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  1. #1

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    Default Just Witnessed A Burglary In Progress...

    I was watching TV and at 9:15 I see a purple Dodge Durango (my neighbor across the courtyards truck) pull into his garage and the garage door close. No big deal. Continue watching TV. Then I see his wifes white minvan pull up in front of the garage. No big deal. Continue watching TV. Then I hear the woman screem and run from somewhere (assuming her apartment door) into her van. She squeels the tire in each gear she's in and speeds off. Then I see someone chasing after the van. I then see a black male on the corner of the 2 garage doors (one for the upper apt, like mine). He starts walking towards the apt. and looks up at me standing in my living room with no lights, but the TV on. That kinda freaks me out, not sure if he actually saw me. He enters their apt. and leaves the door wide open.

    I'm really going..."What the eff!?" at this point.

    Then I see the garage door open and the durango pull out. The door to the apt. is still wide open and so is the garage door. There is a big screen TV sitting in the garage as well (odd, methinks).

    Then, 5 mins later...I see the SAME black guy run back from the same direction the Durango went in. He closes the garage door and takes off on foot northbound through the alley.

    I call Ellen and then she and I think it's a good idea I call the cops, despite the fact the guy might have seen me.

    Talked to the dispatcher....and then gave a statement at my apartment to a police officer. He asked me if I could I.D him at a later date. I said yes, i'd try.

    I told him i'm packing heat. Thank god I am too, cuz i'd be scared out of my mind if I didn't have that extra protection.

    I'll be sleepin' with one eye open and one in the chamber tonight.

  2. #2

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    I told him i'm packing heat. Thank god I am too, cuz i'd be scared out of my mind if I didn't have that extra protection.
    A-1, Demi. Actually, just break out the big bore and really sleep well.

    It's been said handguns are only useful for getting you from the bedroom to the gunsafe where the real firepower is kept. Couldn't agree more.

    With about 2,000 lb-ft of energy available from the standard 00 buckshot load (with little to no chance of overpenetration), who could argue different?

    Look up the word "man-stopper" in the dictionary and the Remington 870 with the riot barrel is pictured. :) 'nuff said.
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

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  3. #3

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    If Doc wasn't packing heat I'd be planning a way to take that ultra off his hands right now:D

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    Good job trying to be observant and a good witness.

    I couldn't agree more with the Doc. Handguns can get you out of a pinch and get you time to get to the big guns. However, they are concealable and that has major advantages for the citizenry, at least in free states.

    While I wouldn't hesitate to keep my Benelli 12-bore handy, I really prefer my AR-15 to be under the bed. IMHO, 55gr FMJ 5.56mm, at CQB distance, is a pretty devastating round on human targets and it is significantly safer to use indoors (penetrating walls, etc.) than all but the weakest pistol rds. not to mention 30 rds and minimal recoil.

    Wes
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    Yeah, My shotguns and rifles are still kept at my old mans house. I'm going to have to get those this weekend. I didn't plan on needing that much firepower, but in retrospect...who does?

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    If you live in an apartment area where they are getting broke into, I would leave your shotties at your dad's.

    I keep the Taurus PT99 under the bed and my Mossberg 835 with rifled slug bore in the closet. I also have a Tech22 pistol that I got when I was a teenager, I thought it looked cool with a 50 rnd clip hangin out the bottom, but otherwise, Tech guns are crap.

    Regards,
    PolkThug

  7. #7

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    55gr FMJ 5.56mm
    Ho, man. You wanna talk about a penetrator? That thing is spitting needle nose projectiles at 3200 fps. I've shot FMJ right through all sorts of barriers and varmints and it keeps right on a truckin'.

    Do yourself a huge favor and grab some softpoints or hollowpoints for the close quarter combat stuff. The only reason the military specs FMJ is the stupid Geneva convention. Otherwise they'd all be shooting softpoints for sure.

    The only FMJs that hit hard enough to be called manstoppers are the .30 cal class (like the 7.62x51 NATO). Our boys have been bitching about the stopping power of the 5.56x45 NATO FMJ since they adopted it. Head (brain) shots and direct heart shots are all that count - everything else takes a few squeezes on the loud lever before visible effects are seen.

    Unlike the 7.62 x 39 Russian FMJ our enemies favor in the SKS and AK-47 which hits hard due to its larger diameter and weight. Many of our boys want to go back to the 7.62 NATO as the standard bearer for small arms, and I can't blame them. If I was in combat, I want to be near the guy manning the SAW in 7.62. That suckers got some stopping power.
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

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    I use Federal Hydra-Shok Jacketed Hollow Points.

  9. #9

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    Nothing but CorBon +P JHP in the SIGs over here.
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

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  10. #10

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    Spec...I'm kinda paranoid right now. I hate admitting this, but I don't know what to say. I've always been a precautionary guy, but it seems to be getting the best of me.

    I grew up in a Suburban neighborhood. Maybe that has a little to do with it. My truck was vandalized when I was 16. Had all my **** stolen. That was a lot of money then.

    I've seen the occasional gang fights, and now this burglary. It seems to be going downhill. I bought my first handgun this past January. So I guess I was trying to protect myself from the worst. I bought it with the intention of never having to use it for what I thought I might need it for. I mean i'm an avid hunter and stuff, but I don't need my handgun for that.

    I still don't know how I would react in a situation where I needed it. I mean. I'd pull the trigger till I was empty most likely. Don't know yet. Don't really want to know.

    Is how i'm feeling right now normal or what? I live in an upper apt. The only entrance to my place is through my front door which is down a flight of stairs. There is a patio door, but you'd need a ladder to access it. I also lock my bedroom door at night as well. I keep my pistol in my case under my bed unlocked at night. It's fully loaded with a 15 round mag. I don't keep one in the chamber, but I have been lately.

    I really think i'm just being paranoid, but hey...my neighbors DID get robbed at 9PM on a wednesday night.....That could have been me. If it was that guy would most likely be dead right now. Not sure how i'd handle that either. I've heard all kinds of horror stories about people that have killed intruders.

    :(

    help!

  11. #11

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    Time to move dude!
    'Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

  12. #12

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    Originally posted by F1nut
    Time to move dude!
    Yeah, but I live just outside of Milwaukee. Not even in the city. This isn't exactly NY, L.A, or Chicago.

    It's just a few thugs terrorizing the neighborhood. It's working too. It's obviously screwing me up.

    Unfortunately I can't move till August. Lease isn't up till then and my new roommates' lease isn't up till then either. Kinda S.O.L in that regard.

    The more I think about this the more pissed off I get at our judicial system. Law is way too lax for bastards like this. Makes me kinda wish the scenario I play in my head from time to time works itself out and I execute some real swift justice on this *******.

    From the rumblings i've heard by having my window open....one of my neighboors downstairs had someone try to break in 2 times. He could tell because he's been putting crap by his patio door for just that reason and it's been getting moved. He's heard it too. Maybe i'll take pictures at some point and explain how this all looks. Maybe I can get better suggestions on how to best ride out the next 3 1\2 months.

    *sigh*

  13. #13

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    Pit Bull ?

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    Unless you're a sociopath, no one would relish even a self defense shooting.

    Most states allow the use of deadly force to protect property, but not all states. All states allow the use of DF to protect one's own life or the life of a third party normally under your mantle of protetion (i.e., family member).

    Two books I HIGHLY recommend are "In the Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoob, and "In Self Defense", by Mike Izumi. The latter in particular discusses the legal aftermath of a shooting and the possibility of a civil lawsuit. Even the most righteous self defense shooting can destroy the survivor's life.

    If a handgun is your weapon of choice for self defense, practice with it regularly. Practice at self defense distances on man shaped targets. Practice at awkward angles that simulate a real break in where you might be awakened from a deep sleep and you are lying in bed.

    Keep a small high quality flashlight (like a Surefire Executive Defender), a cell phone, a small bat, a large combat knife, a large can of pepper spray (or a small fire extinguisher) and your firearm all in the same area. Understand the concept of escalation of force and realize that not all situations warrant the use of DF. Give yourself as many tools as you can.

    Realize that suddenly turning on the room lights will blind you and expose your position. You will be groggy. You will have trouble functioning. You will need to clearly identify a deadly threat before you use deadly force. The Surefire will BLIND an intruder temporarily without blinding you and can be a last ditch impact weapon. Pepperspray or the FE will DETER many intruders. A bat will often DETER an unarmed intruder. A combat knife can be a effective CQ back-up in the event your handgun is dropped or jams.

    If you fire a handgun gun in the house, you can expect permanent hearing damage. Many serious self defense practioners keep electronic muffs to amplify quiet sounds and protect their hearing.

    Many hardened criminals have had hanguns pointed at them. They do not fear handguns. They fear the RESOLUTE person behind the handgun. Body language will convey confidence, experience, and resolve......or it will convey fear and indecision. Criminals can smell the latter a mile away.

    A 12 gauge shotgun with a smooth bore 20" open sight deer barrel stoked with #1 to #00 buckshot is THE most effective close range defense firearm available to the civilian. Looking down the business end of a 12 gauge stops even hardened criminals in their tracks like no puny 9 mm ever would. Most intruders turn tail at the sight of that 0.72" black hole; I should know, I've been there TWICE and that's exactly what happened each time. I pray to GOD I never have to pull the trigger, but if I do, near instant incapacitation will result in a way a handgun cannot ever hope to duplicate. And you only need to fire once, which goes well for you in the legal aftermath. Criminals on PCP have soaked up a DOZEN or more rounds from a 9 mm before showing visible effects, and remain a VIABLE THREAT in the interim. There is no substitute for firepower and deposited energy. If you switch to the shotgun, pick up and study "Combat Shotgun", also by Ayoob.

    Finally, a dog is the best early warning system and deterrant you could ask for, and a house alarm does a grand job too. Your best bet is to prevent a break in from ever occurring in the first place.

    Doc
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    Even signs indicating that your apartment is protected by electronic monitoring are cheap and can be effective. Burglars want sure things.

  16. #16

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    Originally posted by Dr. Spec
    Unless you're a sociopath, no one would relish even a self defense shooting.
    Indeed. You often have to wonder about those that want to be victimized in order to kill the person. In all honesty i've thought about it in terms of wanting to get the scum off the street. The cops in this instance seemed a little inept. The police station is 2 blocks up the road on the same side of the street as we are....It took them like 10-15 mins just to show up...


    Originally posted by Dr. Spec
    Most states allow the use of deadly force to protect property, but not all states. All states allow the use of DF to protect one's own life or the life of a third party normally under your mantle of protetion (i.e., family member).
    How can I find out for my state? It's pathetically hard to find any info on this stuff in an organized fashion.

    Originally posted by Dr. Spec

    If a handgun is your weapon of choice for self defense, practice with it regularly. Practice at self defense distances on man shaped targets. Practice at awkward angles that simulate a real break in where you might be awakened from a deep sleep and you are lying in bed.
    It's not my weapon of choice, it's the one I have right now. I should go get my shotgun. I do practice a lot. I always shoot at the silouette targets. Doesn't make any sense to shoot at circles. You're not going to be robbed by circles. I practice 2 to the chest one to the head drills.


    Originally posted by Dr. Spec
    Keep a small high quality flashlight (like a Surefire Executive Defender), a cell phone, a small bat, a large combat knife, a large can of pepper spray (or a small fire extinguisher) and your firearm all in the same area. Understand the concept of escalation of force and realize that not all situations warrant the use of DF. Give yourself as many tools as you can.
    Yeah. I really don't have any of that stuff. I'm not really busting at the seams with cash right now. I'll have to figure out whats most important. I'm thinking the surefire would be the best. Better yet would be making my shotgun tactical and putting the surefire on the gun.


    Originally posted by Dr. Spec
    Realize that suddenly turning on the room lights will blind you and expose your position. You will be groggy. You will have trouble functioning. You will need to clearly identify a deadly threat before you use deadly force. The Surefire will BLIND an intruder temporarily without blinding you and can be a last ditch impact weapon. Pepperspray or the FE will DETER many intruders. A bat will often DETER an unarmed intruder. A combat knife can be a effective CQ back-up in the event your handgun is dropped or jams.
    Yeah, i've thought about all that. The big problem is you don't know how it will go down.

    Originally posted by Dr. Spec
    If you fire a handgun gun in the house, you can expect permanent hearing damage. Many serious self defense practioners keep electronic muffs to amplify quiet sounds and protect their hearing.
    Something to think about.

    Originally posted by Dr. Spec

    Many hardened criminals have had hanguns pointed at them. They do not fear handguns. They fear the RESOLUTE person behind the handgun. Body language will convey confidence, experience, and resolve......or it will convey fear and indecision. Criminals can smell the latter a mile away.
    Yeah. I know I won't have a problem pulling the trigger if I have to. I've been able to clear my mind of emotional nonsense and think with a clear head when need be.


    Originally posted by Dr. Spec

    Finally, a dog is the best early warning system and deterrant you could ask for, and a house alarm does a grand job too. Your best bet is to prevent a break in from ever occurring in the first place.

    Doc
    Wish I could get a dog. Just not fessible right now. The future wife and I plan on getting a Golden Retriever and a Siberian Husky. I can't bring myself to get them until I have a wide open are for the Husky to run in.

  17. #17

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    I have a Husky mix and they do need some room but the Golden will need more exercise than the Husky and of course the Golden will be good in home protection as they're a natural at licking their quarry to death.

  18. #18

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    Thumbs up

    Dr. Spec hit it right. I'm just add some hopefully useful info to along with what he said. (I'd still rather have my AR though!;)) Handguns are piss-poor except for the concealability. Not trying to sound like I think I'm "invincible" but unless I get hit in the head, I'm not really too worried about getting shot by BG with a handgun.

    Another book I can recommend is "Gun Laws of America." I have "The Arizona Gun Owner's Guide" from the same author and press, Bloomfield. Also check out http://www.packing.org for a lot of useful info. Unfortunately, WI doesn't have concealed carry. :( Also, "Surgical Speed Shooting" by Andy Stanford is a great book that focuses on techniques to gain speed and accuracy. Highly recommended as well for the pure mechanics side of things.

    Right now, SureFire is making a polymer series of ther 6V lights called the Nitrolon G2. In most places you can get them for $30-40. I know that sounds pricey, but considering a big Maglite will cost close to $30 with vastly inferior light, a small SureFire G2 is a no-brainer. Those things are BRIGHT!!! I carry two with me everywhere I go. Do a search for Botach Tactical or ASPI Tactical for a couple of places that usually have good prices on SureFire gear. In another group I participate in, there is an ongoing debate that raises its head every so often about firearms-mounted lights. If cash is tight, then don't worry about it.

    Get some FoxLabs pepper spray. It is the strongest stuff out there. I'd recommend a fog pattern. Less precision is needed on your part which is a good thing for SHTF. http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com has the full selection of FoxLabs gear.

    Finally, I can't emphsize enough to get you mindset right. You WILL win the fight. You WILL stop/prevent the bad guy from doing bad things. Your #1 priority is to SURVIVE! If you are worried about getting sued in court, your mind is in the wrong place and you might DIE. Here are some cliches, that may seem cheesey but are true enough:

    It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
    Always win; always cheat.
    The only fair fight is the fight you lose.
    Mindset, Tactics, Skill, Equipment (in order of importance)

    I could go on and on with cliches, but the fact is mindset is the most important thing. In your mind, practice going through situations that may encounter on a daily basis. Regardless of the situation, make sure you ALWAYS WIN. This reinforces your survival instincts and your will and resolve. In your mind, you should be invincible, however, be prepared for bad things like your pistol jamming or dropping your knife, and run through scenarios where you have to use your back-up. YOU ALWAYS WIN!

    Wes
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  19. #19

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    Let me ask you guys this. An intruder is standing in your livingroom, you have your shotgun ready and pointed at him. What do you do then, legally?

    For example you tell him to leave and he stands there or maybe he heads towards you. When has he crossed the line and become a threat to your life?
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  20. #20

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    Originally posted by madmax
    Let me ask you guys this. An intruder is standing in your livingroom, you have your shotgun ready and pointed at him. What do you do then, legally?

    For example you tell him to leave and he stands there or maybe he heads towards you. When has he crossed the line and become a threat to your life?
    You also have to realize that he's a criminal though. If you let him leave when he knows you're armed and he's whacked enough...he may come back just to kill you. Ususally not the case, but it can happen.

    Someone I know killed 3 gang bangers while he and his girlfriend were coming back from dinner. They tried blocking them off with a van in an unlit parking garage. He killed all 3 with 2 to the chest one to the head. He killed them after they starting reaching for what he thought to be weapons.

    Since them he's been chased all over many states because he killed 3 members of a gang and they weren't happy about it. He is alive though, but justice isn't always on your side, unfortunately. It ended up costing him about $16,000/bad guy. Despite all that I think what to do in situations like that is a no brainer. Shoot first and ask questions later when your life is in danger.

    Never say anything to the cops. Anything you say is a mark on you and nobody else. The dead can't say what happened. Only you can. Even if you're 100% in the right. Your words can be twisted by a lawyer to make you out to be the bad guy. Amazing how that works. ALWAYS wait for an attny and say nothing. Most cops know not to press a self defender and are ok with you not really talking. If they do press you say nothing. Just cooperate with the movements they want you to make.

    As far as what to do in the above situation. It all depends on your state. Here in WI, upon further review, I have read that I have the right to use deadly force on anyone who has trespassed on my private property. It is different in every state.

    For example, in Tejas, you can shoot and kill a person robbing your neighbor...like happened to me.

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    What do you say to the cop that is questioning you about something that MAY get you in trouble?

    NOTHING!

    Why? Because as my cop friend advised me "You might say something stupid".

    Say you want to talk to your lawyer first. It's that simple.

    My $0.02

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