component video cables

[danger boy]

ok. i don't want to start a "which is the better cable" here. but right now i'm using Monster video 3 component cable running dirctly from my Toshiba DVD player to the back of my HDTV. i'm not very impressed with the quality actually. I thought it would look better.

so i'd like to find another component cable that may squeeze a little more PQ out of the DVD player and the TV.

anyone have improved PQ when they switched cables?

Are Franks (signal cable's) component cables better PQ than the MC video 3's?

i'm open to any suggestions.. but please no $500 cables.. or something like that. ... under $125 would be best for a 2m component cable.

thanks, al

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

I won't be much help...

I have the Monster 3s and love them...never tried the signal cable though...

Do you notice a difference in quality between say the monster 1 and 3? If no, then cables may not be your issue, may be something else...just a thought...

[LuSh]

Without coming off as a jerk...ummm how about a new DVD player?

It would be like me asking for a faster car, then somebody recommending me better tires.

[Grimster74]

Pretty sure this will not help in your situation Danger but I'm currently running ALL monster video 3 cables and next month all mine will be going up for sale. The end of next month I'm replacing all my monster cables with Signal Cables. Reasoning, all the rave reviews I've read about signal cables just seems like a time to do the next upgrade without buying new equipment. Just to give you an idea, 1 six foot component cable from Frank will cost you $76.

[Ron-P]

I also used to run the Monster 3's with my RPTV and I was very happy with them. Now, I run AR Pro II's because of the long run of 25'. Again, I am very happy with these and noticed no loss in PQ going with the different brand and longer run.

The BIG question, have you calibrated with AVIA or VE? You can also buy a new DVD player and test it vr your current.

Your cables only transfer the single, they won't improve it enough for you to notice a 'huge' improvement, where as calibrating your TV can.

Monster does make good stuff, it's just a bit pricey.

[therockman]

Right now I am running all Monster cables including the aforementioned Monster 3's component video cable, I love the detail and the contrast that they deliver in my system. Of course I am only transfering 108 mhz of progressive scan video information, but the transfer rate is near perfect with picture resolution rangeing from crystal clear to merely pristine, depneding on the source DVD. If you are transfering 182 mhz or the dreaded 224 mhz of video information, then your results might very.


Rocky

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

Originally posted by LuSh
Without coming off as a jerk...ummm how about a new DVD player?

It would be like me asking for a faster car, then somebody recommending me better tires.

What does that mean? I don't get it...

[dorokusai]

I used to be 100% MC, but now am running 100% SC. I found better performance in my application with the Signal brand, across the board.

I previously used MC Video 3. Frank does have a 30-day, money back guarantee, so you can't lose by testing them in your home....same warranty with Blue Jeans Cable.

[LuSh]

It means cables will do very little with the current DVD player he is using. You could spend $3000 on Comp Cables and still not notice a difference. If he's not happy with the picture, consider the source. I'm willing to bet that the cables he used was worth half his DVD player. The sad reality is, the cables are probably fine but the DVD player is of poorer quality. An upgrade to his DVD player, like a used Denon or Panasonic with the Farouja chipsets will be a big step in the right direction.

Is it as cheap? No...but then upgrades never are. The other route is too simply THROW away money on better cables. Cables make a difference but not as much as the source.


PS. (this is not directed to anybody in particular but...) Please don't tell me how your cables made a DRASTIC difference, or try and compare $1.99 cables to Monster video cables. I'm talkin in generic terms here and even though I use Cardas cables and have be thinking about upgrading to Audience Conductor speaker wire I still realize that the sound (or in this case the video perform he will get) will be the end result of his overall hardware and not the 60% marketup interconnects that big Box stores are so happy to show you. I will get better video performace out of a DVD player like the Denon 2900 or a model down like the 900 series using $30 comp video cables then you will using a Toshiba DVD player with $300 Comp video cables end of story.

[Airplay355]

kind of sad that people have to add disclaimers to their posts to avoid getting into a pointless arguement with someone who feels differently.

[brettw22]

Originally posted by LuSh
Without coming off as a jerk...ummm how about a new DVD player?

Toshiba has some excellent players on the market, and to throw a blanket statement out where you have zero idea what model player he's using is a bit over the top.

Sources are important, but don't go slamming anyone for the gear they're running like that. Just kinda rubbed me wrong the way you put that.........

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

Originally posted by brettw22
Toshiba has some excellent players on the market, and to throw a blanket statement out where you have zero idea what model player he's using is a bit over the top.

Sources are important, but don't go slamming anyone for the gear they're running like that. Just kinda rubbed me wrong the way you put that.........

Same here...that's why I wanted to clarify...

[danger boy]

i've actually been throwing the idea around of a new DVD player. but. i thought i'd check first to see if anyone noticed any difference with upgrading their cables first. i'm just a little disappointed with a prograssive scan player going to a HDTV. and the first thing that came to mind was cables.

i've had luck with some improvement when i upgrade the audio cables.. i thought the same would hold true for video cables.

like someone said. Frank (SC) does offer a 30 money back. so i would have to be seriously unhappy to send em back.

I'm actually thinking of going with the Samsung DVD player with offers DVI output and just bypass the component cables altogether. but i haven't decided yet.

thanks guys

[LuSh]

You know its starting to really bug me that I have to defend myself every time I offer advice. I use to come here and enjoy sharing and receiving input.

Frankly, 4 years ago I would have loved somebody who gave me the straight goods. And I lucked out and did. People are so picky because I go against the grain. I go against what most forum posters post, or what the guy from Circuit City will tell you. If you don't like the advice I give don't use it. But stop with this constant in house "our club" bickering.

Why am I wrong for suggesting another DVD player? I think its a crime if somebody tells him to use different cables, its worse then telling him his DVD player could use an upgrade. If it was my own brother, father, cousin, friend, I'd tell them the exact same thing. Using boutique price cables on players found in your typical Big Box store is insane and a sure fire way to spend hi fi dollars on mid fi gear. If you feel the need to do this, then do it. If you think I'm crazy then continue what you are doing. I truely am just offering advice.

As far as the last comment about Toshiba DVD players...Toshiba makes a great consumer market DVD player which plays several DVD, CD formatts at a fair price. A person who requires higher performance from their RPTV may opt to look for a higher priced DVD player. Perhaps they can even sell their expensive cables and put that towards their new DVD player and buy cheaper cables. Sometimes its a bitter pill to swallow. I realize having a budget is hard. Taking that buget and spending it on something because what you really need/want isn't available right now is worse. Don't throw your money away, instead don't upgrade, spend it on something that will make an absolute difference. If need be hold onto your money and save for that new budget that will allow you to make a serious dent in performace.

I'm not cutting anybody system down, what I'm offering is advice, on how not to waste money. If you can't handle it, then dont reply, or perhaps just skip my post entirely. The childish in-house bickering is really starting to un-nerve me. I'm not cutting down, I'm helping grow.

[Frank Z]

I don't think that lush is knocking anyone or their equipment. If my interpretation is correct, he's telling us that he feels that adding High Dollar cables to middle of the road piece of equipment (regardless of the brand) is not going to improve the image quality enough to justify the expense. The source signal remains the same, a cable cannot improve the quality of the original signal. It's a point of diminishing return, at some point the source will need to be upgraded because the cable cannot improve on what is being delivered.

[Zero]

Change your DVD player.

The Denon 1600 can be had on the cheap now, supposed to be kick-ass, video wise.

Dont ask, just DO it.

Monster? MONSTER!? AAAAAAAAAAH!!!

[danger boy]

Lush, don't take things personally. everyone who posts in here. it's really only their opinion, nothing else. yes some people have more experience than others.

I just read what advice people offer and still make my own decision. My budget always determines what i upgrade or purchase. SO i try and spread my funds around where I think they will make the most sense. Sometimes the increase in quality is small and other times it's a huge improvement.

You all bring up good points. Frankz, i have to slightly disagree with your assesment. I DO believe that the right cable can improve the source signal that is sent to it's final destination.. maybe not by a big amount, but it could have an affect on the PQ. Just like audio IC's have an affect on the sound... so should video cables. In theory anyways.

[Frank Z]

Just stating an interpretation of a previous post thats all.

My own feeling is this, If a source (DVD Player) is providing a signal that is given a hypothetical rating of 8 on a scale of 1-10, a cable cannot increase the rating to 8.1. The original signal cannot be improved upon by adding a high end cable. A cable is simply a conductor that can and will have a resistance to the flow of electrons. This effect of this resistance, and the introduction of spurious noise can be seen/heard. A properly constructed cable, designed to carry the proper bandwidth, can help deliver the cleanest, noise free signal possible. Can it improve the original signal, no it cannot. It has no means of doing so without the introduction of another signal, or signal procesing. A cable can only allow a signal to pass, it cannot increase any of the source material. If that were possible, the inventer would be quite wealth and ther would not be a need for hi-end equipment. We could all buy lesser quality players and augment them with a "Miracle Interconnect." While I would agree that a low-end cable can and will negatively affect a signal, I cannot agree that a cable can improve upon the original, baseline signal. The best we can hope for is a clean, noise free path for the signal.

[danger boy]

frank i do agree.. you can not improve the source signal. but connectors, connections, and the wire itself used could affect the quality of the signal that reaches it's destination. that we're all in agreement here it sounds like.

I guess the best we can hope for.. is to not degrade the signal once it leaves the source player. that is what i think we all want to strive for... and that would only happen if good quality cables were used.

[Frank Z]

Originally posted by danger boy
... and that would only happen if good quality cables were used.

Now we just need to agree on what constitutes a good quality cable.....Never Happen!;)

[danger boy]

frank Z you are right. there are probably as many different cables as their are opinions on a good cable. :p

[mantis]

Ok just stop all the fighting already ok????

danger boy,

What TV do you own?The Improvement over the Monster 3's are small,using Monster M1000v will clear up alittle fuzzys around images,will give you slighty better color and alittle deeper blacks.It's very slight.Once you have a high quality video cable very small improvements are gained by better cables.If you already know I'm all about better wire.

I feel 2 a better DVD player could yield a better picture with the same cables.There a standard quality which is ok.
Once I know what TV you own I could suggest a higher quality DVD player.Then you can match it's performance with the correct level of cable.

I didn't read it was progressive???This 2 will yield a much better picture over a standard interlaced player.

Toshiba players are nice but don't always have the best possible picture on all Tv's.

Dan

[Dr. Spec]

I upgraded my component video cables from Monster Cable MV2CV with the Signal Cable brand.

The Signal Cable product is based on the Canare L-5CFB cable, and is hand-terminated with true 75 ohm RCA connectors. For more information, go here:

http://signalcable.com/component.html

I have no affiliation with Signal Cable - I personally use them because they do very high quality work, and I like to support businesses in my own state whenever I can. As an alternative, this cable can be done DIY (if you are confident in your termination abilities), or purchased from other cable vendors.

Equipment Used:

Denon DVD-2900
Hitachi 53” Ultravision 16x9 (calibrated with Avia)

Picture Resolution:

The improvement in fine detail and resolution was quite significant. The Monster product always seemed slightly out of focus in comparison.

In the opener of “Below”, every metal rivet on the airplane chassis was clearly resolved with the Signal Cable. The rivets were blurry and indistinct with the Monster. Other DVDs showed similar resolution improvements every time.

Background shots on most DVDs took on an almost liquid quality with the Signal Cable, with fine details visible everywhere and less video noise/grain.

Color:

Low light scenes showed the most improvement with the Signal Cable, with subtle blues and reds colors coming through with perfect hue. In comparison, the Monster Cable washed out colors during the dark scenes.

In addition, the Monster overemphasized greens during dark scenes, whereas the Signal Cable brought a more balanced and natural looking tan/green.

Without question though, the biggest color improvement was blue. Blues went from ho-hum to simply stunning in pureness and hue. The improvement in blues was frankly almost beyond belief for what could be expected with a cable change alone. Tough tests included Underworld (shot almost exclusively at night) - the lightning strikes, the vampire eyes, the irradiated bullets, neon lighting, the subway walls – everything blue was simply a huge improvement.

Summary:

If you can’t tell, I’m VERY excited about this cable upgrade. By any HT standard, I had a very good PQ with the Monster. But the PQ with the Signal Cable is just stunning. I honestly was not expecting such an obvious improvement in PQ and I’m generally a skeptic when it comes to these things. But I have to say, the Signal Cable (Canare L-5CFB) is truly a reference quality interconnect - it blew away the Monster Cable in every respect for about the same price. Highly recommended.

Post Summary:

There is a very good reason why I saw such a big improvement. The MV2 is NOT rated to even carry typical progressive scan frequencies (up to about 13 MHz IIRC), much less HDTV frequencies (up to 35 MHz).

The rule of thumb is to take the highest frequency you will encounter and multiply it by 4. The cable you choose must have a -3 dB rating at that frequency or higher or you will see noticeable signal degradation.

The SC is rated - 3dB (i.e., a 50% signal attenuation) at 250 MHz for a 100 foot run! It can EASILY handle both progressive scan and HDTV. MC does not publish Freq. vs. attenuation curves, but the MV3 is not rated for even progressive scan from what I have discussed with knowledgeable cable builders.

Video cables can make a HUGE difference in PQ for PROVEN scientific reasons, not hype and smoke/mirrors. LuSh is 100% correct though; a great cable cannot improve the signal, it can only minimize signal degradation. As the old saying goes....GI/GO.

Doc

[therockman]

I don't really want to open a can of worms, but YES, a cable is suppose to only pass the signal from point A to point B with no alteration. But in the real world each cable does introduce certain colorations and unique signature artifacts. Thus, the choice of cable is a very personal and significant factor in overall system performance. IMO!!!!



Rocky

[danger boy]

ok. maybe this will help. here is what i'm using. older Toshiba progressive scan player SD4700.. yeah i know it's not high end by any means.

tv i just got in Jan 2004. it's a 4:3 Zenith integrated HDTV. can display 480i/p, 720p, 1080i

using MC video 3 directly from the player.

I just thought it would look better. I think DVD's are at 480 right? so maybe i'm just expecting to much.. like i'm expecting it to look closer to HDTV and of course it won't.

What Doc wrote sounds like what i am hoping for.. maybe i'll get there, and maybe i won't till I upgrade the DVD player.

Dan, I don't think we're fighting here. i think we're having a very valid discussion... i wanted opinions and real world accounts of what other people in here have seen when they've upgraded their video cables. to me.. good clean looking video is just as important as good clean sounding audio.

No one wants to have a kick ass sound system.. and a weak looking video source. :(

[Dr. Spec]

i'm using. older Toshiba progressive scan player SD4700

The player may very well be the weak link in the system.

You can certainly upgrade the cables with the understanding that you cannot possibly improve what is coming out of the Toshiba - you can only minimize signal degradation to the maximum extent possible.

It is possible the MCV3 is "good enough" for the 4700, and you might not see much of an improvement. If you had a player with a top grade video section, I have absolutely no doubt you would see a huge improvement going from the MCV3 to the SC brand.

[ezc]

Video cables transport the signal from point a to point b. I know I dont want any loss of singal or alteration. We use & sell almost all M-1000 CV cables or Z300 (both use a silver coated center conductor). Is it overkill for some systems? maby but would you want your cables to hold you back from having the best pic your system is capable of displaying? I was using monster 300 cv on my bedroom system from my sony dvd player to a Sony wega 27". The picture now with the 1000 is sharper, deeper,& colors are more vibrant. was it worth the cost of the cables? Yes it was, beacuse there was a difference!Now I know if the pic is bad it aint my cv cable! We build m1000CV cables here for customers, our installs, & for other installers. We use monster QL M1000 ends & m1000 cables, using the QL ends there is no solder used & that also has seemed to improve the pq! On my main system I switched from my Z300cv cable to m1000cv cable (retail packaged), no improvment ( same cable is used by monster for z300 & m-1000). Than switched to M1000cv that I built here, got deeper blacks, & again a deeper image. I know the blacks are deeper (darker) calibrated with dve before change & again after change. My guess is that the pre made cables if you look at them the manufacture cuts half of the shiedling off & solders only half or less of the outer shielding to the rca. The cables we do here have a full contact of the braiding all the way around contacting the rca, which in theory should give you a better signal. In any type of wire contact you want all or as much of the wire to make contact. The M1000 rca's we use dont use solder so there is no contamination or added resistance to the connection, which should give you a better more true signal. And to top it off it costs much less than retail packaged cable. M1000cv 2 meter retail packaged $199 / M1000cv custom built 2 meter just over $110.n Exact same cable different type of m1000 rca's, one reatil packaged the other in plain zipper plastic bag.

[paymontana]

I think luSh was just trying to say "You can not launch a canon from a row boat" and I agree. I have thought about going from RS gold series to SC or BlueJean Cables but I know my Sony dvd is my weak link. Just for future reference . Are SC and BJ comparable in quality? Are BJ cables cheaper?

CJ

[Dr. Spec]

Are SC and BJ comparable in quality? Are BJ cables cheaper?

They both use either the Belden or the Canare products. The BJ website is quite detailed in this respect.

Is the build quality similar? I don't know; I've never seen a BJ product. I do know Frank's work is excellent, especially on the terminations.

Yes, the BJ is cheaper. Frank says he mustn't pay his people too well, and probably the living costs are lower in his area of that state. Frank has some pretty big bills to pay in downstate NY.

[danger boy]

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