my eyes almost bleed.

So, in short, watch them in different stores for a long time before you buy.. I would recommend looking into LCD rear projection instead.. Such as the Sony Grand Wega series (KF42WE610, KF50WE610, or KF60WE610) however they are about a 10-12 week wait. The other option is Hitachi, panasonic, or mitsu.. I would avoid the panasonic ones like the plague, check out the Hitachi 50V500 however, it's awesome.

[howie777]

I also have problems with DLPs but I have only looked at one samsung DLP. I did hear that this is due to having only 1 part (I have no idea which part) instead of 3 of the parts. Color wheel is what keeps popping up in my head but I don't know if that is the part or not.

I wanted a DLP too, but doesn't look like it will happen for me. I also need very high refresh rates on computer monitors. If it isn't 85+ Hz I can see the screen refresh and it is painful to watch just like DLPs.

Howie

[Frank Z]

Howie,
Your thinking of the Color Wheel. I've read a number of posts at HTF and AVS that describe this exact problem. A lower speed color wheel causes some people to see the dreaded rainbow effect, I've heard of a few people actually losing their lunch from watching it. Worst case obviously, but it does happen.

[fireshoes]

The Samsung DLP's are very nice. The RCA's are cheaper but you get a grainy picture (vs the Samsung anyway). I also like Hitachi's RP LCD's. I have a standard RPTV Hitachi, which I like a lot.

DLP positives:
thinnger than standard RPTV
lightweight
bright picture
wider viewing angles than standard RPTV
replacing the bulb basically gives Day 1 picture quality again
no burn-in
no convergance

DLP negatives:
the rainbow effect some see
bulb replacement cost (a few hundred dollars every 8000 hours on 56" or less)
black levels are not real good
cost
some blockiness on fast motion sequences

LCD positives:
bright picture
wider viewing angle than standard RPTV
thinner than standard RPTV
no burn-in
replacable bulb
cheaper than DLP
no convergance

LCD negatives:
screen door effect
dead/fixed pixels
lower contrast ratio
poor black levels
bulb cost
blockiness on fast motion

RPTV positves:
lower price
no rainbows or screen doors
very good picture quality
no pixels to go dead
no lamp costs down the road

RPTV negatives:
size and weight
burn-in possiblity with static images and your contrast is set too high like most do
narrower viewing angle
harder to see with lots of sunlight in the room
when your picture fades over time, you can't just pop a new bulb in
convergance

Hope this helps!

[sachinsood]

Fireshoes, thanks for mentioning the positives and the negatives for most of the newer TV technologies there.

I had been shopping for the "right" TV myself too and I was on the verge of getting the Sony 50" RP LCD TV from CC in December (mainly because it was within my budget at the time and cheaper than the Samsung 50" DLP TV). I had posted a few questions here on televisions earlier and the replies for those were very helpful.

However, I ended up with some financial troubles and have had to put the TV purchase on the backburner for a while. It's March and I still have not bought one. And in a way, I feel the delay has been a blessing in disguise. I have had a chance to read more about the drawbacks of the new technologies that people have begun noticing (esp. DLP).

Hence, I have been looking at CRT TVs again and every time I look at the cost and the negatives, that also include the maintenance costs of the newer TVs out today, I keep getting the feeling that nothing truly beats the old CRT technology.

True, those TVs are bulky, and are not made in large screen sizes, but the PQ is excellent, maintenance costs are next to nothing, and they can last up to 15-20 years without any major expense like changing $400-500 bulbs or being faced with the fact that after a few years either the pixels will drop or the PQ will fade or there will be a permanent burn-in, etc. And CRTs are still a lot cheaper than anything else out there.

So, hopefully, after my tax return this year and some additional money, I can think of getting a good TV and the more I wait, the more I lean toward a CRT. It's a time-tested technology. I am thinking of getting a Toshiba or a Sony 32-36" CRT TV (any other recommendations would be great).

And then, there is news about Intel making a chip that will cost a fraction of the DLP TV chip and yet produce better PQ than DLP. It is projected to cost around $150-200 and will not have any moving parts like the DLP chip has. However, the TVs with this Intel chip may not be as sleek as a DLP TV.

And lastly, the question about going widescreen or not. Widescreen, to my best knowledge, is great for watching DVDs. But what if you have normal cable, digital cable or satellite cable. These channels (to my knowledge) are not widescreen format, and hence, where the extra money was spent on getting rid of top and bottom black bars while watching DVDs, we now have right and left black bars while watching regular channels (which are normally watched more often than a DVD movie). Surely one can "stretch" the picture horizontally to fill the widescreen, but that produces distortion. I am not sure if HDTV channels are widescreen or not. Moreover, I read a lot of reviews about DLP not looking great when used with digital or satellite cable. You'd need to get HDTV reception to really see your money's worth on the big screen.

Any additional comments in this regard would be great. It would be great if there was one thread that just honestly would say - these are the pros and cons of TV type 1, type 2, etc. If such a site exists, do list that - I have seen some, but none really mention all the factors.

Adding on to Fireshoes list of reviews, this one is on CRT TVs:
Positives
- Excellent PQ
- Decent contrast ratio
- Low maintenance costs: no lamp costs
- Long lasting
- Wide viewing angles
- No burn-in, no convergence
- Fixed/dropped pixels not possible
- No blockiness on fast motion sequences
- Time-tested technology
- Cheap

Negatives
- Bulky
- Blacks not as good as DLP, but the more expensive ones are as good perhaps.
- Large screens not available (40" max)

[criverajr]

Sachinsood,

I have been looking at almost the same models as you and I kind of feel the same way. In my opinion I really like the Sony 40"XBR800 set. I have seen one ISF calibrated at a Hi-End Electronics store in Jersey along with a Lowes TV and they are almost picture perfect. I would do some homework on this set and go take a look at it. Get your look on!.

CRj:D

[dcorrea]

Well heres my take on DLP...

I purchased an RCA 50in dlp a couple of months back and overall I am very impressed. I also got the tv at a monster deal so I couldnt pass it up. The picture quality is fantastic although like a previous post said there is some video noise in the picture. I spent a lot of time comparing the many dlp models and the video noise was present in just about every tv I looked at.
I did find that at many retail stores the advanced video option of edge enhancement was on, and this will make the picture rather grainy.
I have never seen the rainbow effect either.

[dcorrea]

Oh one more thing. About the previous post concerning the positives of CRT TV's.

- No blockiness on fast motion sequences

I am not sure of direct view CRT but I can ASSURE you that blockiness is very present on CRT RPTV's with certain HD channels. This has nothing to do with the TV itself but with the compression ratio of the HD network. The same channels that produce this effect on DLP and LCD give the same effect to RPTV's.

[F1nut]

The more I read and hear about TV's, the more CRT's seem to be the best all around deal.

[Toxis]

Tube CRT > all. Nothing you can say to prove me different. :D I have a Sony 34" tube and LOVE it. MUCH better than any DLP/LCD/Plasma I've ever seen.

[sowen010599]

I got a JVC CRT RPTV a little over a year ago. It has the 9" guns rather than the standard 4"s or 7"s. I actually special ordered it because it wasn't at BB or anything, they don't carry the "high-end" models, and it was JVC's top of the line. I don't actually think they made them with the big guns this year. Cost maybe? It was about $4,500. It has the best picture I have ever seen PERIOD. I didn't know you could have dynamics with an image, truly amazing. I had it professionally calibrated "in-home" so, I know it's right. Get this though, if you watch a movie, and you see the sun, a flash-light, something bright, the damn thing makes you squint it's so bright. And the blacks, they are dead black, the best I've seen. I have yet to see anything in a chain store compare with it. The only other I have seen come close to it was the Marantz 64". It is heavy though, 260lbs.

[dcorrea]

Tube CRT > all. Nothing you can say to prove me different

Aint that the truth. I would have gone with a tube set if I had the space for it. The wife ultimately drove the decision. I wanted a new TV and she wanted space savings. Well DLP may not be perfect like CRT but Im happy with it and I enjoy it everyday.

[amulford]

I'm still happy with it...:D

[goingganzo]

i have a benq 8700+ fp and a samsung 42 rear projector both are awsome i have also had a 65 rp crt with is awsome too but if you want to go big get a fp but wait for the new d5 lcd pannel

[PolkThug]

Good ole fashioned tubes have the best PQ, however I prefer big CRT TV's that can do 1080i natively.

Regards,
PolkThug

[madmax]

I must say I used to be in the CRT mentality but recently two mediums have caught my attention. Flat panel LCD's are flat out #1 in picture quality for a still or slow moving HD picture. Compared to LCD, plasma is not as good with a still picture but better with moving pictures. Both are far superior to CRT's in my opinion. Just look at the lifelike pic on either plasma or LCD and then compare to a CRT. Oh, and the real looser on the CRT is the weight. I will give the CRT the "best bang for the buck" in picture quality. That being said, and given the recent EDTV $2K plasma units, the best bang award is changing quickly. :)

madmax


No more 200+ pound behemiths (sp) for me. :D

[Toxis]

but why would you honestly buy an ED set? I know the pro's and con's but personally, the way HD channels has been coming to market, why NOT buy HD? Unless you're trying to have a status symbol by saying "Yeah, so I bought a Plasma this weekend..." Sorry for just under 2k, you can buy the best 34" tube HDTV integrated and get free local HD right out the box.... and have a FAR superior picture than over 3/4 of the HD Plasma's.

[NuckingFuts]

Excuse my ignorance but what is DLP stand for?

What does CRT stand for?

[sowen010599]

Digital Light Processing

Cathode Ray Tube

[madmax]

Originally posted by Toxis
but why would you honestly buy an ED set?

It depends on what you want and your seating. If you will be about 14' away and the 40" size is ok with you then an EDTV will perform as nicely as a 40" HD. Closer? The the EDTV looks a little pixelized. Further away for me a 50" or more would be more suitable.

Now, for what you probably meant which I assume is why buy a 40" EDTV when you could have a 40" HD CRT? Looking at the stores I notice the plasmas are more dynamic with color and brightness. Other than that I guess the weight is about the only other reason.

I actually had two other factors in my room. The room is about 22' by 12' with my head about 10 or 11 feet from the oposing wall where I wanted the monitor. With a CRT My head would be about 7 feet from the pic but with a flat panel I am about 10' away from the pic. Only 3 feet but wow what a difference. The other factor was that I wanted the monitor between my HS speakers but didn't want a big box between them. (For sound quality). Right now I still have a stand there but it is below the woofer/tweeter level so it doesn't affect the sound much. Down the road I will get rid of the stand and mount the panel on the wall.

madmax


Edit: Oh yea, and over the past several months the EDTV prices have dropped from about $2700 to maybe $1700. On the LCD's I've been watching the prices drop around $100 per week. I don't think it will be more than a year or so until you can get an EDTV for under $1K.

[PolkThug]

Calibration is the key on any of these displays. Tweaking video (on a good TV) can be more intensive than tweaking audio. The hidden ISF menu on Hitachis have about 100+ settings to calibrate.

When comparing TV's look at these two very important things.

1. Do the whites look white, and not slightly red or slightly blue?
2. Shadow detail. With two TV's side-by-side, look at a dark area in the picture and see which one has the most detail.

As always, turn of any black or edge enhancement!

Regards,
PolkThug

[Sami]

Originally posted by sachinsood
Negatives
- Blacks not as good as DLP, but the more expensive ones are as good perhaps.

Have I missed something here? How can the blacks not be as good, CRT doesn't emit light through a wheel, if it is black then it is black. From what I have heard from DLP's is that they are better in producing black than LCD's but at the expense of grayscales.

CRT Front Projection, that's the way to go. :)

[sowen010599]

The problem with blacks is inherent with all LCD based designs. Be it a LCD panel, single chip DLP, or a 3 chip. The problem is, even with the pixel is black, some light still bleeds through. So instead of black, you get a dark grey. The problem is more pronounced with single chip DLP's, and even more so with 3 chip DLP's because the light shining through the chip is so much brighter than with a panel.

With a single chip DLP, white light is shown through a chip that is more/less a filter. The chip creates the image in black and white, or more exactly, black (and various levels there of) and clear. That light then passes through a colored filter on a spinning wheel. The chip creates the image for that color, then as the next color advances, the image for the next color is created on the chip. Basically, you get snap shots of different colors that stack up so fast, you see it as a complete image. That stacking can cause a rainbow affect that bothers some, myself included. The thing about blacks that you have to understand is, even when the pixel is fully black, "some" light can still pass through it resulting in a grey rather than full black. The problem with grey scale is that grey is a combination of all colors, and a flaw inherent to the overall design of single chip DLP.

With 3 chip DLP's, that same light passes through a prism and then the 3 colors (red blue green) pass through 3 chips. The image is created all at once rather than a stack of multiple colors. That eliminates the rainbow affect because the picture happens "all at once" just as with CRT's. However, because at least some light bleeds through a "full black" on each chip, blacks are literally 3 times worse than with a single chip. But, because you have 3 times as many chips, all working on different colors and shades, grey scale is much better (again, because it is a combination of all colors).

With CRT's, the image is literally drawn line-by-line. With a "full black", all 3 electron beams are basically off for that moment. It doesn't get any blacker than that.

[TheGrayGhost]

This link is to a demo and shows how DLP actually works for single and three chip DMD systems.

The newer DMD chips from TI combined with better color wheels have made excellent improvements in black level and the color of gray.

http://www.dlp.com/?DCMP=TIHomeTrack...me_dlp#Scene_1

[fireshoes]

Better get your CRT big screen while you can. Panasonic and Toshiba are closing their CRT manufacturing facility in NY, and Panasonic has officially announced they are not producing any more big screen CRT's. I'm sure other manufacturers will be joining them.

[F1nut]

F Panasonic and Toshiba!

I don't like being forced to buy a inferior product because a manufacturer decides they don't want to make the better product any longer.

[NuckingFuts]

Would my 60" projection HDTV be considered a CRT TV?

Im impressed with the quality Im getting whether its HD channels or not.:D
I just wish they would use all that room under the screen for lots and lots of extra speakers

Oh well, that's why God made Polk!:p

[Toxis]

That's fine, Panasonic CRT's look like total ass (almost identical to Daewoo's) and Toshiba's couldn't look any more exaggerated if they tried. Mitsubishi makes the only CRT RPTV that I like these days. They look realistic, how **** looks in person. Hitachi makes a great set but the colors are to bright IMO.